Do people favour the Champions League style of 8 groups of 4 teams going
forward???Or do the provincial championships still have a place in the future
of the GAA???

The present system actually disadvantages the provincial champions.One slip
up in the Quarter Final and your gone while a team beaten much earlier can take
your place and march on???Ive always found that to be the great flaw or the Qualifier
system.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 10/08/2015 15:58:34    1767379

To answer the question, yes.

But the format - lots of debate, we don't seem to be getting anywhere.

Colm Parkinson had a good idea on Newstalk's 'Off the Ball'. He said poll all GPA players asking if they are happy with the current format. If you get > 51% saying 'no' then invite suggestions.

To be fair to him, he used to act the maggott but talks a hell of a lot of sense these days.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 10/08/2015 16:03:01    1767382

I don't really see enough advantages in the 'Champions league format'. The current championship is admittedly imbalanced, but realistically you would still have the best teams winning their group games quite easily before things get tougher from quarters on with a seeded group system. Is there a big difference between that and the current situation of certain teams strolling through the provinces before the going gets tough? All it would really achieve is giving the smaller county's players less to play for by taking away the possibility of them winning a provincial medal.

Hank_Scorpio (Meath) - Posts: 60 - 10/08/2015 16:17:38    1767397

I think the whole current inter-county structure is not quite right. There should not be 2 separate inter county competitions (the league and championship), a revamped Championship should be all there is. There has always been far more league matches than championship matches yet most regard the League as nothing more than warm up for the Championship. Most inter county teams train many nights a week for a few serious games. To me this does not make sense. Also the way the way the whole inter-county League/ Championship season is run Club championships are disrupted due to the long nature of it.
To me also something has never seemed right about the qualifier system since it was brought in. Its not one thing or the other. Describing it to non Irish people you tell them it is a knockout competition sort-of. I remember when it came in nobody saw it as a long term competition structure for the Championship but rather a temporary competition structure which would soon be replaced by a more comprehensive revamp of the championship.
I would like to see some format where there is a pool structure followed by a knockout phase as happens with many sporting competitions over the world (And most GAA county club championships).
I have to say I enjoy the fact that with the provincial championships most matches are a relatively short drive. I would be unlightly to drive up to a game in Belfast if Meath were playing Antrim but I would defiantly drive to Dr. Cullen Park if Meath were playing Carlow in the championship. Also playing a neighbouring county defiantly makes winning more satisfying and losing more stinging so in that way it is also good so if the Championships are restructured I hope they will have some form of Provincial/ regional element at the pool stages (maybe revamp the provincial/ regional championships so that each province/ region has 8 counties ?) followed by a provincial/ regional final and then the All Ireland series ?

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1347 - 10/08/2015 17:53:53    1767492

Of course it's run it's course. When Donegal are playing their 6th game, Tyrone their 6th, Monaghan their 4th and Mayo their 3rd at the same point in the Championship something's wrong.

4 groups of 8 or 8 groups of 4 with a Champions League type format, seeded, is the only way to go.

opa01 (Cavan) - Posts: 502 - 10/08/2015 18:11:43    1767505

Yes get rid of them . We played six matches and only arrived at the Q final.


Yes for equality .

TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 10/08/2015 18:18:35    1767508

I think scrapping the provincial championships for a champions league format would be a mistake. The regional aspect of the provincial and the traditional rivalries provide more interest to the early stages of the championship than would otherwise be there. They have a big problem in that they are too drawn out. They should take a max of 7 weeks to run off, giving plenty of break weeks and time for replays.

I think the qualifiers are an ok system, although they could be made more fair.

I think Munster and Leinster are good with their seeding system. The weaker teams have more winnable matches in the first round to get a shot at the stronger teams. I think Connacht would be better with this seeding too.

Ulster has a number of tight games every year, and is probably the more interesting of the provinces. It's probably the most hard done to with regards the qualifiers.

I'd like the league to be played alongside the championship. If a team gets knocked out early they still have league games that can provide good competition for them. For the weaker counties the League is arguably the most important competition it should be played as part of the summer season. I think the league would benefit from an improved profile by no longer being a pre-season competition. It'd reduce the length of the season meaning the players don't have to train as much as they do. The training to matches ratio of the GAA is really ridiculous.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4223 - 10/08/2015 18:23:21    1767512

opa01
County: Cavan
Posts: 337

1767505
Of course it's run it's course. When Donegal are playing their 6th game, Tyrone their 6th, Monaghan their 4th and Mayo their 3rd at the same point in the Championship something's wrong.

4 groups of 8 or 8 groups of 4 with a Champions League type format, seeded, is the only way to go.


Both those formats would make for a really boring championship. There'd be 48 matches altogether I'd say every div 1 vs div 3 or 4 game would be an absolute drubbing, every division 2 vs division 4 game a drubbing. A lot of the division 1 vs division 2 games and division 2 vs division 3 games the same. The division 3 versus 4 games would probably be competitive but also probably largely meaningless in terms of teams qualifying from their group. You're probably going to be left with at most 8 interesting games in the whole first round. At least the provincials have local rivalries. Plus the teams are playing for a trophy.

Tyrone played so many games because they lost their first round match, I think the system is good in that a team losing early has to win more games than a provincial champion to get to the same round. Donegal are more unlucky in that they won 4 hard matches to get to the quarters whereas Mayo won 1 hard match to get there. The current system is not fair to Ulster but a champions league style would be terrible entertainment wise.

There are formats that would make things a little better but they are tricky to implement. The provincial championships can't get played too early and then there also has to be time left at the end of the season for the club championship.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4223 - 10/08/2015 18:54:18    1767540

10/08/2015 15:58:34 REDANDBLACK30
Do people favour the Champions League style of 8 groups of 4 teams going forward???Or do the provincial championships still have a place in the future of the GAA???
The present system actually disadvantages the provincial champions.One slip up in the Quarter Final and your gone while a team beaten much earlier can take your place and march on???Ive always found that to be the great flaw or the Qualifier system. I think the whole structure needs to be looked at. The league and championship should be played at the same time with organised, definite breaks to allow clubs access to county players for club championship games. And a proper off season for all.
10/08/2015 16:17:38 Hank_Scorpio
I don't really see enough advantages in the 'Champions league format'. The current championship is admittedly imbalanced, but realistically you would still have the best teams winning their group games quite easily before things get tougher from quarters on with a seeded group system. Is there a big difference between that and the current situation of certain teams strolling through the provinces before the going gets tough? All it would really achieve is giving the smaller county's players less to play for by taking away the possibility of them winning a provincial medal. Having a champions league format doesn't mean you get rid of the provincial cups.
10/08/2015 18:11:4 opa01
Of course it's run it's course. When Donegal are playing their 6th game, Tyrone their 6th, Monaghan their 4th and Mayo their 3rd at the same point in the Championship something's wrong.
4 groups of 8 or 8 groups of 4 with a Champions League type format, seeded, is the only way to go. 4 groups of 8 for championship wouldnt work.
10/08/2015 18:23:21 Whammo86
I'd like the league to be played alongside the championship. If a team gets knocked out early they still have league games that can provide good competition for them. For the weaker counties the League is arguably the most important competition it should be played as part of the summer season. I think the league would benefit from an improved profile by no longer being a pre-season competition. It'd reduce the length of the season meaning the players don't have to train as much as they do. The training to matches ratio of the GAA is really ridiculous. this is spot on and by combining the two there would be more time for club games and a proper off season

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 10/08/2015 19:12:04    1767560

Ormond

If they were to be retained along with the league and the new championship you would just exacerbate the current fixtures problem and club players would be lucky if their games were played off by christmas.

I'm not against the idea of new a championship structure but many of the proposals thrown about after every hammering this year don't really have any merit. People seem to be obsessed with finding a new format that will solve all of gaelic footballs problems whereas I think it's actually more important to look at why standards are slipping in so many counties, including my own.

There will never be, nor has there ever been, a situation where all counties compete on a level playing but leinster and connacht in particular have rarely been so uncompetitive.

Hank_Scorpio (Meath) - Posts: 60 - 10/08/2015 20:11:08    1767608

In a word Yes. Time to get rid.

Barnowl94 (Galway) - Posts: 3150 - 10/08/2015 20:18:39    1767610

10/08/2015 20:11:08
Hank_Scorpio
Ormond If they were to be retained along with the league and the new championship you would just exacerbate the current fixtures problem and club players would be lucky if their games were played off by christmas.
I'm not against the idea of new a championship structure but many of the proposals thrown about after every hammering this year don't really have any merit. People seem to be obsessed with finding a new format that will solve all of gaelic footballs problems whereas I think it's actually more important to look at why standards are slipping in so many counties, including my own.
There will never be, nor has there ever been, a situation where all counties compete on a level playing but leinster and connacht in particular have rarely been so uncompetitive. it wouldn't exacerbate the problem if done right. Games could double up. You make punishments for counties acting the maggot around club games much more severe etc
People have been looking at problems down the years but they constantly come back to championship structure as that's a major problem with gaelic football.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 10/08/2015 20:23:25    1767620

Every year, the 32 children in the classroom on the fourth floor had a race to the far end of the schoolyard.

The 4 best students (we'll call them 'the provincial champions') were allowed to take the lift to the start line. The remaining 28 had to take the 'back door' route and shimmy down a rope to ground level.

All 4 provincial champions made it safely to the start line. Of the 28 back door contestants, 4 arrived at the start having recovered from an initial upset; 24 broke their legs sliding down the rope, were taken away in a fleet of ambulances and were out of action for the rest of the year.

The race among the surviving 8 went ahead; some years the winner was a provincial champion; other years a back door contestant.

The children were asked which was the more advantageous route to take if you wanted to win the race. All replied 'the provincial champion route'.

Ah! From the mouths of babes...

tommy58 (Dublin) - Posts: 169 - 10/08/2015 21:26:13    1767681

A doctor treated 32 patients. He gave the provincial champion treatment to 4 patients and they all thrived. He gave the back door treatment to 28. Of these, 24 died; 4 recovered and some of them actually enjoyed better health than some of the provincial champions.

Based on his experience, the doctor submitted a paper to a medical journal. In it, he advised his peers to ignore the 24 corpses and concentrate on the 4 surviving back door patients. Their experience proved, he said, that there was no advantage in the provincial champion treatment.

When summoned to a fitness-to-practice inquiry, he was asked 'What if, instead of 24 corpses, there were 124 or 1024. How many would he need to see before conceding that the provincial champion treatment was far better. '

tommy58 (Dublin) - Posts: 169 - 10/08/2015 21:44:39    1767705

There's still a place for the provincial championships. Smart ideas like the one Kelly and McGuinness had are the way to move forward.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7842 - 10/08/2015 21:55:55    1767724

Remove the provincial championships and you remove FOUR cups in football and TWO in Hurling. You remove the objective many so called lesser counties have of silverware. To put it this way Sligo can aim to win a Connacht title, remove that and they will never win a senior title again.

I would keep them but not in the current format. Maybe an east/west/north/south championship with equal number of teams. It really is a double edged sword. A champions league style format will have the top teams seeded anyway so you will still have cannon fodder matches.

Sometimes I wish the back door never came in and you just had straight knock out. Run the league along side the championship.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11230 - 11/08/2015 09:40:18    1767771

There is no doubt that something needs to be done with the football championship, the big problem is what to do or how to do it. The most common call is for a 'champions league' format of 8x4 or 4x8 groups. the problem with this, as Whammo86 has already pointed out, is that after the initial year or two of unique pairings that catch the eye and draw a crowd, the problem will remain that the top seeds in almost every one of the proposed 8 groups will hammer the 3rd and 4th seeds every time, and quiet possibly beat most of the second seeds easily too.
Of all the many proposals mooted over the last year or two I think Jim Mc Guinness's idea is perhaps the best. It retains the provincial championships, rewards consistency in the league, and then divides into 2 competitions late in the Summer that the teams performances over the course of the year has earned them.
One of the biggest obstacles to any change however is breaking the control of the Provincial councils over fixtures and more importantly the revenue created by the provicial championships, and as things stand this is highly unlikely.
It is also interesting to note that while a lot of Ulster posters on this thread are in favour of a change to the structures, it is the Ulster championship that most view as the most successful currently and is viewed as the one Council that would fight hardest to retain the status quo.

AHP (Dublin) - Posts: 323 - 11/08/2015 13:14:55    1768012

Sligo and Cork each won only one game this year and reached the 4th round of the qualifiers.

crikey (Australia) - Posts: 355 - 11/08/2015 15:31:09    1768153

Being a traditionalist, I'd like the provs retained within the Run for Sam (and Liam).
However, a Champs Playoff round would strengthen the fronr door, and with only 2 unbeaten champs to the AI QFs, neutralises more tha prov imbalance.
Have Qual Rd 1 teams play 4 rds for the TMC Cup and 1 AI QF berth.
Prov losers of 8, 4, 2 and initial TMC Cup losers of 8, 4 enter last chance Qual Rds 2, 3, 4 with quantities of 16, 16, 10.
5 Rd 4 winners complete the AI QF lineup.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2584 - 16/08/2015 20:58:30    1771112

NO
I FOR ONE DONT WANT TO LOOSE THE ULSTER CHAMPIONSHIP AND ID SAY I HAVE A LOT OF SUPPORT ON THAT ONE.
IF THE OTHER PROVINCES WANT TODO AWAY WITH THEIRS THEN WITH 33TEAMS STARTING OFF MINUS NINE ULSTER COUNTIES AND YOU GET TWENTY FOUR
SIX GROUPS OF FOUR , WINNERS FROM EACH PLUS ULSTER FINALISTS AND YOU HAVE THE Q FINALS
BUT LEAVE THE ULSTER CHAMPIONSHIP ALONE

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 16/08/2015 21:43:01    1771147