It seems most county players feel there is a need for major overhaul to the championship structures at provincial and national level. A seeded champions league-type set up would certainly work as 8 groups of 4 (maybe 5 in some with London/N York). This would give every county at least 3 games in the summer. The obvious stumbling blocks to this would be provincial councils - but we could still have our Prov championships in place of the league (Feb - Apr). Each province would have a different system obviously to give more games e.g. Connacht: One group of 5, Leinster: 2 groups of 6, Munster: One group of 6, Ulster 5 + 4. All of these would still have less games than the league but more competitive and would leave more space for club games

fullbach (Carlow) - Posts: 264 - 12/12/2014 12:09:31    1678214

If the provincial championships replaced the league then some teams would only play one match in the whole thing. Not very good for preparation. A league style format for the provincials would have to be created to accommodate a champions league style championship

deadybai (Kilkenny) - Posts: 63 - 12/12/2014 12:56:28    1678228

since when did players call the shots??????
the current crop of inter county players are just that current
they dont get to decide whats best for the association going forward
thats why there are people who are not currently play the game who are appointed to run the association.
the current crop of inter county players would probably also love a ps vita instead of a national leage medal
should that be implemented aswell to suit them.

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 12/12/2014 13:12:51    1678234

deadybai, i think you misread my post - every team would have at least 4 games

fullbach (Carlow) - Posts: 264 - 12/12/2014 13:23:31    1678237

Ye I think a change to the format is inevitable, be it 5, 10 or 20 years down the line change will happen so attempts to block it are pretty pointless. But I've said many times and I'll say it again, I believe the World Cup format (3 group games) to be a better option than the Champions League format (6 group games) because under the WC format nearly every group game would be of vital importance, the champions league churns out quite a few meaningless group games particularily in the latter rounds.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 12/12/2014 13:55:32    1678252

hill16no1man
County: Dublin
Posts: 8878

1678234 since when did players call the shots??????
the current crop of inter county players are just that current
they dont get to decide whats best for the association going forward
thats why there are people who are not currently play the game who are appointed to run the association.
the current crop of inter county players would probably also love a ps vita instead of a national leage medal
should that be implemented aswell to suit them.

yea but to be fair, without the players there is nothing. also the current officers of the GAA are only that "current", they might not last as long as a player on a county team. the players are the most important people in the GAA.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 12/12/2014 14:33:16    1678266

Farrell outlined the different issues for different players, Munster/Ulster players probably believe the Prov championships are as important as the all-Ireland or as near as damn it, yet for others its a meaningless charade.

I think the Prov championships should be retained as stand alone competitions. But the All Ireland should be a separate competition. If you start on that basis you might arrive at something more meaningful. But it can't go on the way it is.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4896 - 12/12/2014 14:56:27    1678274

1) keep the provincials.
2) a team that gets knocked out of provincial goes into qualifier A or B system; A being Div 1/2 teams ,B being Div 3/4 teams.
So you have A championship (Sam Maguire) and B championship (not Sam Maguire).

You win the B championship, you play A championship next year.

Now thats simple folks, and it ticks all the boxes....

dachubba (Cavan) - Posts: 74 - 12/12/2014 15:36:04    1678283

the only change that would be made that makes perfect sense would be
to instead of having them leinster munster ulster and connaught
have four competitions of 8 counties run the same way as knockout
but draw them openly not run on geography
with quarter finals, semi finals and finals in each of the four competitions
the losers in each round go into the qualifiers as normal
this would mean no gaps for any county
as there would be an equal amount of games played each weekend
plus you would get to the all ireland quarter finals stage without leaving long gaps for winners

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 12/12/2014 16:32:18    1678291

Hill16no1man, the focus here is to improve the quality of matches. Div1 and Div 2 teams can only possibly win an all ireland, why have div 3 and div 4 teams play games in that competition. Its a farce. Thats like playing yeovil and wrexham in the EPL. Take a leaf out of the ladies all ireland structure. Every game is competitive and value for money. We're way behind.

dachubba (Cavan) - Posts: 74 - 12/12/2014 17:07:57    1678302

Run the provincials on a league basis, Leinster & Ulster split in two groups, Munster & Connaught one group, each team plays each other once, top team in each group in Leinster & Munster meet in the final, top two in Munster & Connaught play in final (or you can have semis if you so wish) provincial champions then meet in an open draw All Ireland semi final. Each team has a good few games drawn on a home and away basis, bit of a money spinner for county grounds. Possible problems for London and especially New York logistically but there are ways and means.......

Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3734 - 12/12/2014 19:09:55    1678321

dachubba Wrexham play in the league cup and Fa cup where the could play manutd or Liverpool. A secondary competition will not work and will destroy football in Division 3 and 4 counties. There is only about 4 teams capable of winning the all Ireland, most of the rest of the counties are of a similar level.

ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 12/12/2014 21:44:05    1678355

Rather than forcing counties into provs of equal size or strength, why not keep the existing AI championship structure, but with the following changes:

1) 8 Qualifier Rd 1 losers, get a 3rd chance (offsets prov imbalance), and play the 8 losing prov Sflists in Qual Rd 2.
2) 16 Qual Rds 1 & 2 winners join 4 losing prov finalists in Qual Rd 3 (Rd of 20).
3) 10 Qual Rd winners join 2 losing prov champs (after a 'Champions Rd') in Qual Rd 4 (Rd of 12).
4) 6 Qual Rd 4 winners join 2 unbeaten prov champs in the AI QFs.

5) Pairings - Intra-prov only (Qual Rd 1, Uls prelim rd loser to Lein); Half the Teams are Seeded (Qual Rds 2 & 4); and Open Draw (Qual Rd 3)

These changes are fair to everyone. For example, when the 16 prov sflists are known, each sflist needs to either win a SF, OR the Qual Rd 2 tie following a defeat, in order to get to the Last 24 (20-team-Rd 3, or 4 prov champs). Likewise, the 16 non-prov-sflists, either win in Qual Rd 1, OR the Qual Rd 2 tie against one of those prov sflists, following a defeat. While prov rd wins advance a team thru the prov stream, the lopsided nature of the provs is neutralized, with all 32 having a similar shot at Sam.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2584 - 16/12/2014 19:29:41    1678920

These threads are never ending so i'll give my usual proposal

1. Curtail league (minimum 5 matches and max 7 including finals)

2. Open draw provincial championships run off in 5 weeks with extra time in all matches (max 5 matches)

3. Top 16 enter Sam Maguire and bottom 16 enter Tommy Murphy (top 16 selected from league and championship results for past 3 years) 4 groups of 4 playing each other once.

4. Top 7 from Sam Maguire groups (4 winners plus 3 best runner ups) and Tommy Murphy winner qualify for All Ireland quarter finals and trip to New York

5. Team with lowest points in Sam Maguire get relegated to Tommy Murphy for following year.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1109 - 17/12/2014 15:11:16    1679128

Would anyone like a system where 4 prov champs join 20 teams from Qual Rd 3 ?

That is, play the current championship as is, but have 8 Qual Rd 1 losers play (3rd chance) 8 prov losing sflists in Rd 2.
The Rd of 20 consists of 4 beaten prov finalists and 16 teams who have won 1 qualifier (Rd 1 OR Rd 2).
Prov champs play a 'Champions Rd' - 2 losers to 12-team Rd 4.
6 Rd 4 winners join 2 unbearen prov champs in AI QFs.

This keeps prov championships, but the race for Sam is fair.
I would like feedback on this one.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2584 - 20/12/2014 14:57:34    1679595

Too much turkey it seems - do yez have anything to say ?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2584 - 29/12/2014 15:40:40    1680040

I couldn't care less what intercounty players want.

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2550 - 06/01/2015 14:32:45    1680918

12/12/2014 12:09:31 fullbach
It seems most county players feel there is a need for major overhaul to the championship structures at provincial and national level. A seeded champions league-type set up would certainly work as 8 groups of 4 (maybe 5 in some with London/N York). This would give every county at least 3 games in the summer. The obvious stumbling blocks to this would be provincial councils - but we could still have our Prov championships in place of the league (Feb - Apr). Each province would have a different system obviously to give more games e.g. Connacht: One group of 5, Leinster: 2 groups of 6, Munster: One group of 6, Ulster 5 + 4. All of these would still have less games than the league but more competitive and would leave more space for club games Wouldn't replace league with provincial championships if you put in 8 groups of 4 as part of Ireland.
Why would provincial groups in place of league be more competitive?
12/12/2014 12:56:28 deadybai
If the provincial championships replaced the league then some teams would only play one match in the whole thing. Not very good for preparation. A league style format for the provincials would have to be created to accommodate a champions league style championship or keep provincial championship as knockout and make league smaller rather than 4 groups of 8....
12/12/2014 13:12:51 hill16no1man
since when did players call the shots?????? the current crop of inter county players are just that current
they dont get to decide whats best for the association going forward thats why there are people who are not currently play the game who are appointed to run the association. the current crop of inter county players would probably also love a ps vita instead of a national leage medal should that be implemented aswell to suit them.Who said players are calling the shots?? Should players not have a voice in competition structures considering they will be the ones who actually do get to play?

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 06/01/2015 18:01:18    1681012

12/12/2014 16:32:18 hill16no1man
the only change that would be made that makes perfect sense would be to instead of having them leinster munster ulster and connaught
have four competitions of 8 counties run the same way as knockout but draw them openly not run on geography with quarter finals, semi finals and finals in each of the four competitions the losers in each round go into the qualifiers as normal this would mean no gaps for any county
as there would be an equal amount of games played each weekend plus you would get to the all ireland quarter finals stage without leaving long gaps for winnersWhat would be the point in simply making things symmetrical as other than making things tidier the 4 groups of 8 have no history and nothing of what make the 4 provincial championships great?
12/12/2014 17:07:57 dachubba
Hill16no1man, the focus here is to improve the quality of matches. Div1 and Div 2 teams can only possibly win an all ireland, why have div 3 and div 4 teams play games in that competition. Its a farce. Thats like playing yeovil and wrexham in the EPL. Take a leaf out of the ladies all ireland structure. Every game is competitive and value for money. We're way behind. Talking about soccer is wrong. GAA is way behind but simply putting division 1/2 sides in 1 championship and 3/4 sides in another isn't the right way of going about things
12/12/2014 19:09:55 Richieq
Run the provincials on a league basis, Leinster & Ulster split in two groups, Munster & Connaught one group, each team plays each other once, top team in each group in Leinster & Munster meet in the final, top two in Munster & Connaught play in final (or you can have semis if you so wish) provincial champions then meet in an open draw All Ireland semi final. Each team has a good few games drawn on a home and away basis, bit of a money spinner for county grounds. Possible problems for London and especially New York logistically but there are ways and means....... That's awful idea. Sides play the same ones every year too much in your proposal. Needs to be better than that especially when you have such differing standards in each province
06/01/2015 14:32:45 icehonesty
I couldn't care less what intercounty players want. Should they, the players and ones who provide the entertainment and sport for everyone, not have a say in the competitions they will be playing in?

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 06/01/2015 18:02:05    1681013

Keep the existing AI championship structure, but with the following changes:

1) 8 Qualifier Rd 1 losers, get a 3rd chance (offsets prov imbalance), and play the 8 losing prov Sflists in Qual Rd 2.
2) 16 Qual Rds 1 & 2 winners join 4 losing prov finalists in Qual Rd 3 (Rd of 20).
3) 10 Qual Rd winners join 2 losing prov champs (after a 'Champions Rd') in Qual Rd 4 (Rd of 12).
4) 6 Qual Rd 4 winners join 2 unbeaten prov champs in the AI QFs.

5) Pairings - Intra-prov only (Qual Rd 1, Uls prelim rd loser to Lein); Half the Teams are Seeded (Qual Rds 2 & 4); and Open Draw (Qual Rd 3)

These changes are fair to everyone. For example, when the 16 prov sflists are known, each sflist needs to either win a SF, OR the Qual Rd 2 tie following a defeat, in order to get to the Last 24 (20-team-Rd 3, or 4 prov champs). Likewise, the 16 non-prov-sflists, either win in Qual Rd 1, OR the Qual Rd 2 tie against one of those prov sflists, following a defeat. While prov rd wins advance a team thru the prov stream, the lopsided nature of the provs is neutralized, with all 32 having a similar shot at Sam.
A repeat call Comments

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2584 - 09/01/2015 21:03:17    1681952