http://balls.ie/gaa/neither-kerry-tyrone-talented-team-noughties-says-former-star/

Enda McNulty reckons that his Armagh team were the most talented team of their generation and that is why they must be considered failures because they only took home the big prize once.

Any thoughts?

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13707 - 17/12/2014 13:40:43    1679093

I believe that that group of footballers possibly left at least two more Sams behind but they were spent by 2006.

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 17/12/2014 14:11:53    1679104

I dont think they were failures.If they were good enough,they would have won more All Irelands.For whatever reason,they just werent able.Tyrone were by far the better team in 2003 final.There was no excuse for losing to Fermanagh one year.I must say im not a fan of McNulty.Talks a lot of nonsense.Some people love this sports pyschology.Of course it has its merits but when i hear McNulty speak i turn the radio off.He would cure insomnia.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 17/12/2014 14:32:21    1679113

McNulty generating some publicity for himself, nothing new there. They were a class team and they did reach the summit. I remember them beating us handily in a league semi final. Diagonal ball into the front men. Even though we were getting beat I couldn't help but admire how they moved the ball so fast and so clinical.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7344 - 17/12/2014 14:59:43    1679121

They won an All Ireland so they can hardly be considered failures. Like all teams they had the rub of the green the year they did win it, but they certainly deserved to win at least one. Arguably, Cross being so prominent at the same time prevented them doing more at county level. Don't agree that they should not have been beaten by Fermanagh. Apart from winning me a right few bob - a lot of which I lost back in the semi-final :-(, that was a handy Fermanagh team who could and perhaps should have beaten Mayo as well as Armagh that year.

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 17/12/2014 15:02:42    1679123

This is ridiculous.

Armagh were actually lucky to win their single All Ireland. Kerry were the better team throughout that game.

I would admit that they were slightly unlucky not to reach the All Ireland final in 05 but who knows if they would have beaten Kerry? and they were very lucky to have won the replayed Ulster Final that year.

Sounds like Sour Grapes 10 years too late...that rhymes (I'm a poet and I don't even know it).

Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 912 - 17/12/2014 15:03:48    1679124

Wally, the list of teams that didn't deserve their All Irelands seems to outweigh the list of teams that did win All Irelands. That Armagh team, Meath in '96, Dublin in '11, Kerry this year etc. They all well deserved their Sam Maguires cos they kicked the vital scores when they counted on the big day and played to the final whistle. Hats off to them.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7344 - 17/12/2014 15:16:58    1679129

That Armagh team did underachieve and McNulty has a point. I think the word of failures is maybe over the top. That team had everything but maybe lack of strength in depth especially in the forwards cost them dear. A forward line of McKeever, John McEntee,McConville,McDonnell,Clarke and Marsden was some unit. I would rate there forwards better than the Kerry or Tyrone forwards at the time too. It really was a vintage era of football that unfortunately it will take an awful long time to get back to that level. 2005 will be the year that Armagh left it behind the major flaw that day was the removal of Kieran McGeeney with ten minutes to go cost Armagh dear. I also feel that the wrong management team was in place and this has been proven by the flawed nature of the Galway stint.

shaggylegend (Monaghan) - Posts: 1928 - 17/12/2014 15:19:12    1679130

They underachieved by their own high standards, but does that mean they were failures?

1999, won ulster, (beat down) and beaten by meath who won the all ireland that year
2000, won ulster, (beat derry) beaten by all ireland champs kerry in a replay
2001, beaten by Galway in round one or 2 by a point, who went on to win sam
2002, won ulster (beat donegal) and won the all ireland, beating sligo, dublin and kerry to win it
2003, beaten in 1st round, beaten by tyrone in the all ireland final
2004, won ulster, (beat donegal), mysteriously beaten by fermanagh in the quarter finals
2005, won the ulster final (beating tyrone), beaten by tyrone in a very tight semi final (who won the all ireland)
2006, won ulster (beat donegal), beaten by kerry in the quarter finals.

2007 and beyond the wheel came off. They still won ulster in 2008, losing to wexford in the quarter finals.

Fermanagh were the only team to beat armagh between 1999 and 2006 who did not go on to win the all ireland.
I think they were a very tough side, and did deserve to win another all ireland, but they would have had to win in 2000, 2001 or 2004. They were not good enough in 2006 to beat a very very good kerry team, and were lucky to beat them in 2002. They were not good enough to beat tyrone in 2003 or 2005 either, so they had more than one chance to beat them as well.

It is very similar to cork of the mid to late 00s. they only won a single all ireland, were good enough to add to it, but didnt.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 17/12/2014 16:37:21    1679158

GreenandRed,

Yes they kicked the right score at the right time but to say that they truly deserved to win that All Ireland is wrong. They rode their luck and had the rub of the green.

That is not the terminology that I would use to describe a team that deserved to win an All Ireland.

Then for one of their former players to come out 10 years later and claim that they should have won 9 All Ireland's is just ludicrous.

Armagh had a very good team but if you are getting beat by small margins year in and year out and cannot close out the game or the championship then you don't deserve nothing.

Joe Brolly wrote a very good article not so long ago about Armagh. He described the end of the Movie 'Unforgiven' when Clint Eastwood storms into the bar and Kills a dozen people before going over and pointing his gun at the main antagonist Gene Hackman. Hackman cries and says that he doesn't deserve this by which Eastwood says 'Deserve has nothing to do with it'!

The point was that saying that you deserve something doesn't matter. You either go out and win All Ireland's or you don't.

Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 912 - 17/12/2014 17:11:13    1679167

Grewnfield. Still sour grapes over 96??
Meath were by far the better team. Lot better footballers. They didn't even perform to 30% of their ability. And still could account for mayo. How tragic would it have been if by some miracle. Mayo had won that game. It would be known as the worst Sam winners of all time
As for Armagh? No i think they won about what they deserved.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 17/12/2014 18:42:26    1679186

None at all Royaldunne. But plenty of Mayo people still have a hangup about ''96. Still can't get over that we gave up a seven point lead in the second half the first day and sure didn't the ref send off yer worst player and our best player. I believe we still don't analyse games enough to try and eliminate mistakes made while losing big games and trying to correct those mistakes 18 years and 6 more final defeats later.

Wally, no team 'deserves' to win an All Ireland. Playing the better football is not the same as playing smart winning football.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7344 - 17/12/2014 19:34:29    1679203

left 1 all ireland in 2004 behind them in my opinion

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 17/12/2014 19:48:49    1679207

Maybe two all-irelands would've been a more accurate reflection of how good they are but I wouldn't go any further than that. They had a good year in 2003, they had a better stab at winning back-to-back all-irelands than Tyrone ever did but probably underperformed in the final a bit (as did Tyrone probably). At least they won one, plenty of good teams don't win any, and a good few of them played for Crossmaglen and aren't exactly lacking in the medals department.

MichaelO (Tyrone) - Posts: 820 - 17/12/2014 20:46:48    1679214

Typical revisionism by the nordies, they were lucky to win in 2002, when Kerry were clearly the better team, paudie lost it on the line for Kerry not to mind our terrible wides but Kerry sucked it up but what I find amusing is the reference to 2006, a game lasts for 70 plus minutes and Armagh were handed their backsides on a platter, they could never get over that so I would say that one all-Ireland was about their lot, 9 all-Irelands, is this guy having a laugh, the reason why they didn't win 9 All-irelands was because the wee simply not good enough.

mlcollins (Kerry) - Posts: 440 - 17/12/2014 21:00:55    1679218

9 All Irelands??? 9 All All Irelands??? Not 2 or maybe 3 but 9 haha come on Enda I know your a positive guy but give me a break yes yous had a good side but you weren't as good as you think, kerry and tyrone teams of 00's were better sides. If any team should have 9 more all Irelands its Dublin how many games have we somehow lost when it looked impossible but we somehow did. '91 '93 '94 '00 '02 '03 '06 '10 ''12 (ok we didn't deserve that one but nearly snatched it with an 8 point comeback)

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 17/12/2014 21:04:08    1679220

mayo were another team at least they got over the lin for 1 all ireland

antoman (Mayo) - Posts: 140 - 17/12/2014 21:18:59    1679223

Il never forget the 2 games in 2000 , there was some football played in those two games, also had a great session with some Armagh fans after the 2002 final, great team and great people.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 17/12/2014 21:35:18    1679225

One All-Ireland might be all that was destined for the team, but without a doubt that Armagh team changed Gaelic Football and has continued to influence the rest of the country and that is their greatest achievement.

GetOverTheBar (Tyrone) - Posts: 1388 - 17/12/2014 21:56:42    1679233

Looking back - we were in in the middle of a wonderful era of success, we beat most, reached the summit and then the wheels came off, most GAA supporters would say that team should have won more All-Ireland's but it didn't happen..... 9 All- Irelands - No, 3 who knows, but 2004 and 2005 we were very close. As regards 99 we were better than Meath for 60 mins, but it was Meath's experience which got them over the line......if we meet the Meath team when we had more experience who knows.... but its ifs and buts, the history books will show only 1 Sam from that period, did Ulster take too much out of them....

cuchulainn35 (Armagh) - Posts: 1673 - 17/12/2014 21:58:10    1679235