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Pairc Ui Chaoimh

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Lets be honest here, how many games was PUC going to get where things like corporate entertainment were going to be required? The Munster Football final every 2nd year and a few Munster hurling matches. That is it. I mean, where were the Cork Co. Boards heads when they thought about this? Croke Park gets games from June till September, so I get the demand there. I just don't get where the Cork Co. Board thought they needed this. What they needed was a 50k seater stadium without all these swish boxes which will sit idle for 350+ days a year. StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1732 - 17/12/2018 12:04:41 2154475 Link
Replying To bloodyban: "Cork GAA commissioned a feasability study for the new stadium before submitting the plans to aid transparency ect. One of Irelands top accountancy companies was sourced to do this study and reported back to the Cork County board executive or member of the executive. The report..was less optimistic than anyone who was pushing the new stadium expected. 2 of the reason was that the revenue streams wouldnt be there to generate the income necessary and Geographically it wasn't readily accessible to other Munster counties . This report was suppressed. The guy who did it was thanked and the company paid. That my friends is Ireland." This doesn't surprise me I've heard of similar before.. it's not surprising to see your post largely ignored All the evidence was there from previous projects Various excellent articles written on this subject which I posted on the White Elephant thread. jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 17/12/2018 12:47:02 2154483 Link
Time for the PAC, Dept of Sport & media to step in & start asking the hard questions here, especially in light of the €30 Million investment of Taxpayers money. It is beyond incredulity at this stage that we now have two completely contradictory stories. This is not Monopoly money or the local Ballymagash committee, this is a multi million project. When you see two contradictory stories, you know that the questions such as, who was project managing this, did Croke Park have any oversight on it & their €20 Million investment, were tendering processes above board, who costed the project & was all advice followed, where was the overspend, these questions will never be answered. Any future funding should be withheld till all questions are answered. The two stories going at the moment throw the whole credibility of the Association into question. Uimhir.a.3. (Galway) - Posts: 409 - 17/12/2018 13:00:14 2154487 Link
The Cork county chairman says the cost of PUC stands at 86 million. The media reports last week said its 110 million. Someone is telling fibs. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 17/12/2018 13:24:10 2154493 Link
Replying To Uimhir.a.3.: "Time for the PAC, Dept of Sport & media to step in & start asking the hard questions here, especially in light of the €30 Million investment of Taxpayers money. It is beyond incredulity at this stage that we now have two completely contradictory stories. This is not Monopoly money or the local Ballymagash committee, this is a multi million project. When you see two contradictory stories, you know that the questions such as, who was project managing this, did Croke Park have any oversight on it & their €20 Million investment, were tendering processes above board, who costed the project & was all advice followed, where was the overspend, these questions will never be answered. Any future funding should be withheld till all questions are answered. The two stories going at the moment throw the whole credibility of the Association into question." I very much agree. jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 17/12/2018 13:41:20 2154502 Link
Replying To suckvalleypaddy: "I'm for PUC being redeveloped and glad HQ are helping, this is all good. Now we need to show parity to Pearse Stadium and Casement Park to get the 21st century rolling." instead of developing grounds that are in locations that are unlikely to hold anything other than provincial games, would it not make a bit more sense to develop a stadium in the midlands. Galway, Cork, Belfast are all thriving cities, would a stadium somewhere round Offaly/Westmeath/Laois not be a better option and maybe spread they wealth to somewhere it is probably more needed. Rosineri1 (UK) - Posts: 2099 - 17/12/2018 13:43:45 2154503 Link
Replying To TheUsername: "The Cork county chairman says the cost of PUC stands at 86 million. The media reports last week said its 110 million. Someone is telling fibs." sure whats 24m among friends...... perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 17/12/2018 15:17:03 2154517 Link
Stadium redevelopment budget over run shocker! It happens all the time. Lansdowne Rd over ran by about 60million iirc. MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13707 - 17/12/2018 19:29:48 2154546 Link
Replying To MesAmis: "Stadium redevelopment budget over run shocker! It happens all the time. Lansdowne Rd over ran by about 60million iirc." It's interesting comparing the two. The Lansdowne rebuild was 441 million for a capacity of 51.700k PUC rebuild 86million or 110 million (depending on who you believe) for a capacity 45.000k. Croke Park came in at 260 million for a capacity of 82.300k. I tend to agree you with you, capital infrastructure builds inevitably go over budget. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 17/12/2018 20:25:49 2154550 Link
PUC is a beautiful stadium and it has great facilities , I can't wait to head down there again next summer with gods help and maybe even for concert someday. KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 17/12/2018 22:30:39 2154565 Link
Pairc Ui Chaoimh is a wonderful stadium that cost next to nothing, in comparison to Lansdowne road. It will benefit the people of Munster and Cork for years to come. Corcaigh abú. Cork is Ireland's third city. After Dublin and Belfast. Well done to Cork county board. galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2519 - 17/12/2018 22:46:32 2154567 Link
The govt has given other sporting organization hundreds of million to develope stadia. galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2519 - 17/12/2018 22:49:52 2154568 Link
Replying To TheUsername: "It's interesting comparing the two. The Lansdowne rebuild was 441 million for a capacity of 51.700k PUC rebuild 86million or 110 million (depending on who you believe) for a capacity 45.000k. Croke Park came in at 260 million for a capacity of 82.300k. I tend to agree you with you, capital infrastructure builds inevitably go over budget." That Lansdowne rebuild was an awful price for the capacity it has, and not much chance of that capacity increasing either, a smaller rebuild for the soccer team, Leinster rugby and a few select internationals and use Croker for the big days out would have made far more sense there Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3734 - 18/12/2018 00:22:24 2154574 Link
Replying To TheUsername: "It's interesting comparing the two. The Lansdowne rebuild was 441 million for a capacity of 51.700k PUC rebuild 86million or 110 million (depending on who you believe) for a capacity 45.000k. Croke Park came in at 260 million for a capacity of 82.300k. I tend to agree you with you, capital infrastructure builds inevitably go over budget." Tendered price on a build like that is a baseline or an educated guess if you will. Mistakes in the plans will be uncovered, genuine unforeseeable issues will arise, labour and materials go up, specs are changed etc etc there are so many variables it's crazy. I saw on the news last week that Tottenham's new stadium is running 30% over budget as an example. I have yet to hear of anything on that scale coming in on budget there should be 10-15% contingency minimum on a build like this. Depending on who you believe that was probably exceeded in this case of PUC and the whole things looks to have been badly managed from the off. I still think all the tut tutting on here is a bit much. Cork are a major GAA county with a big population and have almost always competed at the top level in both sports. Why shouldn't they have a proper stadium. GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 18/12/2018 01:08:07 2154576 Link
Replying To Richieq: "That Lansdowne rebuild was an awful price for the capacity it has, and not much chance of that capacity increasing either, a smaller rebuild for the soccer team, Leinster rugby and a few select internationals and use Croker for the big days out would have made far more sense there" Yes because that's how corporate suites, 10 year tickets etc work isn't it....oh and the home venue thing.... StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1732 - 18/12/2018 09:25:41 2154580 Link
It is not just about the scale of the over-run it is the ability of the GAA to service that. All the other projects like the AVIA, Croke Park, Premiership League grounds etc etc are not applicable here. All those projects listed have organisations who have a serious ability to pay and service the over runs. The more debt an organisation has the less it has to spend its the laws of economic gravity which seems to defy most Irish people. It will be the death knell for renovations to county grounds in Kildare, Meath, Antrim, Wicklow, Warerford. Plus the GAA will have to earn more, so no more moaning about the Dubs home advantages, there is money to be earned to pay for others ineptitude. arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4896 - 18/12/2018 10:01:05 2154583 Link
Replying To GeniusGerry: "Tendered price on a build like that is a baseline or an educated guess if you will. Mistakes in the plans will be uncovered, genuine unforeseeable issues will arise, labour and materials go up, specs are changed etc etc there are so many variables it's crazy. I saw on the news last week that Tottenham's new stadium is running 30% over budget as an example. I have yet to hear of anything on that scale coming in on budget there should be 10-15% contingency minimum on a build like this. Depending on who you believe that was probably exceeded in this case of PUC and the whole things looks to have been badly managed from the off. I still think all the tut tutting on here is a bit much. Cork are a major GAA county with a big population and have almost always competed at the top level in both sports. Why shouldn't they have a proper stadium." I have to agree Gerry, part of me thinks by the reaction of the key stakeholders in the project that this wasn't totally unexpected if i am being honest. I still think it is a fantastic asset that will pay for itself many times over, its good to hear you are at conference there, in the addition to gigs, premium tickets, corporate facilities to supplement GAA revenue i still believe it will prove a fantastic asset and one worthy of its outlay from a commercial point of view. From a sporting perspective Munster as a region needed and deserves this facility, to many games are funneled toward Croke Park and given Munsters profile in Hurling and the amount of trips Kerry and Cork have had to make in football over the years to Dublin and the distance involved in my opinion its only sporting equity that a modern stadium should be in Munster that can host quarter final/semi final games or act as a neutral venue for all the controversy around the football quarter finals this year, hopefully the GAA will see the same. As i said before i would like to see similar projects developed in Connacht and Ulster. It also makes perfect sense that Cork should have a marquee stadium, they have the infrastructure to hold big events, transport links - roads, rail, hotel infrastructure, amenities, policing etc. From a financial point of view, the funding model to finance this was dynamic. Taxpayer funding came to €30m, Croke Park added €20m, the Cork County Board had savings of €10m and Munster Council provided an additional €3.75m and that comes to around €63.75m. That leaves a shortfall of almost €50m - if the figure is 110 million, but that is question. Cork GAA plan to sell a 20-acre area of land at Kilbarry, that was rezoned from light industrial to development in 2017, and that is expected to take in between €15-20m. It still leaves €30m outstanding, if the figure in the media is true. From my point of morally, i would far prefer that tax payers money is used on developing infrastructure nationally n the GAA as a fantastic community association and raising the profile nationally in its biggest urban centers, then say propping up failed insurance companies, paying bond holders etc. As for the GAA now coming into manage the stadium and taking on the burden of the debt, if that is true - which seems questionable. Croke Park are getting a 45k stadium in the heart of Cork City for a cost of 60 million (if the 110million), as these things go that is quite the snip, which is why i think the key stakeholders in this arent that surprised or dissapointed. If PUC is run the same way Croke Park is as a facility holistically, its only going to be a fantastic asset to the GAA. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 18/12/2018 10:16:42 2154585 Link
Cork will rise again. The South will rise again. galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2519 - 18/12/2018 10:18:41 2154586 Link
Replying To galwayford: "Pairc Ui Chaoimh is a wonderful stadium that cost next to nothing, in comparison to Lansdowne road. It will benefit the people of Munster and Cork for years to come. Corcaigh abú. Cork is Ireland's third city. After Dublin and Belfast. Well done to Cork county board." Limerick is Ireland's 3rd city after Dublin and Cork. bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 18/12/2018 11:03:53 2154592 Link
Replying To arock: "It is not just about the scale of the over-run it is the ability of the GAA to service that. All the other projects like the AVIA, Croke Park, Premiership League grounds etc etc are not applicable here. All those projects listed have organisations who have a serious ability to pay and service the over runs. The more debt an organisation has the less it has to spend its the laws of economic gravity which seems to defy most Irish people. It will be the death knell for renovations to county grounds in Kildare, Meath, Antrim, Wicklow, Warerford. Plus the GAA will have to earn more, so no more moaning about the Dubs home advantages, there is money to be earned to pay for others ineptitude." I understand that point of view but trying to play everything of any significance in Croke Park is not working and will not work in the long term. The vast majority of GAA fans are not from Dublin. You are making a big assumption there that Dublin are paying for everything. How much of total GAA revenue is driven by Dublin? Do you even have a ballpark idea? GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 18/12/2018 11:34:20 2154595 Link