Ciaran Whelan article in yesterdays Irish Independent on revamping the Gaelic Football Season is worth considering in my opinion. The whole league and championship needs a change. What do people think of his proposal.


http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/revamp-league-to-bring-bite-back-into-championship-whelan-30434953.html

evano11 (Cavan) - Posts: 265 - 17/07/2014 10:18:56    1620493

I'm not convinced about his revamp of the league idea, but he's right that the whole thing has gone stale. The current format has definitely stagnated. The qualifiers appear to be of no interest to a lot of counties. As soon as they are knocked out of provincial championships you have lads heading to the US or even on holidays as Down had for a recent qualifier. I don't see what the provincial championships offer either. Once upon a time if you lost an All Ireland semi final or final, then at the end of the year you could console yourself with the fact that you were champion of your province, but as Meath found out in 2010 you can now win the title and then lose it in the next game when another team from your own province comes back and beats you. It used to be said that the league games counted for nothing, but now the provincial games really are worthless. As long as people keep throwing out 30 quid for a ticket though they'll continue to be played. The number of games in the article also seemed excessive. Club football has to be fit in as well and now it has to finish in a calendar year. Something has to give in the current club-county conflict so maybe that would force the issue.

Greenfield (Meath) - Posts: 522 - 17/07/2014 10:41:40    1620498

I think the Leinster counties definitely, and maybe Ulster too, will never go for that format as an uneven proportion of their counties would not be in the final 20 teams. I think something very similar should be done but use the last league run to determine the top 20 teams. Then run provincial leagues the following year in the spring and the best placed team from each province not already in from last year replaces the 4 worst teams from the previous year's top 20. I think this would ensure teams in the lower reaches of the provinces have an incentive to win games against each other in the provincial leagues as a method of getting into the top tier summer competition.

The teams not in the summer "top tier" comp should also have something to play for in the summer so maybe a B All Ireland is needed.

walshie78 (Mayo) - Posts: 3 - 17/07/2014 10:49:19    1620499

Well, he could submit a motion to congress through his club if that's how he feels.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7840 - 17/07/2014 10:51:51    1620501

What about the following?? -

Provincial League
Connaught - 6 teams (inc London) play each other Home and Away = 10 Games
Same for Munster
Leinster - 11 teams - all play each other once - 10 games
Ulster - 9 teams - all play each other once - 8 games

So Ulster has 2 games less but obviously with the fact that we are the most competitive province will balance that problem :-0

The league positions would then be used to make seedings for the 8 * 4 Champions League format

First 2 in each Province = Number 1 seeds
3rd place in Connacht and Munster and 3rd - 5th in Ulster/Leinster are the 2nd seeds
4th - 5th place in Connacht and Munster and 6th -7th in Ulster/Leinster are the 3rd seeds
Bottom 1 in Connaught/Munster, bottom 2 in Ulster and bottom 4 in Leinster would be the 4th seeds

Top 2 in each group go through

Timelines
Provincial League - Mid - February - Mid - May (13/14 weeks to play the 8-10 games)
Championship League - Start of June for whole month
Last 16 - Middle 2 weekends of July - 4 games each weekend
Last 8 in its usual spot.
Last 4 - 2 weeks later.
Final - the last (bank holiday??) weekend in August - gives extra 3-4 weeks to the club scene....

Obviously there are issues with it (Too many of Leinster in the bottom tier, New York out of the championship, fitting it in with Hurling/clubs) but Rome wasn't built in a day!!

RunOfThePigs (Donegal) - Posts: 131 - 17/07/2014 11:02:28    1620506

Straight away I see a problem if we are talking about Provincial Leagues as being the 4 provinces in their current guise and 5 teams qualifying from each.

While it could be an advantage for the like of Antrim for example to play in a league against Ulster teams facing stronger opposition than they would in Division 4 you would have to fancy that they would not get near the into the top 5 whereas the like of Galway who they knocked out of the Championship two years ago would probably waltz through to the All Ireland series every year in Connacht.

I understand that there is an element of retaining a Provincial prize in this proposal but what I would instead suggest is that all teams are ranked 1 to 32 or whatever at the end of the season and then a seeded draw takes place with 1-4 seeds drawn out first into different leagues and so on.

This way you would have 4 leagues of similar quality throughout, weaker teams would have a chance to play against better teams and the top 5 from each could then progress to the All Ireland series as Whelam suggested. That way it should freshen up your league and Championship and remove the disparity that comes with being from a particular province.

The McKenna Cup, McGrath Cup etc could become your provincial Championship and teams then could decide if they wanted to use that for blooding players or going out to win it.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 17/07/2014 11:04:30    1620508

There is no chance this would be implemented. Any system where the Connaught counties and all but 1 Munster county are guaranteed to qualify for summer football, while 4 ulster counties and over half the Leinster counties aren't is more inherently unfair then the current system.

Remove the cycle of matching provinces such as Ulster/Leinster and Munster/Connaught this year. Make it an open draw in the qualifiers and suddenly we have a more much more exciting and unpredictable championship. Have the draw live on television on the Sunday game and create a bit of hype over rather then at 8.30am on radio. I shouldn't know that if we beat Roscommon on Sat, we will likely play Meath and then Monaghan/Donegal in the quarter final.

JP91 (Armagh) - Posts: 316 - 17/07/2014 11:06:45    1620509

Greenfield,You can't lose your provincial title after being knocked out in the All-Ireland qualifers. For example when Kildare beat Meath in the 2010 All Ireland quarter final, Meath still retained their Leinster title. Kildare didn't take it from them.

lilywhite1 (Kildare) - Posts: 2989 - 17/07/2014 11:07:01    1620510

@RunOfThePigs - your idea isn't bad. A former GAA president, from Ulster I believe, suggested provincial groups.

One group in both Munster and Connaught. Two groups in Leinster and Ulster + London. Have top 2 in Munster and Connaught in the provincial final. Top 2 in Ulster and Leinster in semi-finals. Provincial winners into AI quarter-finals. Provincial runners-up play-off against Ulster and Leinster semi-finalists for a quarter-final spot.

Provincial groups could start in April. Run a shorter league in February and March e.g. division 1 with two even groups of 6 with top team straight into league final.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7840 - 17/07/2014 11:35:00    1620533

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzOFc1Wdc6M

I put this together which I think brings some of everybody's ideas into a modern championship. ENJOY!!!

Wmdg (Tipperary) - Posts: 14 - 17/07/2014 11:43:02    1620539

32 county open draw - Played alongside Provencial's

Final 4 play beaten Provencial Finalists - Any double ups recieve Byes

Winners play Provencial Winners - Any double ups recieve Byes

Every team can win the All Ireland in the same number of games

shea (Kerry) - Posts: 409 - 17/07/2014 12:16:29    1620552

lilywhite1
County: Kildare
Posts: 1998

1620510 Greenfield,You can't lose your provincial title after being knocked out in the All-Ireland qualifers. For example when Kildare beat Meath in the 2010 All Ireland quarter final, Meath still retained their Leinster title. Kildare didn't take it from them.

Technically that's true. But at the end of the year can you look back and say you were the best team in your province when you got knocked out by a team from the same province? To me that would have been the only benefit of winning a provincial title without an all Ireland to go with it.

Greenfield (Meath) - Posts: 522 - 17/07/2014 12:21:31    1620559

To elaborate on an earlier point:

The Championship could start off with provincial groups:
Munster: Kerry, Cork, Tipperary, Clare, Limerick & Waterford
Connaught: Mayo, Galway, Roscommon, Sligo & Leitrim

For Leinster and Ulster + London, there will have to be two groups in each province, how they are determined each year is up for debate:
Ulster A: Donegal, Tyrone, Derry, Cavan & Fermanagh
Ulster B: Monaghan, Armagh, Down, Antrim& London
Leinster A: Dublin, Kildare, Laois, Wicklow & Carlow
Leinster B: Meath, Wexford, Longford, Westmeath

* Top 2 in Munster and Connaught into provincial finals.
* Top 2 of each group in Leinster and Ulster into provincial semi-finals.
* Provincial winners into All-Ireland quarter-finals.
* 4 provincial runners-up drawn against 4 Leinster & Ulster semi-final losers in a play-off to make the quarter-finals.

Debatable suggestion then on the league:
The top 2 teams from each of the 6 provincial groups should enter a 12 team Division 1 the following spring - split into two groups of 6. The top team in each group to contest the Division 1 final.
Teams 3rd and 4th in each group should enter a 12 team Division 2 the following spring - also split into two groups of 6 teams. The top team in each group to contest the Division 2 final.
The remainder of the teams then to contest Division 3.

The league could be run off as preparation for the championship in February and March. Six weekends, with gap weekends, for 5 regular league games and the division final. As there are 6 provincial groups and 6 teams in a league group, have 1 team from each provincial group in the league group so as to keep the competion fresh between the league and championship.

The provincial groups could start in April. All counties guaranteed at least 4 championship games, 2 at home and 2 away.

This will keep the provinces as they are, with the exception of London joining Ulster. It will bring in the much sought after group stage while maintaining the provincial structure.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7840 - 18/07/2014 21:10:27    1621344

legendzxix that looks super and best of everything.. would be great to see

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 18/07/2014 21:25:29    1621355

legendzxix that looks super and best of everything.. would be great to see

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 18/07/2014 21:26:03    1621356

Its difficult as one fit wont suit all objectives but the current format is extremely flawed and i think most people agree with that. The championship only really kicks into gear as a knockout competition in the August bank holiday weekend and thats a view held by many people. The idea of stagnation is creeping in and its not good for the game. I do think its time to get rid of the current provincial system and introduce a northern/southern/western and eastern system at the very least.

The 4 groups of eight would work too as a means to bring the league into the championship as a seeding method but i imagine the powers that be will not tear up the blueprint and start again. I think the altered approach is much more likely to work if the general consensus supports it. I also think some smaller counties should be allowed amalgamate if they choose to do so, those below what i and others referred to as a threshold population that inhibits success.

seany16 (Dublin) - Posts: 1658 - 18/07/2014 21:36:45    1621359

Whelans is an okay idea. I'd modify the number qualifying from each province. Shouldn't be same number from Connacht and Leinster.

But look, any setup would be better than the current setup which has most of the matches played in the secondary tournaments and with half the teams gone by middle of the summer.

At the moment the main winners from the championship setup are rugby and the English Premiership.

tyroneed (Tyrone) - Posts: 753 - 18/07/2014 21:38:59    1621362

South: Kerry, Cork, Tipperary, Clare, Waterford, Limerick, Wexford, Laois
West: Mayo, Galway, Sligo, Leitrim, Roscommon Donegal, Longford, Westmeath
North: Fermanagh, Derry, Tyrone, Antrim, Down, Armagh, Cavan, Monaghan
Leinster: Louth, Dublin, Meath, Kildare, Wicklow, Carlow, Offaly, London

Equitable provinces, same format for everyone, easier to organise. Would help a lot.

Treaty_Exile (Limerick) - Posts: 386 - 18/07/2014 21:44:43    1621369

Equitable is good. The option to even provinces was rejected by central council this year. Seems a non-runner for that reason. Provincial groups draws influence from most options.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7840 - 18/07/2014 21:58:53    1621383

Gosh - I just realised, I don't have much to say - except my plan is the BEST !

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2581 - 19/07/2014 14:44:07    1621493