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Statistically, that's not accurate. The average amount of black cards per game in 2018 has been 1.00 (i.e. exactly 1 per game). For 2017, it was 1.10. For 2016, it was 1.23. For 2015, it was 1.02. For the last four finals, its been 1.5 - well up on the average. link Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 15/08/2018 14:33:59 2133603 Link 0 |
This is to be expected when finals are very tight as players will 'take a black card for the team'. In last year's final there probably should have been 4 or 5 black cards in the last minute or two.
neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 15/08/2018 16:04:44 2133639 Link 0 |
Thanks for sharing that, where are you getting the finals stats from? How many of the black cards in finals were in injury time? I guess my main gripe is referees are not making the brave calls earlier in games. I don't know how McNamee's tackle was not a black card on Sunday for instance. Harte was able to sub him off shortly after that. Referees seem to use it inconsistently. Robbie Kiely's black against Mayo in 2016 was extremely harsh and went a long way to deciding the outcome of the game. I don't think the black card in its current form properly addresses cynical play like what Dublin did against Mayo in injury time last year. Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 15/08/2018 16:38:30 2133651 Link 0 |
The guys who attend county Board meetings do not represent players-maybe that is why the club association (and GPA)was formed. In theory you are correct but in practice you are incorrect. Club players never voted for such a stupid rule-turkeys do not vote for Christmas either.
browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2340 - 16/08/2018 01:38:07 2133740 Link 2 |
Where are you getting the finals stats from? The link to the article is on the original post. Here's the url: https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaa-statistics-four-players-walking-black-card-tightrope-1.3583559 How many of the black cards in finals were in injury time? One (Kilkenny's last year). The times the others were given were: 21', 24', 35', 41' and 59' I don't know how McNamee's tackle was not a black card on Sunday for instance In real time it certainly looked like a black card. I can only imagine the linesman, who was closer than the ref, communicated that McCarthy somewhat manufactured the pull down by grabbing McNamee's arm. At least, I'd like to think that's what happened. I don't think the black card in its current form properly addresses cynical play like what Dublin did against Mayo in injury time last year That's a fair point. However, I'm not really sure what other punishment could have been given in the circumstances. It was a goal kick to Mayo so I don't know how the ball could have been moved up for a free, for example. The black card isn't a perfect punishment but I'd be open to hearing alternatives in such situations. Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 16/08/2018 10:55:27 2133791 Link 1 |
Why would it not be the same for a very close game in, arbitrarily, the Ulster quarter finals? The common consensus here is that players will do anything to win, including taking a black card for the team. Only one player in those four finals was black carded in the closing stages. The times the black cards were given in the finals were: 2015 - 59' 2016 - 24' Replay - 21', 35', 41' 2017 - 75' Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 16/08/2018 10:55:49 2133793 Link 1 |
Not saying I have the solution but have always thought that the notion of the black card was to discourage cynical fouling. DLGael (Donegal) - Posts: 111 - 16/08/2018 11:20:47 2133800 Link 1 |
I backed the black card when it came in because the off the ball blocking and pulling down had gotten ridiculous, has it worked? I think to some degree it has or at least was working. It had cut out a lot of the blocking of runs off the ball and cut back on back chat. Negatives for me are bad calls by refs and that's why I wouldnt like a last minute free given; of course refs aren't helped by players grabbing arms and pulling the defender to the ground and winning a free for it with the defender black carded. Solutions - let each linesman watch a half for off the ball stuff and use the 4th official to review carding incidents. Pulling a player back by the jersey when he's through on goal should be a black regardless if the attacker is pulled to ground or not, the choke tackle is well executed by a lot of teams also lillyboy (Kildare) - Posts: 429 - 16/08/2018 13:13:45 2133832 Link 0 |
Why would it not be the same for a very close game in, arbitrarily, the Ulster quarter finals? The common consensus here is that players will do anything to win, including taking a black card for the team. Only one player in those four finals was black carded in the closing stages. The times the black cards were given in the finals were: 2015 - 59' 2016 - 24' Replay - 21', 35', 41' 2017 - 75'"]Or in an All-Ireland final such as 2017? neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 16/08/2018 20:18:31 2133943 Link 0 |
Why would it not be the same for a very close game in, arbitrarily, the Ulster quarter finals? The common consensus here is that players will do anything to win, including taking a black card for the team. Only one player in those four finals was black carded in the closing stages. The times the black cards were given in the finals were: 2015 - 59' 2016 - 24' Replay - 21', 35', 41' 2017 - 75'"]Or in an All-Ireland final such as 2017?"]Not being smart but I don't know what point you're trying to make. Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 17/08/2018 11:12:22 2134013 Link 0 |
Why would it not be the same for a very close game in, arbitrarily, the Ulster quarter finals? The common consensus here is that players will do anything to win, including taking a black card for the team. Only one player in those four finals was black carded in the closing stages. The times the black cards were given in the finals were: 2015 - 59' 2016 - 24' Replay - 21', 35', 41' 2017 - 75'"]Or in an All-Ireland final such as 2017?"]Not being smart but I don't know what point you're trying to make."]Could not understand why you would reference an Ulster Quarter- Final when there was an obvious example closer to home. neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 17/08/2018 11:33:58 2134019 Link 0 |
Why would it not be the same for a very close game in, arbitrarily, the Ulster quarter finals? The common consensus here is that players will do anything to win, including taking a black card for the team. Only one player in those four finals was black carded in the closing stages. The times the black cards were given in the finals were: 2015 - 59' 2016 - 24' Replay - 21', 35', 41' 2017 - 75'"]Or in an All-Ireland final such as 2017?"]Not being smart but I don't know what point you're trying to make."]Could not understand why you would reference an Ulster Quarter- Final when there was an obvious example closer to home."]I did say "arbitrarily" when I referenced the Ulster game as I was trying to make a point about taking one for the team in any close game. I did suggest it would be the "same" in finals as close games at other stages of the championship. I did state that a player was black carded in the 75th minute of last years final The point was that the timing of the black cards in the finals in question did not generally support the premise that a higher incidence of black cards would be issued late in finals Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 17/08/2018 13:11:43 2134048 Link 1 |
Why would it not be the same for a very close game in, arbitrarily, the Ulster quarter finals? The common consensus here is that players will do anything to win, including taking a black card for the team. Only one player in those four finals was black carded in the closing stages. The times the black cards were given in the finals were: 2015 - 59' 2016 - 24' Replay - 21', 35', 41' 2017 - 75'"]Or in an All-Ireland final such as 2017?"]Not being smart but I don't know what point you're trying to make."]Could not understand why you would reference an Ulster Quarter- Final when there was an obvious example closer to home."]I did say "arbitrarily" when I referenced the Ulster game as I was trying to make a point about taking one for the team in any close game. I did suggest it would be the "same" in finals as close games at other stages of the championship. I did state that a player was black carded in the 75th minute of last years final The point was that the timing of the black cards in the finals in question did not generally support the premise that a higher incidence of black cards would be issued late in finals"]Fair enough Kurt neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 17/08/2018 15:53:57 2134088 Link 0 |
It was brought in for good reason but implementation went offtrack. And referees operate differently, Ashrules (Dublin) - Posts: 518 - 17/08/2018 16:14:01 2134091 Link 0 |
The black card has not worked. Simple as that. Wish the powers-that-be would just stop tinkering with the game and stop introducing rules without trial that are impossible to implement consistently. How is it that cynical or tactical fouling in hurling isn't an issue or being talked about non-stop?? I saw an incident recently in the Galway-Clare hurling replay where a Galway man had a stiff of a goal and was deliberately pulled back by a Clare player and the commentator said something like "he'll happily take a yellow for the team there" and there was no big fuss about it, everyone just got on with it. Football is too heavily influenced by nonsense-talking "pundits" and journalists. Is cynical or tactical fouling a problem in soccer?? I'm sure it can be but we don't see them introducing silly rules that are un-implementable. It's the same for both teams so let them at it I say. You have your one "foul" per game to take a yellow and youre gone after that as it has always been. TheLineKing (Westmeath) - Posts: 18 - 19/08/2018 13:29:57 2134384 Link 0 |
The black card has not worked. Simple as that. Wish the powers-that-be would just stop tinkering with the game and stop introducing rules without trial that are impossible to implement consistently. How is it that cynical or tactical fouling in hurling isn't an issue or being talked about non-stop?? I saw an incident recently in the Galway-Clare hurling replay where a Galway man had a stiff of a goal and was deliberately pulled back by a Clare player and the commentator said something like "he'll happily take a yellow for the team there" and there was no big fuss about it, everyone just got on with it. Football is too heavily influenced by nonsense-talking "pundits" and journalists. Is cynical or tactical fouling a problem in soccer?? I'm sure it can be but we don't see them introducing silly rules that are un-implementable. It's the same for both teams so let them at it I say. You have your one "foul" per game to take a yellow and youre gone after that as it has always been. DonaldDuck (Tipperary) - Posts: 544 - 20/08/2018 13:16:59 2134722 Link 0 |
Could you back up the last statement about going back to old style yellow and red not being good for the game?
Westfester (Limerick) - Posts: 939 - 23/08/2018 00:08:52 2135793 Link 0 |
I think overall the Black card is a good idea but the implementation has been very unreliable. Players getting black cards for an accidental or petty foul and others getting away with a yellow when it merits a black. But for a proper punishment i think a black card should warrant a 10 min sin bin without being replaced. being able to sub a player for a black card can have a positive effect on the punished team rather than than being actually punished. woops (Kerry) - Posts: 2073 - 23/08/2018 10:29:09 2135843 Link 0 |
I think overall the Black card is a good idea but the implementation has been very unreliable. Players getting black cards for an accidental or petty foul and others getting away with a yellow when it merits a black. But for a proper punishment i think a black card should warrant a 10 min sin bin without being replaced. being able to sub a player for a black card can have a positive effect on the punished team rather than than being actually punished."]Isn't the real problem, consistency, or lack of consistency by referees in applying the black card? The black card is a good idea in principle. thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1706 - 23/08/2018 10:44:43 2135850 Link 0 |
Could you back up the last statement about going back to old style yellow and red not being good for the game? DonaldDuck (Tipperary) - Posts: 544 - 31/08/2018 16:25:26 2137962 Link 0 |