What do you all think of the GPA's Champions League idea - 8 groups of 4, with the top 3 from each going to the AI Last 24 ?

I feel it's a lot of group matches - 48 to be precise - to reduce the field to a KO of 24.
Also, it seems you have to just beat the Div 4 team and you're in - I can see a lot of mismatches and dead rubbers.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2573 - 10/07/2015 20:26:03    1751228

10/07/2015 20:26:03
omahant
What do you all think of the GPA's Champions League idea - 8 groups of 4, with the top 3 from each going to the AI Last 24 ?
I feel it's a lot of group matches - 48 to be precise - to reduce the field to a KO of 24.
Also, it seems you have to just beat the Div 4 team and you're in - I can see a lot of mismatches and dead rubbers. But what is wrong with counties getting guaranteed 3 games and then most getting into next stage of main competition?
It isn't as simple as saying just beat division 4 side to qualify... no way will most groups follow seeding...

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 10/07/2015 20:46:21    1751233

Are they proposing this format just for football, or is there a similar format proposal for hurling as well? I'd actually think hurling needs to get away from the provincial format, more than football

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 10/07/2015 21:02:03    1751235

Unfortunately in the current format we see terrible hidings all the time. Sure Tipp would hardly be considered Munster Kingpins and they murdered Waterford by 20 odd points.

Teams will only get to grips with playing the better opposition if they play them more often. Brazil were once feared in the soccer, now all their best players play in Europe. The fear factor isn't there anymore. European players play against them all the time.

By not playing against better teams, you are hardly gonna improve.

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 10/07/2015 21:12:47    1751239

Spot on JayP.

Hidings are inevitable for the so- called weaker counties from the so-called stronger counties. But they can learn from those defeats. And they can improve by beating the teams from the League division up from them to gain confidence.

I think the current league structure doesn't help though. Keeps the strong stronger and the weak weaker. There's not the interest in winning the league there was 20 years ago. Should have 4 leagues of 4x 2 teams from each of the current divisions so counties get more accustomed to playing teams of a higher standard. Staying on the Division 3 and 4 merry ground with the odd qualifier win helps none of these counties. Forget about having League champions for each division and concentrate on improving the overall standard of football.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7337 - 11/07/2015 09:56:10    1751282

Stupid proposal. They want to run off provincial championships in late spring and make them have absolutely no bearing on the All Ireland, what's the point of that?? You might as well get rid of them entirely.

The vast majority of players and (I suspect) supporters want to retain the provincial championships.

Best idea yet was Jimmy Mac's to integrate the provincial competitions with a restructured All Ireland and reward team who do well in provinces. That's the way forward....

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 11/07/2015 10:50:54    1751299

Very well said The Hermit. Whilst the championship needs reform to make it more equitable it cannot continue without the provincial championships at it's core. People are calling for a Champions League format but the Champions League is nothing more than a boring procession until the quarter finals are reached. The people of Sligo, Westmeath, Monaghan and Donegal have provincial finals to look forward to . Cork and Kerry showed last week what provincial finals are about. Under the Champions League format there can only be one winner each season .. Under the provincial system there are five winners each season . The idea of running the provincial championships off seperately would reduce them to the level of the O Byrne Cup . Jim McGuinness and Eugene McGee put forward far better proposals .

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 11/07/2015 11:14:34    1751311

The provinces could get separate sponsors for each competition separate from the All Ireland.

Provincials are not the same after 2000, counties can settle for the back door. Some provincial winners now can be at a disadvantage waiting a few weeks for their Q/F against a team who played the week before and had momentum and sharpness through the back door.

Not too sure about the GPA proposal either, won't really help weaker counties. But knockout provincial championships should bring more intensity than current with a backdoor or next round in province. Then an open draw All Ireland football championship rather than the All Ireland football competition with a second chance so it looks like we're doing something to improve the standard of football in all counties.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7337 - 11/07/2015 11:17:42    1751312

Jimmy's proposal was deffo the best and needs to go forward to congress.

Really disappointed with the GPA's proposal. Basically they want more games but turn the provincials into the mckenna cup for importance.

If they didnt want to go down Jim McGuinness's plan they could still revamp the provincial championship slightly without destroying tradition and get to four eights in each province link

shaggykev (Donegal) - Posts: 187 - 11/07/2015 11:26:29    1751313

Too many games, club football will all but disappear or else county players will go professional and not play for the club again. The current system doesn't really work, I think that the backdoor system should be scrapped, at the end of the day majority of AllIreland semi finals involve the 4 provincial champions, a large amount of games just to end up with the same result, maybe it's time to revert back to the old system, a knockout system, if you lose you are out. Maybe allow the beaten provincial finalists into a quarter final such as this year I think it's Ulster v Munster and Leinster v Connacht so if the bookies are right you would have Donegal as provincial winners v Cork beaten finalists and Kerry v Monaghan, Dublin v Sligo and Mayo v Westmeath all played over the August bank holiday weekend, 2 games on Saturday and 2 on Sunday. The beaten teams in the provincial championships should the be put into a B champ in a group system maybe 8 groups of 3 teams with the final played on Saturday the day before the AllIreland final maybe a 7pm game either in Croke Park or a neutral provincial venue. The reason for 3 teams in each group is the date the provincial semi results are known. If they don't want to play that's their choice but should lose home advantage in next years champ. We hear this argument that weak county need more games and others wouldn't want to play in a B champ well their argument is disgraceful, any person should be proud to wear the county jersey whatever cup you are playing for, a better chance for weaker teams to progress and push on for the next season. We hear complaints that Dublin are too strong for Leinster but the backdoor system is an excuse for the other 10 Leinster counties to muddle along and hopefully do well in the qualifiers and make it to the AllIreland quarterfinals, if only 1 or 2 Leinster teams had a genuine chance of getting out of Leinster then it would give the rest of the counties a kick in the backside to sort out their counties, training, methods and their underage system

riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1389 - 11/07/2015 12:14:56    1751322

11/07/2015 12:14:56 riverboys
Too many games, club football will all but disappear or else county players will go professional and not play for the club again. The current system doesn't really work, I think that the backdoor system should be scrapped, at the end of the day majority of AllIreland semi finals involve the 4 provincial champions, a large amount of games just to end up with the same result, maybe it's time to revert back to the old system, a knockout system, if you lose you are out. Maybe allow the beaten provincial finalists into a quarter final such as this year I think it's Ulster v Munster and Leinster v Connacht so if the bookies are right you would have Donegal as provincial winners v Cork beaten finalists and Kerry v Monaghan, Dublin v Sligo and Mayo v Westmeath all played over the August bank holiday weekend, 2 games on Saturday and 2 on Sunday. The beaten teams in the provincial championships should the be put into a B champ in a group system maybe 8 groups of 3 teams with the final played on Saturday the day before the AllIreland final maybe a 7pm game either in Croke Park or a neutral provincial venue. The reason for 3 teams in each group is the date the provincial semi results are known. If they don't want to play that's their choice but should lose home advantage in next years champ. We hear this argument that weak county need more games and others wouldn't want to play in a B champ well their argument is disgraceful, any person should be proud to wear the county jersey whatever cup you are playing for, a better chance for weaker teams to progress and push on for the next season. We hear complaints that Dublin are too strong for Leinster but the backdoor system is an excuse for the other 10 Leinster counties to muddle along and hopefully do well in the qualifiers and make it to the AllIreland quarterfinals, if only 1 or 2 Leinster teams had a genuine chance of getting out of Leinster then it would give the rest of the counties a kick in the backside to sort out their counties, training, methods and their underage system Club football wouldn't all but disappear. counties and clubs would just have to work together much more efficiently to get club games played more regularly.
The GAA will never go back to the old straight knockout competition for money reasons, because it means less games which means less coverage which means other sports have more coverage/time in the limelight
simply straight knockout with all sides not in provincial finals in groups of 3 wont work...

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 11/07/2015 13:00:22    1751331

jim mcguiness did..not sure about mcgee..his review comittee was a bit of a shambles

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 11/07/2015 13:19:51    1751336

Forget the B, or Intermediate championship as some call it. Try and find ways of bettering the standard of the so-called weaker counties. The GAA sold a pup when they gave the great 'incentive' to weaker counties of guaranteeing them two championship games. For many that meant just a defeat in their province and once again in the back door early rounds. Fermanagh and Wexford benefitted from the back door and Sligo and Limerick to a lesser extent but it hasn't improved their consistency in league and championship since 2001. It benefits the stronger counties more.
Weaker counties need to be playing teams of a higher standard from the start of the year and not just in the summer to aim to improve. Being condescended by the likes of Kevin McStay and him banging on about a B championship keeps the rich rich and the poor poorer.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7337 - 11/07/2015 13:29:41    1751337

Jim McGuinnesses idea was better.

there were no negatives to his idea and lots of positives.

uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 11/07/2015 13:42:34    1751342

Riverboys your opposition to the Sky deal on another thread and now your latest post on this thread suggests you really need to move with the times and realise that people want to watch more matches on TV and players want to play more matches and that going back to the old days would be a catastrophic move for the GAA.

uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 11/07/2015 13:45:37    1751345

Jim McGuinness's proposal is by far the best so far. The Champions League format is over rated and the early rounds are boring.

lilywhite1 (Kildare) - Posts: 2989 - 11/07/2015 14:01:31    1751347

The Sean Kelly idea that McGuinness has more or less copied is the option I agree with.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7827 - 11/07/2015 14:56:28    1751358

fabio Eugene McGee's review committee did a great job and were a long, long way from being a shambles. They did a terrific job in getting some of their proposals through Congress . Congress is the problem . It is a serious impediment to progress in our games .

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 11/07/2015 15:38:21    1751382

Greengrass
Indeed I think that Congress/central council is akin to the politburo of the Chinese communist party.

lilywhite1 (Kildare) - Posts: 2989 - 11/07/2015 17:05:46    1751442

And how well have offaly done in the qualifiers

riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1389 - 11/07/2015 17:36:29    1751454