As much as I enjoy Brolly and his musings when the mighty Brian Cody speaks then its time to stop and listen - legend indeed

Tim_Burr (Down) - Posts: 460 - 21/01/2015 14:11:15    1685150

I'm sure that many will see Cody's assertion that 'players should be prepared to kill to win a game' as further evidence of his greatness and the reason behind the success of his sides, but I think that it is a stupid and irresponsible thing to say. Young lads don't need to hear that type of rubbish from a supposed role model. They need to know that there is more to sport than destroying opponents in any way you can.

Sport for most people is about enjoyment, and should always be played in a spirit that amounts to 'trying your best to win, but accepting defest graciously should it come along'. Cody needs to either embrace a sense of perspectitve in life, or develop a vocabulary that more accurately conveys what he means.

Thomas Clarke (Tyrone) - Posts: 1002 - 21/01/2015 14:21:10    1685155

Like Meath, Tyrone have had many "hardy chaws" on their teams in recent times that stretched the meaning of the term "role model" to their limit so people in glasshouses and all that, most people will realise that Cody's terminology was stressing of how much effort and workrate he demands from his players, hence their success. Sean Boylan was often accused of sending players out to kill, he never did and neither has Cody nor will he. The mans dedication to his sport and his county after so many years and after so much success is extraordinary and deserves nothing but generous acknowledgement and praise

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3734 - 21/01/2015 15:17:23    1685179

Or Thomas you need to rub those two grey cells together to understand what he actually means.

The willingness to die for the cause lazily suggests that you are prepared to absorb whatever comes your way, when Cody talks about killing for the cause he implies what you are prepared to inflict on your opponent all that is necessary to win, not to be taken literally....

One has negative overtures and the other has positive overtures, I'll let you decide which ones which!

bricktop (Down) - Posts: 2503 - 21/01/2015 15:21:12    1685183

Bricktop - ah, I see now, so Cody wasn't really advocating murder, but rather he was just saying that you have to do anything that it takes to win? Thanks for explaining, but I was actually able to discern the mening the first time I read the article. The point is the same: that is not how I see sport. In my mind, sport is not about doing anything necessary to win, or anything like that - there is far, far more to sport than simply results.

And Richie - I'm certainly not pitching stones from any glasshouse. There are plenty of things that Tyrone managers/players have done in the last decade that I've disagreed with, and have been happy to say so on here.

I know that this is not the popular view as, to many, Cody is some sort of sporting God but, for me, sporting ends aren't always justifed by the means, and I don't think it's a good thing for young players to hear the type of comments that Cody made.

Thomas Clarke (Tyrone) - Posts: 1002 - 21/01/2015 15:40:01    1685195

Some of what Cody says is nonsense.Are we supposed to believe that its Tipps,Limericks,Corks,Galways lack of spirit that is stopping them from beating Kilkenny?Im a huge fan of Kilkenny hurling but i think Cody can be patronising in some of his comments.Dodgy umpiring cost Tipp last years league final,and dodgy rule changing prob cost Tipp the All Ireland.Not to mention Tipp being a Hawkeye call away from the big one.There was nothing wrong with Tipps spirit.They didnt get the breaks and a bit of luck goes a long way.Kilkenny have had the best team ever to play the game over the last 15 years,sprinkled with all time greats like Henry,JJ,Tommy and DJ.It is this reason,more than any other,that has seen them win 10 All Irelands in that time.Yes they have a great spirit and team unity,but so do Tipp.And im sure so do Clare,Waterford,Dublin etc.I dont have an issue with him saying the they go out to kill to try and win.Just figuratively speaking.Again,im sure a lot of the other counties would kill to win.Difference being,they dont have the requisite amount of top class hurlers to beat Kilkenny.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 21/01/2015 16:03:41    1685202

Way too much sanctimony Thomas. Way too much sanctimony.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 21/01/2015 16:54:59    1685230

Cody is a great manager but that doesnt mean that everyting he says is correct.
Maybe the Kilkenny boys are happy to sacrifice their youth to play hurling but that doesnt mean everyone else has to be.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 21/01/2015 20:19:50    1685307

bricktop

Or Thomas you need to rub those two grey cells together to understand what he actually means.

The willingness to die for the cause lazily suggests that you are prepared to absorb whatever comes your way, when Cody talks about killing for the cause he implies what you are prepared to inflict on your opponent all that is necessary to win, not to be taken literally....

One has negative overtures and the other has positive overtures, I'll let you decide which ones which!

Praise the Lord there's a person with some decent intellect to understand what Cody was actually saying! - Very well put bricktop

Unfortunately it seems to have totally gone over the heads of some!

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1415 - 21/01/2015 21:17:13    1685332

I dont think hurling has anywhere near as big an issue as football does. Generally, hurling is a game still played man-to-man positionally. Yes you need to be in peak physical order to cut it at the top but without practicing the skills and game play your physical condition is irrelevant. A lot of what is practiced in hurling is still enjoyable whilst being demanding.

Football on the other hand is becoming all physicality and tactics. Those two components outweigh skill and talent today and that is why most county teams are drilled repetitively to master defence first tactics and taking the fun out of the game has sent some of our best players limping into retirement.

If Cody's view was about hurling i think he is right but from a football perspective id have to agree more with Joe.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2385 - 22/01/2015 09:41:07    1685364

I'm inclined to agree with you there, SaffronDon.

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 22/01/2015 10:50:29    1685388

U cant have the best of both worlds. Either u subscribe to ultra competitiveness and accept that you are making your players make enormous sacrifices, or you dont, and win nothing. That is the hard reality of it. We as supporters are guilty as being part of the problem,, as we expect our teams to win or compete at the very highest level every year. If we all decided that it was only a game, how do you go out and play without being competitive? How do you expect players and managers to step down their training? If 31 counties did this, there would be one county who would secretly maintain their levels to get the edge on everyone else. And this would never happen, as there would be at least 10 counties that would train as hard as each other anyway.

Telling your players to go out and half kill your opponents is another days talking. I dont think that there is a future for the game if this is the mentality that is being spouted in dressing rooms or at training. yes, being competitive is very important, but it is too big an ask for young players to subscribe to this, it is not worth it in the short, mid or long term.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 22/01/2015 11:32:27    1685403

SaffronDon....nail on head.

ConnollyDub (Dublin) - Posts: 2007 - 22/01/2015 12:51:15    1685439

bricktop

Put perhaps even simpler. To die for implies a lost cause from the start, to kill for implies your huger to achieve.

However thats neither here nor there. What Cody is saying is that players have choices and they chose it because they enjoy it - there is not money to be made out of it so one has to assume that people play because they enjoy doing it.

The problem is of course is that can be taken advantage of and younger players in particular need protection from themselves. I think perhaps SafronDon there is truth in what you say but it still doesn't take away from the underlying fact that the lads are adults and they still have to be enjoying what they do otherwise they wouldn't be there. I often wonder when I look at the teams who play ultra defensive, if the players really enjoy playing the game but they must, why else would they do it and thats Cody's point.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1800 - 22/01/2015 14:51:54    1685504

I would have to say I've asked that question to myself as well Zin. I think the main thing to remember and speaking from first hand knowledge would be that most inter county players are ultra competitive personalities who love a challenge. That's what usually helps them stand out at club level and indeed other walks of life. So when you assemble a group of lads like this at the start of a season and set targets of achievement and what it will take to get there, very few will want to back down and see the others beat them to it. However, if you were to ask that same group of players if their current inter county schedule is as enjoyable as it was when they first played the game, i'd say most would concede that it wasnt.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2385 - 22/01/2015 15:43:18    1685535

I suppose just because football these days can sometimes be a bit of a damp squib to watch doesn't mean that it's not enjoyable to play. Camaraderie from training hard as a squad & being competitive as a team will always appeal to plenty of fellas.

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 22/01/2015 16:33:57    1685565

Anyway it was just announced that his last fight brought the highest numbers in its history. So I don't think he'll be too bothered about a few bitter gaa lads slagging him and his multi million dollar sport off! :P

blackspot91 (Limerick) - Posts: 1055 - 22/01/2015 17:47:03    1685597

Don't like Cody. So ill stick with brolly.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 22/01/2015 18:00:42    1685609

I have to laugh at Brian Cody he's a very funny man
He called Barry Kelly's refereeing decision for Tipp in All Ireland final a criminal decision which could have won Tipps 27th title yet there was nothing criminal about DIarmuid KIrwans decision to give KIlkenny a penalty in 2009 which clearly to everybody in the country except Brian and DIarmuid was a free out for TIpp after RIchie Power took 20 steps with the ball and also the two dodgy decisions by the umpires in the league final this year which cost TIpp the league title when a trip to spec savers by the umpires would have decided who really should have won the league title so good man Brian keep it going your a gas man!!

tiobraidArann (Tipperary) - Posts: 362 - 22/01/2015 20:38:00    1685662

Get over it Thurlasblues for crying out loud.

Cody's analogy is pretty simple. To die for the cause means your opponent was better than you but you gave your all. To kill means to never accept defeat, never give up and never believe anyone is better than you. Great mentality to have. So it's ok to say die to kids but it's not ok to say kill. Great example alright.

Absolutely nothing wrong with what he said. Irish people love a moan, it was the same with the word criminal. These words are to be taken in context with the sport not with life outside the sport. If what happened on the field was treated as normal life then players would be arrested after games for assault instead of getting sent off.

Faithfull (Offaly) - Posts: 573 - 22/01/2015 21:42:07    1685681