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whatever the result of the game in Portlaoise tonight, this is the reason we should never have a xB Championship. The format we have is excellent , 4 divisions , the league is now a lot more than just trying out new players. it is particularly important for team lower down to aspire upwards.
As a proud Carlow person I am really looking forward to to night, not bothered what we lose by. I know Carlow football is improving and we have good systems in place and we work as hard as anyone. As John Murphy said in interview , its days like this inspire the next generations. So let's leave the system alone and get on with improving. Bottom line is we beat Wexford and the prize is a night out against probably the best team of the last 30 years. Love it.
While I am on I also feel the Hurling structure should also be a simple 4 divisions and this will generate more improvement all round.
Blackbog (Carlow) - Posts: 704 - 03/06/2017 07:07:45
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Replying To Blackbog: "whatever the result of the game in Portlaoise tonight, this is the reason we should never have a xB Championship. The format we have is excellent , 4 divisions , the league is now a lot more than just trying out new players. it is particularly important for team lower down to aspire upwards.
As a proud Carlow person I am really looking forward to to night, not bothered what we lose by. I know Carlow football is improving and we have good systems in place and we work as hard as anyone. As John Murphy said in interview , its days like this inspire the next generations. So let's leave the system alone and get on with improving. Bottom line is we beat Wexford and the prize is a night out against probably the best team of the last 30 years. Love it.
While I am on I also feel the Hurling structure should also be a simple 4 divisions and this will generate more improvement all round." I couldn't agree more.
The one change I'd make would be to push the leagues back so that they start in March and finish on May Day. Straight into championship then.
I don't think people from stronger counties know what it is inspires young people to want to play.
For me it was going to Ulster championship games and the big crowd there. We didn't win a game until I was 14 but there was nothing like the championship. I can't see even a B championship final getting 10k-15k people going to them.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4211 - 03/06/2017 09:10:31
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Replying To Blackbog: "whatever the result of the game in Portlaoise tonight, this is the reason we should never have a xB Championship. The format we have is excellent , 4 divisions , the league is now a lot more than just trying out new players. it is particularly important for team lower down to aspire upwards.
As a proud Carlow person I am really looking forward to to night, not bothered what we lose by. I know Carlow football is improving and we have good systems in place and we work as hard as anyone. As John Murphy said in interview , its days like this inspire the next generations. So let's leave the system alone and get on with improving. Bottom line is we beat Wexford and the prize is a night out against probably the best team of the last 30 years. Love it.
While I am on I also feel the Hurling structure should also be a simple 4 divisions and this will generate more improvement all round." good post and spot on, well said
Stmunnsriver (Wexford) - Posts: 2841 - 03/06/2017 09:58:57
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Agree with everyone above.
In my view, if there is to be a A and B championship like some media snobs say (some of whom come from counties with delusions about their true status) then if it was to be properly graded there would be no more than three (possibly four, five at a max) in the A leaving all the remainder in the B. Whatever beating Carlow get tonight is unlikely to be much greater than that which would be suffered by some teams who played in division 2 of the league this year, if not division 1 (Roscommon?). For example I don't think anyone would seriously suggest a county like Kildare (or Roscommon to be fair) should be in a B championship but they suffered an anihalation at the hands of Kerry a couple of years ago. Notions of a 16/16 split are just laughable when it is plainly obvious that teams ranked from at least 6 or 7 to about 30 (if not 32) are reasonably even in that any of the lower ranked could and have beaten higher ranked in the championship (or at the very least are competitive).
Onion Breath (Carlow) - Posts: 1412 - 03/06/2017 11:42:49
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Romantic Ireland is not dead and gone! Its in the qualifiers.
bugsie (Leitrim) - Posts: 199 - 03/06/2017 12:41:12
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I listened to the RTE GAA podcast a few weeks ago, and Sean Kelly was again pushing a B championship. Just imagine what a B championship would contain for the bottom 16 counties. Attendances are already horrendous, and they would be virtually 0, with this system. look at the Division 3 and 4 leagues, and the lack of coverage they get. Newspapers give both divisions about a paragraph of coverage, and as for league Sunday, another embarrassment. Tomorrow we play Meath in a local derby, and the Sunday game will condense the game down to a 2 minute report. Many counties are already being belittled, without a competition that offers them nothing more than obscurity.
PK57 (Louth) - Posts: 1653 - 03/06/2017 13:03:11
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So you think getting hammered tonight by 20+ points will inspire the next generation??
Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 912 - 03/06/2017 14:33:14
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Hang on a second. The likes of Carlow should be guaranteed a possible shot at a big team every year.
A top 16 in 4 groups of 4 should consist of 8 provincial finalists and qualifiers.
Teams not advancing to the top 16 should have the option to enter a second championship, with the winner guaranteed a top 16 place in the following year.
A team like Carlow shou they lose to Dublin, would still get a second chance at making the top 16 through the qualifiers. If the fall short, a second championship can afford them more opportunities to develop with the carrot of a top 16 place in the following year on offer.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7838 - 03/06/2017 15:12:33
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Replying To Wally: "So you think getting hammered tonight by 20+ points will inspire the next generation??" Yeah.
This is what you guys from stronger counties don't get. The Carlows and Antrims of this world know we're not going to win the championship so we have low expectations and aren't especially disappointed by those sorts of things.
The kids will see their team warming up, possibly know some of the players from their club. They're playing in a full stadium. Who knows they mightn't even get a drubbing.
Carlow could very easily not have been up against Dublin with a different draw and could be going to Meath or Kildare where on a good day they could give them a rattle.
You guys don't understand. Yet you will want to force through these B championship proposals. CPA are sticking their oar into it also despite the GPA study saying county players enjoy the provincial championship.
It's really annoying truth be told.
I'm a decent enough Gael but I couldn't really see myself attending B championship games other than maybe a final, It takes a proper reason for me to miss Ulster championship.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4211 - 03/06/2017 15:18:41
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The thing about B Championships is that they should be optional rather than compulsory.
If they offer a carrot of top tier qualification in the following year, it'll be a respectable prize and hard for too many to turn their noses up at the opportunity.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7838 - 03/06/2017 16:04:35
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Replying To Wally: "So you think getting hammered tonight by 20+ points will inspire the next generation??" You miss th point wally . We as other small counties are just as passionate as the tyrones of this world and memories are made with days like these, good memories , the trip to the game, the build up ,the colour, and a realism that we are not in the same league but every dog has its day, so come off your pedastle as be mindful of the real world and what makes our national games great.
Blackbog (Carlow) - Posts: 704 - 03/06/2017 16:35:52
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Replying To Wally: "So you think getting hammered tonight by 20+ points will inspire the next generation??" You miss th point wally . We as other small counties are just as passionate as the tyrones of this world and memories are made with days like these, good memories , the trip to the game, the build up ,the colour, and a realism that we are not in the same league but every dog has its day, so come off your pedastle as be mindful of the real world and what makes our national games great.
Blackbog (Carlow) - Posts: 704 - 03/06/2017 16:36:00
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Replying To Whammo86: "Yeah.
This is what you guys from stronger counties don't get. The Carlows and Antrims of this world know we're not going to win the championship so we have low expectations and aren't especially disappointed by those sorts of things.
The kids will see their team warming up, possibly know some of the players from their club. They're playing in a full stadium. Who knows they mightn't even get a drubbing.
Carlow could very easily not have been up against Dublin with a different draw and could be going to Meath or Kildare where on a good day they could give them a rattle.
You guys don't understand. Yet you will want to force through these B championship proposals. CPA are sticking their oar into it also despite the GPA study saying county players enjoy the provincial championship.
It's really annoying truth be told.
I'm a decent enough Gael but I couldn't really see myself attending B championship games other than maybe a final, It takes a proper reason for me to miss Ulster championship." Bang on. Great post.
Blackbog (Carlow) - Posts: 704 - 03/06/2017 16:38:07
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Replying To Blackbog: "You miss th point wally . We as other small counties are just as passionate as the tyrones of this world and memories are made with days like these, good memories , the trip to the game, the build up ,the colour, and a realism that we are not in the same league but every dog has its day, so come off your pedastle as be mindful of the real world and what makes our national games great." I won't claim we're a massive team, but Meath gave Carlow a 28 point tanking in Carlow 2 or 3 years ago with a pretty crowded stadium, with plenty of Carlow club players etc. on show. I find it hard to believe any Carlow gaels left Dr. Cullen Park with good memories and inspired passion for their county that day.
CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1643 - 03/06/2017 17:33:21
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I'm a Kerry hurling supporter as well so I can relate to Antrim and Carlow football supporters.
I say it again, it will suit football to have 4 groups of 4 and it will suit hurling to have 2 groups of 4. Both the football and hurling group stages should consist of provincial finalists and qualifiers.
It will suit both the football and hurling championships to have second championships. Being optional is the best policy for it with the carrot of a group stage place in the following year.
A similar format already works quite well in European club rugby and soccer. The Football Top 16 and Hurling Top 8 will be like the Champions Cup / Champions League. The second championships in both codes will be like the Challenge Cup / Europa League. When there's a decent template for competition structure as an example, it's pointless plumping for other more convoluted structures.
If the GAA apply the above, we can park the competition format discussion and get on with the game as many of us are doing already.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7838 - 03/06/2017 17:43:22
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Replying To CastleBravo: "I won't claim we're a massive team, but Meath gave Carlow a 28 point tanking in Carlow 2 or 3 years ago with a pretty crowded stadium, with plenty of Carlow club players etc. on show. I find it hard to believe any Carlow gaels left Dr. Cullen Park with good memories and inspired passion for their county that day." There was only 5000 at the game, against Meath , very poor atmosphere, Carlow dominated for long periods but had no cohesion. It is not all about winning, that game saw Broderick as an important addition to Carlow and he has proven great value ever since.
Blackbog (Carlow) - Posts: 704 - 03/06/2017 18:08:55
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If hurling are getting a provincial group stage, why can't football have the same?
Munster - 1 group of 6.
Connaught - 1 group of 5.
Leinster - 1 group of 5 and 1 group of 6.
Ulster + London - 2 groups of 6.
- All teams guaranteed at least 2 home games.
- Provincial winners advance to quarter-finals.
- Qualifier Round 1: Leinster and Ulster semi-final losers drawn against 3rd placed teams. (Leinster's two 3rd placed teams and Ulster's two 3rd placed teams would have to playoff in a preliminary round.)
- Qualifier Round 2: 4 provincial runners-up drawn against 4 Qualifier Round 1 winners.
- All-Ireland quarter-finals: 4 provincial champions drawn against 4 Qualifier Round 2 winners.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7838 - 04/06/2017 10:29:34
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Replying To legendzxix: "I'm a Kerry hurling supporter as well so I can relate to Antrim and Carlow football supporters.
I say it again, it will suit football to have 4 groups of 4 and it will suit hurling to have 2 groups of 4. Both the football and hurling group stages should consist of provincial finalists and qualifiers.
It will suit both the football and hurling championships to have second championships. Being optional is the best policy for it with the carrot of a group stage place in the following year.
A similar format already works quite well in European club rugby and soccer. The Football Top 16 and Hurling Top 8 will be like the Champions Cup / Champions League. The second championships in both codes will be like the Challenge Cup / Europa League. When there's a decent template for competition structure as an example, it's pointless plumping for other more convoluted structures.
If the GAA apply the above, we can park the competition format discussion and get on with the game as many of us are doing already." Why would you have a top 16 in football when clearly there are no more than three, possible five at a push, who are good enough to compete at the very top level i.e. capable of winning it. The gap between division 2 teams and division 4 teams is less than the gap with top division one teams. A properly graded A and B championship would have three in the A and 29 in the B.
Onion Breath (Carlow) - Posts: 1412 - 04/06/2017 11:08:52
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Replying To Onion Breath: "Why would you have a top 16 in football when clearly there are no more than three, possible five at a push, who are good enough to compete at the very top level i.e. capable of winning it. The gap between division 2 teams and division 4 teams is less than the gap with top division one teams. A properly graded A and B championship would have three in the A and 29 in the B." This is my problem with the whole 16 and 16 split idea.
The intercounty scene is very competitive outside of Dublin, Kerry and to a lesser extent Mayo, Tyrone and Donegal.
Monaghan are probably the 6th best team in the country and there's more chance of them being beaten by a division 4 team than them beating Dublin in the championship.
There are better systems than the current AI where the qualifiers are unfair on Ulster and Leinster teams, but I don't see the problem that tiering solves.
Dublin will walk Leinster again even though the Leinster championship still has 2 other teams that'd be in the top 12 in Ireland.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4211 - 04/06/2017 11:30:54
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Replying To Onion Breath: "Why would you have a top 16 in football when clearly there are no more than three, possible five at a push, who are good enough to compete at the very top level i.e. capable of winning it. The gap between division 2 teams and division 4 teams is less than the gap with top division one teams. A properly graded A and B championship would have three in the A and 29 in the B." I want to replace Rounds 3 and 4 of the qualifiers with 4 groups of 4 consisting of the 8 provincial finalists and qualifiers counties.
Top 16 is just being used as a term in this context to describe the final 16 stage.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7838 - 04/06/2017 15:08:10
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