Ok i could be called reactionary after the last two weekends. Hammered by dublin and hammered by waterford.

But in my defense i think i have the right to be down hearted.

What has happened to the rebels over the years. One thing you could always be promised is that the players in the blood and bandage would always leave it all on the field. Where has that gone. The heart and fight seems to be gone. Over the last 10 years the game has changed. Tactics have become a vital part of the game and our management teams dont seem to have the answers. The reality is we all knew what we were going to face on sunday but simply had no answer to a superior drilled team. Waterford were great they had a plan and executed it clinically and played some lovely hurling doing it and our line simply had no answers. It was the same the previous week against dublin. Were going into big games clueless with no plan A never mind B/C.

Its frustrating as a supported when we watch our beloved cork being well beaten year after year. 10 years since we won an all ireland hurling title. We certainly are not in the glorious position that we can not take a national title seriously. But i dont think we didnt take it seriously i just dont think we have a management team with the tactical knowledge to switch things around. I mean were going into a game against waterford and being honest on a dry day i would imagine they would have been even better. Who else fears what kerry could do to us in killarney IF WE GET THAT FAR.

Cork had a great tradition in gaa. Great warriors and great heart and fight. But now were falling so far behind we look poised to loose that tradition. In a population sense we should have the players to consistantly challenge but reality is when did we last look like real contenders. What top level team fear cork now ???

ritchie (Cork) - Posts: 346 - 05/05/2015 12:15:29    1720327

Ritchie ...at the end of the day Cork will be in the running but def lacking in some departments.

Cadogan is an intercounty corner or full back. Not a half back or midfielder
Fintan Gould...just not up to scratch for midfield ( he was one of Cork's best players in the league final but kerry would be laughing if he starts). he has been on the panel for a decade and somehow just now he is good enough to start at midfield. I dont think so.

Alan O Conner is a warrior and his return will boost Cork.

Cork will beat most teams in the country and on their day may beat one of Kerry/mayo/Dublin/Donegal but they are def short of winning an ireland.
Some of the younger lads have to start upping their game and take responsibilty from O Neill and Hurley as the potential is there

woops (Kerry) - Posts: 2073 - 05/05/2015 12:34:50    1720332

Lost 2 league matches. Move on. Nothing to see here.

mike03 (Limerick) - Posts: 2000 - 05/05/2015 12:35:49    1720334

For a start you have an easy munster title to collect. If kerry get past tipp then i expect Cork to win.
We are still in a period of transition with young players being bedded in and players returning from injury.
Get a good run of results together with a consistent starting 15 then you never know which way the year will go.
Cork hurlers i have no idea..

KY4SAM2015 (Kerry) - Posts: 898 - 05/05/2015 12:36:17    1720335

Where are we going in Cork?

I usually go to the Hi-B for a couple of pints.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13704 - 05/05/2015 12:36:31    1720336

I'm afraid of a kick in Killarney...

Horsebox77 (Kerry) - Posts: 5491 - 05/05/2015 12:51:14    1720348

I expect a vast improvement come Championship time and a different outcome when you meet Waterford next time around

You were very unlucky in 2013... you're not that far away and def not as much as you looked against Waterford

A fairly shitty couple of weekends on the bounce but happier days ahead I reckon

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 05/05/2015 12:51:48    1720349

In hurling it needs a more long term view.

2013 - lost the Munster final to Limerick but were within a couple of seconds of winning the All-Ireland.
2014 - Munster Champions but comprehensively beaten by Tipperary in the All-Ireland semi.
2015 - NHL runners up so far.

So Jimmy Barry has managed Cork's hurlers in 5 finals winning only one. But at least Cork are getting there. Statistically the problem is Cork's defence. In those 5 games Cork have conceded a whopping 6-113, an average of 26 points per game. Cork's scoring power in those games averages at 22 points per game.

So very simply put, should Cork be playing a system like Clare in the run to the 2013 final or like Waterford now? You can't go into a final conceding an average of 26 points and be expected to win. In those 5 finals they only got past the 26 point mark once, v Limerick in 2014 and they won. So were I JBM I'd be looking at stopping the massive score concessions Cork are letting in.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 05/05/2015 13:10:12    1720358

Corks big concern, if they dont win a big amount of frees will they hit the scores to win big games?

Brianmac78 (Dublin) - Posts: 1168 - 05/05/2015 13:17:08    1720364

Heartfelt post Ritchie, very tough seeing your team outthought and outfought..
i remember as a young fellah watching Limerick playing Cork in Munster championship matches in the 80s and 90s. the fear factor was colossal and the assumption was always Cork were just that bit better... All i can say from a Limerick point of view is that fear is well and truly gone.. lots of respect but no sense anymore of Cork being anything other than a top 6 hurling side... dunno whats happening in Cork hurling but will be watching with interest to see the response to the Waterford debacle.

skillet (Limerick) - Posts: 1056 - 05/05/2015 13:19:52    1720367

skillet

my concern is whether there is a response at all.. The reality is were waiting on this response since last august.. League opener comprehensively beaten by kk. a team that went on to be contest the relegation.. Should have lost to dublin could have lost to wexford. You see what scares me is the manner no the loss. its the flip of what it once was. Do all of the top six possess a fear factor for cork ... we dont go into any game confident anymore we go into a game hoping..

With the footballers its hard to get any feeling of what they are at.. that dublin defeat will scar again like last year and i think we will see the same result as last year.. i fancy a comfortable win for kerry in killarney but i also wouldnt be confident in the semi final .. we are regressing unfortunately aand i think our biggest issues is the mental side rather than the physical

tactically our manager need to be more aware and have plans ourselves but our heart is gone and our mind set is all wrong

ritchie (Cork) - Posts: 346 - 05/05/2015 13:40:59    1720380

Cadogan is an intercounty corner or full back. Not a half back or midfielder
Fintan Gould...just not up to scratch for midfield ( he was one of Cork's best players in the league final but kerry would be laughing if he starts). he has been on the panel for a decade and somehow just now he is good enough to start at midfield. I dont think so.

100 percent agree with Woops on this. Cadogen played some of his best ball at corner back .Fintan goold just disappears come championship.
With the hurling Horgan is producing unbelievable high scores from frees but his return from play has to improve .Alan cadogen is being watched closer this season but he still has so much potential .
Why Lehane(who i genuinely think has the potential to be one of the best forwards in the country) is being played at 14 is beyond me.

tubs12 (Limerick) - Posts: 41 - 05/05/2015 15:36:35    1720474

I think we have to look at the elephant in the room. In Cork, we're building a stadium. And building that stadium has been the sole focus of our county board since the last strike. They see that project as a vindication of everything they've ever done in the GAA. It is their entire raison d'etre. Anybody who opposes or questions it, is a naysayer, a cynic, or (perhaps because they don't understand the meaning of the word) a begrudger. When the stadium is built all will be right with the world.

Meanwhile, the crushing defeats at the hands of teams that used to call us rivals will continue. When the stadium is built we might turn our attention back to our underage structures, and hopefully it won't be too late. The climate might also thaw enough that some of our last golden generation might become involved. In what other county would an entire generation of multiple AI medals be frozen out of management structures? We all saw Dan Shanahan yesterday, but no Donal Og, now Sean OG, no Rock, no O'Connor - nor will there be for the foreseeable future.

If we do end up shutting the gate when the horse has bolted, I'd be hopeful that the National GAA community might bail us out. If the game dies in one of the largest urban areas and the most successful of all GAA counties, it goes way beyond being a local issue. There are countless statistics that point to an alarming decline in Cork. But perhaps the most obvious one is the crowds turning out to see the games. Senior hurling championship games are a shadow of what they were. 2-3000 at all games up to the county final, where there were multiples of that just two short decades ago.

I support the stadium project. I hope it succeeds, and I hope they do a fine job. I think that it could be an enormous asset to the city. And given the essential need for an alternative economic hub to Dublin, in order to enhance national economic development, anything that is an economic asset to Cork, is an asset to the nation. But most of all I support the stadium because its completion is the only thing that'll put the focus back on where it should have been all along - the promotion and development of our games in our island's third largest urban centre.

Culchie (Cork) - Posts: 799 - 05/05/2015 15:59:34    1720500

I feel your pain Richie, I'm also questioning Corks' mental state at the moment.For two Sundays in a row now, we've had our backsides handed to us on a plate. No plan B in both codes and we seem to give up when the going gets tough.
People are saying "it's only the league", but they were league finals that I'm sure we wanted to win.
I'll give both managers the benefit of the doubt for now, and assume they'll right some of the wrongs come championship - However, I won't be holding my breath.

bloodandbandage (Cork) - Posts: 272 - 05/05/2015 16:24:49    1720517

In Cork, we're building a stadium.

Very slowly though Culchie. I can only see a small bit of it knocked.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 05/05/2015 16:27:30    1720519

In hurling, Cork went 12 years between 154 and 1966 without an All Ireland win. However, they were winning the underage competitions. This is not happening now. Waterford haven't won the All Ireland since 1959,so best of luck to them this year.
Hurling has declined in Cork city. Where are the Barrs, the Glen and the Rockies?
I think we'll continue to flounder as Tipp did for 20 years. I wouldn't mind seeing the Decies lift Liam this year

Rockies (Cork) - Posts: 947 - 05/05/2015 16:47:05    1720531

The problem started when our County Board neglected youth development, and whilst other Counties were building from under 14's elite squads and younger we were still expecting our hurlers to appear overnight like mushrooms. In the last 6 years we haven't reached a Munster Minor Final never mind win one, and that in a competition containing 5 teams. Its 14 years since we reached a Minor All Ireland Final. OK its being addressed now but it will take a few more years till the deficit is redressed.
Our present squad lack physicality and divilment, when they get a bit of room they can look good and take classy points, when they are closed down and denied space as Waterford did last Sunday, they are found out. I think slayer is correct, fight fire with fire. If Waterford bring back 7 defenders then we should do likewise and back ourselves to get more long range points.
I do think we are better than what we looked Sunday and I certainly see us making the last 6 in the Championship but we are lacking in a couple of vital areas, especially full back, I am afraid the All Ireland Famine has a bit to run yet.

corkcelt (Cork) - Posts: 4388 - 05/05/2015 16:57:07    1720539

Obviously I'm not from Cork but I do keep up to date with the underage situation in some counties including Cork. It is my understanding that Cork have implemented new underage structures in the past few years and appear to be paying dividends with success at various underage competitions. Therefore it's not correct to say that the Cork County Board will only turn their attention to such matters after the stadium is built.

The current plight of hurling at senior level is hardly any great surprise as underage structures were neglected in the past. What JBM has achieved with what are average players is praiseworthy. Many Cork followers have been fooling themselves in believing that their hurlers could reach the heights of the likes of Tipp and Kilkenny when they don't really have the talent. As I said things are in place now to reap rewards but that will be in about eight years time.

It's also not correct to say that former players haven't got involved in training and managing Cork teams. JBM, Johnny Crowley, Mark Landers, Gerard McCarthy, Seanie McGrath, Pat Mulcahy etc. I believe that the Rock is involved with the underage. Those that haven't got involved may not be up to the task or may not be willing to give up lucrative positions elsewhere.

What I don't understand though is the lack of support for the Cork football team. And I also don't understand why football in Cork is healthy with very decent success at various levels. Why are the structures in football apparently good but not the hurling? Are the same county board officials not responsible for both? Perhaps the hurlers are just not there anymore!

westisthebest (Galway) - Posts: 444 - 05/05/2015 17:27:11    1720552

As someone alluded to earlier, the shade of the Cork Jersey must have changed over the years. There was a time when the sight of the red Jersey sent a shiver down me and a feeling of been beaten before the ball was thrown in took hold, and nearly always we were. I cant answer to Cork problems but they sure arent what they used to be in hurling anyway. I guess the talent just isnt there or more likely is off playing some other sport.

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 693 - 05/05/2015 17:46:25    1720561

Rockies I didn't realise it was so long for the likes of the Bars,Rockies, or Glen rovers have won county titles they were nearly county teams on there own I remember John Horgan driving frees from 90yards over the bar in a club all Ireland. The colleges scene seems to have gone very quiet some very good schools which you don't here of now. Would I be correct in saying between those three clubs they won six club all Irelands in the 1970s.

johnwhite12 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 306 - 05/05/2015 18:01:38    1720570