Have taken this from sportsjoe, it makes good sense to me, and would allow the provincial championships to be run as a seperate competition however the provinces see fit. Was going to copy the full article, but its quite long and may have upset the administrators of the site here. So here is the link, i think it would work, anyone else have thoughts?

http://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/time-for-a-change-the-football-championship-is-in-need-of-an-intermediate-tier-and-this-is-how-to-do-it/12210

Man in a ditch (Louth) - Posts: 321 - 06/02/2015 13:54:27    1690720

A good idea to work. Allows a provincial championship, a league and AI. Needs to be based on league and Championships in terms of seeding (Seed 1s are Prov. Winners, 2 seeds are finalists, 3 and 4 based on league position of the rest/random). This would only really work in the senior level. In the Inter level, put the seed 1s as the two relegations and the 3rd and 4th in Div 3 (Top two promoted into senior level). This could be replaced by the two play off losers after year 1 or continued as a top divisions Championship. This shows a benefit of winning the Inter (Playing Senior the next year) and allowing teams to win an AI title. Good basic template but needs tightening.

Monaghan08 (Monaghan) - Posts: 188 - 06/02/2015 14:30:46    1690733

Basic principal has been put forward many time here. I would weight the groups differently so you got more clashes between the top teams. The seeding system he proposes still keeps the top four apart until the semis.

I would suggest

Group A - 2 first seeds, 1 second seed and 1 fourth seed - three to advance (top two seeded in quarters)
Group B - 1 first seed, 2 second seed and 1 fourth seed - two to advance (winner seeded in quarters)
Group C - 1 first seed, 2 third seeds and 1 fourth seed - one to advance (winner seeded in quarters)
Group D - 1 second seed, 2 third seeds and 1 fourth seed - one to advance

Winner of intermediate provides 8th all Ireland quarter finalist

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1109 - 06/02/2015 15:01:12    1690742

There will always be gaps int he seeding / grouping process, with the odd teams feeling or actually being hard done by, however I absolutely agree with an inermediate championship being introduced. Counties like ourselves louth are already hoping for a "good run int he qualifiers for 2015" !!

Man in a ditch (Louth) - Posts: 321 - 06/02/2015 15:16:17    1690753

Counties like ourselves louth are already hoping for a "good run int he qualifiers for 2015" !!

We're just hoping we make it to the Qualifiers...

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 06/02/2015 15:21:47    1690756

Something has to be done for the so called lesser or smaller teams so that they are playing each other during the summer and playing more games. There is a large % of the same teams every year only playing 2/3 games and they are out. It must be very demoralising for the players and fans.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11230 - 06/02/2015 15:26:48    1690757

a well thought out proposal and definitely workable. (Not sure how the New York group would work out though.. travel and expense wise)
the only thing I would change would be top 2 divisions in the league should be senior, botom 2 intermdiate.. very simple , does away with all the co-efficient working out. teams will know exactly where they stand . it would also give the league a higher priority. it would also prevent the situation (which sometimes occurs in club situations) whereby a division 1 team could be playing intermediate and a div 3 team playing senior (which I don't think should ever happen).

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 06/02/2015 15:45:33    1690765

I would leave New York out of it. Let the intermediate winner get a trip to New York to play them as a reward.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1109 - 06/02/2015 15:57:45    1690774

tirawleybaron
County: Mayo

I would leave New York out of it

I take it you have never been on one of our jaunts over for the Connacht championship....super weekend. Would hate to see it go.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11230 - 06/02/2015 16:10:30    1690778

This plan makes sense to me.

sponger (Wicklow) - Posts: 2897 - 06/02/2015 16:33:29    1690788

This has to be brought in as quickly as possible. Something will give if its not.

Inthrough (Donegal) - Posts: 32 - 06/02/2015 17:01:21    1690798

The GAA have neglected the weaker counties for too long , it's a good plan . I think their seeding is just per say at the moment . Worth a go - why not . It would make relegation / promotion intriguing !

TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 06/02/2015 17:02:10    1690799

Is it a case of the GAA neglecting weaker counties, or is it a case of those counties simply not being good enough?
The pessimists bemoan the fact that there are only a limited number of strong teams in the championship, but name me one sports competition where this isnt the case.
Wimbledon,the premiership, snooker world championship,, rugby world cup, cricket world cup etc etc. In all of these world renowned tournaments, only a tiny few entrants stand a chance of winning.
When I bemoan the fact that the cats win the all ireland pretty much every year, people say that its up to the other teams to reach Kilkennys level.
Surely if thats the case, we should be saying the same thing to other weaker counties in football, instead of re arranging the championship?

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 07/02/2015 16:15:59    1690923

When I bemoan the fact that the cats win the all ireland pretty much every year, people say that its up to the other teams to reach Kilkennys level.
Surely if thats the case, we should be saying the same thing to other weaker counties in football, instead of re arranging the championship?

Joncarter - some of the counties are weaker, some it is their own fault for not investing properly in youth progression, or cultivating winning mentality at underage level, my own county is at fault for this. However, the tiered championship system in hurling has worked (to a point), and I know louth hurlers would love a Nicky Rackard just as much as a Liam McCarthy medal.

I think an intermediate football championship would reward those counties who win it with a shot at the better countiesand the Sam Maguire, and also gives the ones at the lower end of intermetiate an realistic goal. As I said in a previous post, some fans in louth are already hoping for a decent run in the qualifiers.

A weaker county such as ourselves could come on leaps and bounds this year, make significant progress, but still get battered if we met dublin or kerry in championship, which really wouldnt serve any purpose to us or dublin/kerry. However if we came on leaps and bounds next year, had a good league, maybe promotion, won an intermediate championship, maintained momentum the following year, had a good league the following year, we would be in a much better position going into the game.

I appreciate this is a bit of a ramble, and means a few years potentially for some counties to realistically challenge for Sam, but seriously how many counties are realistically in contention to win sam in the next 3 years anyway?

Man in a ditch (Louth) - Posts: 321 - 09/02/2015 17:28:00    1691770

It's a decent proposal - but as I'm not a fan of round robins and their dead rubber games, we could continue with a tweaked current structure where everyone is guaranteed three matches:

1) Current 'Prov SF 16' play three KO rounds (SF, Final, Champs Playoff) to determine two unbeaten prov champs to AI QFs.
Losers in quantities of 8, 4 and 2 enter Qualifier Rds 2, 3 and 4, respectively.

2) Current 'Qualifier 1st Rd 16' play four KO rounds for the 'Tommy Murphy Cup' and one place in the AI QFs.
Losers (in initial two rounds only) in quantities of 8 and 4 enter Qualifier Rds 2 and 3, respectively.

3) Qualifier Rounds 1, 2, 3 and 4 with quantities of 16, 16, 16 and 10 - with 5 Rd 4 winners completing the AI QFs.

4) To ensure that the '4 bye Munster/Connacht teams' play a minimum three matches like the other 28 teams - put them head-to-head
in 'two-legged Prov SFs' (in lieu of an unplayed QF).

5) Open Draw (all Prov Rds; TMC QFs, SFs and Final; and Qual Rd 3); Seeded Draw (Qual Rds 2 and 4); Inter-Prov (TMC/Qual Rd 1).

The above gives everyone three matches, an 'AI Last 24' consisting of a '4-team Prov Champ Playoff Rd', a '4-team TMC KO SFs (no back door) and a 16-team open draw Qual Rd 3.

What's wrong with this ?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2584 - 10/02/2015 17:30:41    1692197

People keep forgetting that there already is a tiered all Ireland competition. Its called the league, and its on right now, so watch and enjoy.
Man on a ditch, I genuinely mean no disrespect to Louth, but I dont think any format in the world would make ye compete with the Kerrys and the Dublins.

The accepted wisdom on this site says that playing in a weaker league will help strengthen the lesser counties, but isnt there the possibility that it will have the opposite effect?

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 10/02/2015 19:57:02    1692257

joncarter
County: Galway
Posts: 1565

1692257
People keep forgetting that there already is a tiered all Ireland competition. Its called the league, and its on right now, so watch and enjoy.
Man on a ditch, I genuinely mean no disrespect to Louth, but I dont think any format in the world would make ye compete with the Kerrys and the Dublins.

The accepted wisdom on this site says that playing in a weaker league will help strengthen the lesser counties, but isnt there the possibility that it will have the opposite effect?


Well said joncarter. I have been banging this drum for years. The "all-Ireland" is a Knockout competition and should be treated as such. There should be no equality in knockout competitions . it is pure luck who you get. (btw. I have always been in favour of a complete open draw .) The league should be the main competition. It is structured properly. I can't believe that some counties would see a properly structured league with 7 games against teams of similar ability as some sort of warm up for a knockout competition in which you have no chance of winning and will probably get 2 games at the most. It is frankly ludicrous.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 11/02/2015 09:43:18    1692338

One question I put forward to all those here who are from a county that could find itself in such an Intermediate championship is.....how likely are you to go and watch your county play in this? For example you're from Laois. Are you more, less or equally likely to watch them play Clare in a group game as you would to see them play Ofally in a Leinster QF.
Same logic can be applied to everyone just change county names.

RoyalBadger (Meath) - Posts: 571 - 11/02/2015 11:37:54    1692387

s goldrick
County: Cavan
Posts: 3306

I can't believe that some counties would see a properly structured league with 7 games against teams of similar ability as some sort of warm up for a knockout competition in which you have no chance of winning and will probably get 2 games at the most. It is frankly ludicrous.

I wouldn't blame the counties on this one,this is an issue for the organisation itself to sort out. I agree that a league is the best way to determine the best team over the course of a season. However, the GAA do very little to promote it or telivise it in comparison to the championship. On top of that, how many players can you name that have won an allstar based soley on their league performance? virtually unheard of I would think. I could name you the previous ten AI winners in both codes without hesitation but even trying to remember who won the league two years ago is tough for me. I guess we love our traditions in the GAA and traditionally the AI championship has always been the centre of that universe.

There was a time in English football when the FA cup was the biggest domestic honour a club could win, the league just couldn't compare to a day at wembly. That was until a serious PR campaign was launched in the early 90's to promote the new PL which got major TV investment and established the league as the biggest domestic trophy in England. Obviously, we shouldn't always compare that with the GAA but with sky now involved and more revenue coming in we could do with some fresh ideas, because it does seem ridiculous when a team prepares for eight months or so for the sake of 2 or 3 games, it must be demoralising for players who give so much.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2385 - 11/02/2015 12:12:44    1692411

As the Roscommon manager alluded to at the weekend, league systems suit the biggest counties with the strongest panels. Since the start of the 90s only 5 different clubs have won the English soccer league, in the same time 10 counties have won Sam and probably the same number have won the FA cup. A side like Roscommon will give anyone a game in a knockout competition, but in a league where they pick up injuries and suspensions they have nowhere near the strength in depth to come out on top. That is why, quite rightly, the championship is seen as the biggest competition in the GAA.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 11/02/2015 12:24:59    1692416