As gaelic football changes over time - could the next phase lead to teams kicking long range points that punishes teams that sit back ?
An unintended positive response, that improves football skills and punishes the negativity of bus parking. With the increased confidence coming
from accurate kicking, perhaps short hand passes might decline as well.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 19/04/2015 17:36:33    1715473

Lower the duvet tog negates the need for hot water bottles and the like.....

Seriously though three ways to beat it 1) Basketball style - quick hand-passing and movement 2) Rubgy league style counter attack break with pace 3) Aussie Rules Accurate kick passes to the guy in space and long points as you suggested.

Managers should be ale to get players to play in one of these styles with a bit of time and effort. It is a bit of a shock to the GAA system at the moment when a fella cracks a system they will all copy it. For now it is trial and error. It should make them varying thier game and work harder.

gormdubhgorm (Dublin) - Posts: 990 - 19/04/2015 18:12:04    1715494

Just curious - is my screen name toxic to most of you ? :)

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 19/04/2015 21:24:18    1715576

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you omaha. Are you feeling just too intelligent and under-appreciated on HS? It's OK, you'll get used to it; there are leaders.....then there are followers. We'll just have to accept being brainy and leaders.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9696 - 19/04/2015 21:49:30    1715585

omhant, are you not at least going to wait for someone to attack your opinion before going on the defensive? Ive read a few of your threads over the past 6 months, and have a good idea where you are coming from. Anyway, I think that we are in for a bit of long range point scoring this summer. We had it in the league semis, we will perhaps have it in the league final. we will see after that.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 20/04/2015 14:21:06    1715744

gormdubhgorm
County: Dublin
Posts: 353

1715494 Lower the duvet tog negates the need for hot water bottles and the like.....

Seriously though three ways to beat it 1) Basketball style - quick hand-passing and movement 2) Rubgy league style counter attack break with pace 3) Aussie Rules Accurate kick passes to the guy in space and long points as you suggested.

Managers should be ale to get players to play in one of these styles with a bit of time and effort. It is a bit of a shock to the GAA system at the moment when a fella cracks a system they will all copy it. For now it is trial and error. It should make them varying thier game and work harder.

I disagree that the 3 points you made are the way to beat it, as the first 2 points sounded more like a description of Donegal. And while the 3rd point has some validity in theory, long distance points become harder to score the longer the match goes on, and kicking long to the guy in space is difficult against the bigger sides.

Dublin probably had the best system for overcoming it in 2013/2014, by blitzing teams in the first 15-20 minutes. And it then becomes very difficult for the opposition to claw back a large score when a team are playing a very defensive setup.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 20/04/2015 19:37:19    1715843

To Gary Mc -

Kicking into open space seems to work well in the AFL - although to be fair, their pitch is massive. Maybe gaa should go to 13-a side ?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 20/04/2015 20:26:25    1715849

13 a side would destroy the ethos of the game. There would be 2 fewer playing the game. Aside from this, I agree with the Derry poster above. If you can manufacture a good start and a blitz, you more than likely are good to go for the rest of the game.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 21/04/2015 11:04:40    1715925

13 a side would solve a lot of the problems, in tandem with the three suggestions made earlier in the thread. There is a historical precedent for lowering the numbers as the game has evolved - this is evident in the reductions to 15 a side in the early part of the 20th century. 13 a side would also make it easier for small rural clubs to cope in the face of depopulation, and make it easier for larger clubs to field multiple teams.

football first (None) - Posts: 1259 - 21/04/2015 11:32:40    1715935

omahant
County: USA
Posts: 518

1715849 To Gary Mc -

Kicking into open space seems to work well in the AFL - although to be fair, their pitch is massive. Maybe gaa should go to 13-a side ?

I don't agree with reducing players per team to 13, simply to overcome a tactical setup. And I don't think any rule changes will be required at all, and really we should let things take their course.

The Blanket Defence was a tactical awakening within the GAA, and one I have admired in many ways. However it's effectiveness nearly always depends on the type of team Implementing it, and their ability to attack. Considering how many sides that currently Implement some form of blanket defence, how many of those sides have managed to beat Dublin?

The truth is that regardless of what type of defensive structure you Implement, most teams will still lose when faced with a team with Dublin's attacking abilities. You only stand a chance if you can marry that defensive system with effective attacking options. Essentially by forcing Dublin into a proper arm wrestle of a match, something very few teams can currently do.

Long breaks between Intercounty games in the summer tends to allow teams way too much time to setup against each other. Most top teams have 3 or 4 weeks to drill tactics that will nullify the opposition, something I am not in favour of. I think 2 weeks in more than enough time between big games.

The biggest problem in our game is not the blanket defence, Its having to play 3 Club Championship games in 10 days or less if your county has a long Championship run. This is a joke when you consider many county teams have massive breaks between games.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 21/04/2015 11:42:51    1715940

13 a side will result in an even greater focus on fitness and less emphasis on skill, and bigger, slower players will have no place in the game. It is a disastrous idea in my opinion.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 21/04/2015 11:49:23    1715942

OK. lets make it 14-a-side then. Nobody as far as I'm aware has ever suggested this. It's always 13-a-side. but the way teams are set up nowadays it doesn't make a blind bit of difference. and let's face it teams are used to playing 14-a-side anyway when they hav a man sent off. the other change I would make would be to award 2 points for a point scored outside the 45 metres line. I think this could be debated as to whether to award the 2 points from both frees and play or just from play. (i wouldn't like to see deliberate fouling in the latter part of a game to stop a player attempting a 2-pointer).

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 21/04/2015 13:49:58    1716017

It's high time we faced a few facts here.

The blanket is here to stay. To overcome it teams are going to have to up their games offensively. I can't help but feel that a lot of weaknesses in forward lines is being landed over on the blanket when the fact is that some forwards just aren't up to it.

Donegal, supposedly the best in the blanket business, still conceded 0-17 against Dublin last August so it can be done.

Less whinging, more long range shooting practise.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 21/04/2015 14:23:35    1716024

Excellent point there from GaryMc82. The blanket defence is just another tactic employed within the game and teams will evolve to beat it over time. Its popularity stems from 2 places. Firstly its easy to implement and doesn't require highly skilled players. Skill levels in club football have been radically declining over the last 10 years and now we're seeing it on the Inter County level. Corofin were different class to most teams in this years club championship because of the continued focus on skills within the club across all levels.

Secondly given the transient nature of mangers (both club and county) In the modern era going out of the championship by a few points in tight game means future employment would be far easier to come by. The transient nature also prizes short term results over any long term planning.

The best way to encourage the development of Football Skills and to tackle the blanket defence would be to end payment of managers

elvistheking (Galway) - Posts: 99 - 21/04/2015 15:04:53    1716048

elvistheking
County: Galway
Posts: 23

1716048

The best way to encourage the development of Football Skills and to tackle the blanket defence would be to end payment of managers

I actually think the kick passing game will evolve further as we move forward, as will long range score kicking. This in itself, will open games up a little further.

Teams in GAA are very quick to follow trends, and whatever generally wins the All Ireland in any given year, will be then seen in clubs and county teams all over the country the following year.
Example: I've heard that Dublin have brought in basketball coaches this year or something like that to Improve their hand passing, and we have already seen them abandon their all out attack game this season. That all happened because of a single defeat to Donegal last year!!

I think that was a huge mistake, I think Jim Gavin should have stuck with what Dublin are already excellent at.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 21/04/2015 17:26:20    1716120

I can't agree Gary,

Jim Gavin just realised that you can't ignore the basics of defending against the other top teams when it really matters.

Dublin steamrolled all before them in the league when the other top teams weren't in full battle mode & then they steamrolled all before them in a weak Leinster championship.

The weaker minded took this to mean that Dublin were unstoppable & would be winning All Ireland's for the forseeable while a small few kept saying "wait till they meet strong opposition"

When they did their shortcomings were exposed & Gavin, bright man that he is, realised that if Donegal could frustrate them that a team like Kerry would too so he made the sensible decision & shored up the back.

Fair enough, it might take a bit of the sparkle off their flamboyant style but ultimately it will make them a better team.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 21/04/2015 17:48:43    1716128

Think thats a fair point Muckross.

Very simply , Donegal ,Monaghon, Tyrone are not going to abandon a formula that when played well can win an AllIreland and played poorly will still mean a tight game , No reason they should , ye dont stop doing something if it gets you results. Donegal and Monaghon this year to be fair have also been more attacking , But the core principle of keeping men back will always be there. Now Kerry are much more defensive because it got them an AllIreland and so are Dublin this year because ignoring your defensive duties will catch up you eventually. It did to us last year .
From quarterfinals onwards this year will tell a lot where the game is going, ive a feeling packed defence is hear to stay .
It wont be a case of beating the blanket defence ,it will be a case of incorporating it into your game , some teams more than others.


Our 2013 semi final with Kerry i think will be looked back on in years to come as a different game altogether . People will gasp at the open spaces on the pitch .
Southeners will marvel at the open play, Northeners will sneer at the naive defending ;)

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 21/04/2015 18:33:46    1716140

yes the 2013 semi was a great game. There will be other games that will be remembered similarly. I think that when mayo win their all ireland it will be a staggering performance.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 21/04/2015 19:20:43    1716155

Northerners never sneer Ath Cliath, the worst we will do when confronted with naive defending is shake our heads in wonder.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 21/04/2015 19:50:23    1716167

AthCliath
County: Dublin
Posts: 3668

People will gasp at the open spaces on the pitch .
Southeners will marvel at the open play,
Northeners will sneer at the naive defending ;)

I think we have found a true poet on HS, genuinely very well said AthCliath.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 25/04/2015 20:35:29    1717441