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Replying To mick2007: "I'm Actually not surprised that you can't grasp the point I'm trying to make.. no doubt your one of the 1000s I'd dubs that go to 1 game of football a year stand on the hill and sing your wee heart out "cmon you boys in blue" cluxo, dermo, Berno, Cono and go home and put the joints away til the following year...... when I was playing the mixer was called the middle of the field area.. it's an area where Fento wouldn't survive with the likes of tohill and darragh.. they would eat him without salt..
Next you'll be trying to tell us that Connolly is the greatest forward that ever played the game..
Fenton reminds me of Wayne Rooney in his 1st few years playing with England he was one of the greatest Strikers ever played the game and that was coming from knowledgable lads as well like yourself within soccer circles.......over hyped" Rooney did alright for a lad that was overhyped.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7336 - 22/05/2020 09:20:03
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Replying To winatallcost: "Agree with alot of your points and based on what I've seen I'd still have those players ahead of Fenton. O'Se and McDermott more physical while Tohill and Buckley had a wider range of skills. Football around the middle is so loose now. I'm not denying Fenton is a good player just not the best over 40 plus years at midfield. Equally I would make the point James McCarthy may deserve a place on the team given his influence." Tohill is the best midfielder I've seen to play the game. He had the physicality and strength along with being an excellent footballer. While I have a lot of time for Niall Buckley, to say he had a wider range of skills than Fenton is very strange in my opinion. Fenton is a far better kicker of the ball as both a passer and scorer and gets involved in play much more often. He's also much more mobile.
Some of the pure ball-winners of the past would be lost in today's game. Being mobile is a huge part of being a midfielder now. Midfielders have to be a lot more than kickout catchers today.
WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2036 - 22/05/2020 10:35:15
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Replying To GreenandRed: "Rooney did alright for a lad that was overhyped." Record goalscorer for both Man Utd and England. He won every trophy at club level and you call him overhype?
Ollie2 (Louth) - Posts: 781 - 22/05/2020 11:15:46
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Replying To MesAmis: "The term you used was mixer, which is what old school English football men refer to the Penalty box as.
If I've ever heard of it in a GAA context it is usually referring to the in front of goal. But again not really a GAA term, more a soccer one.
I personally wouldn't pick Fenton in my all time midfield pairing but I also find your derision of him a little strange. He's clearly an excellent midfielder who would have done well against anyone from any era.
Your little rant against the poster being some sort of 'once a year, joint smoking Dub who also thinks he's a knowledgeable soccer man that used to love Wayne Rooney' is very funny and quite revealing as to what you really think." I'd even take Ciarian Whelan over Fenton who was a really excellent midfielder in a very average Dublin side..
mick2007 (Monaghan) - Posts: 449 - 22/05/2020 11:30:36
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Replying To Ollie2: "Record goalscorer for both Man Utd and England. He won every trophy at club level and you call him overhype?" yes I stand by what I said rooney was totally over hyped and over rated when compared to the rue greats of the game..the English media tried to make people believe that rooney was one of the best strikers ever to play the game.. did he ever even score a goal at a world cup or a euro championship.. at 31 man utd let him go and he went to play in the retirement home of the MLS in America.. at 31 he should have still been in his prime..
im sure a lot of people would agree with me on this one
mick2007 (Monaghan) - Posts: 449 - 22/05/2020 12:00:51
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Replying To mick2007: "I'd even take Ciarian Whelan over Fenton who was a really excellent midfielder in a very average Dublin side.." That's great.
Very few would take Whelan over Fenton to be fair. Not even Ciarán himself good and all as he was, not quite in the upper echelons of midfielders I've seen but close enough on his day.
Fenton is clearly an excellent midfielder, up there with the best we've seen in the last 20/30 years.
I probably wouldn't have him in my pairing but to dismiss him entirely is a little strange.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13705 - 22/05/2020 12:22:56
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Replying To Greengrass: "I too saw those players you mention . I saw Anthony Tohill at his best and yes he was a terrific footballer . I saw Jacko in every All Ireland final he ever played . I saw Darragh O Se in every All Ireland final he ever played . In my opinion Brian Fenton is the equal of if not better than all of them . Yes those men you mention were magnificent players . But so too is Brian Fenton . To characterise him as an athlete is disrespectful and wrong . He is so much more than that . He has mastered every skill in the game including high fielding . To say he wouldn't have been seen in the company of Darragh O Se and Anthony Tohill is conjecture on your part and not something I agree with . I know it's only my opinion but I would rate Brian Fenton and Jack O Shea as the two best midfielders I have ever seen . Tohill would be very close to them ." Some people will see you walk on water and say its cos you can't swim. Totally agree with you.
Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 22/05/2020 12:23:09
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Replying To mick2007: "I'm Actually not surprised that you can't grasp the point I'm trying to make.. no doubt your one of the 1000s I'd dubs that go to 1 game of football a year stand on the hill and sing your wee heart out "cmon you boys in blue" cluxo, dermo, Berno, Cono and go home and put the joints away til the following year...... when I was playing the mixer was called the middle of the field area.. it's an area where Fento wouldn't survive with the likes of tohill and darragh.. they would eat him without salt..
Next you'll be trying to tell us that Connolly is the greatest forward that ever played the game..
Fenton reminds me of Wayne Rooney in his 1st few years playing with England he was one of the greatest Strikers ever played the game and that was coming from knowledgable lads as well like yourself within soccer circles.......over hyped" no doubt your one of the 1000s I'd dubs that go to 1 game of football a year stand on the hill and sing your wee heart out "cmon you boys in blue" cluxo, dermo, Berno, Cono and go home and put the joints away til the following year..
And there it is.... The real motivation behind your post. Well done!
Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 22/05/2020 12:27:02
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Replying To mick2007: "yes I stand by what I said rooney was totally over hyped and over rated when compared to the rue greats of the game..the English media tried to make people believe that rooney was one of the best strikers ever to play the game.. did he ever even score a goal at a world cup or a euro championship.. at 31 man utd let him go and he went to play in the retirement home of the MLS in America.. at 31 he should have still been in his prime..
im sure a lot of people would agree with me on this one" You can stand by what you said. It does not mean you are right. Rooney scored at Euro 2004 and 2016 and the World Cup in 2014.
Ollie2 (Louth) - Posts: 781 - 22/05/2020 14:16:21
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Replying To mick2007: "yes I stand by what I said rooney was totally over hyped and over rated when compared to the rue greats of the game..the English media tried to make people believe that rooney was one of the best strikers ever to play the game.. did he ever even score a goal at a world cup or a euro championship.. at 31 man utd let him go and he went to play in the retirement home of the MLS in America.. at 31 he should have still been in his prime..
im sure a lot of people would agree with me on this one" He wasn't overhyped by anyone who knew anything about football. English redtops and some other media overhype any English player before theyeven get capped. They'll do that so they can tear them down at the first opportunity to sell papers to casual football 'fans' who love a bit of scandal. They're clickbait papers. Which knowledgeable football pundit ever said Rooney was one of the best strikers to play the game?
Is Messi a bad player because he never had a great Wotld Cup? Is Harry Kane great because he won a World Cup golden boot and nothing with a good Spurs team? Rooney could play anywhere in midfield or upfront. You don't play for Manchester United for as long as he did, win as much as he did, be top scorer for them and England unless your top class. He's 18 years playing football now, not so mobile any more, highly unlikely to happen but would love to see him back in Premier League with Derby.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7336 - 22/05/2020 14:16:50
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I'm a Liverpool fan.
Rooney has an incredible career.
He was one of the best 17 year old players in history.
He was a physical freak for his age and a technically excellent player.
He was excellent at the Euros in 2004 and was a bit overhyped briefly after scoring 4 goals in 4 games.
He probably was never a top 10 player in the world, which was you'd say meant he fell short of his early promise but he was still an excellent player for a very long time.
As for the early end to his career. Forwards have an earlier peak than other players. He also still had a 14 year career by the time he left United. He'd a lot of miles on the clock.
His last season at United he wasn't up to it but that shouldn't take a meat from what was a long career at the top.
He was a top player.
As for the Brian Fenton analysis. I actually just think it's pure rubbish. He's won player of the year once already and was also nominated another time. He's been a key member of a hugely successful team. He's just also a very good footballer and has a really good knack of getting himself into the right position to be chipping in on the scoresheet himself.
When he's playing well Dublin are playing well, one of his few off days came in the first game against Kerry last year and you could see how much that affected Dublin's flow.
Is he the same sort of player as Jacko or Tohill or O'Shea. No he's very different. There are different ways of playing a position though and be effective, from what you say it sounds like you're under appreciating him because you're not appreciating his style of play.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4208 - 22/05/2020 17:30:59
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Replying To mick2007: "No matter what sport it's very hard to compare players from different eras.. styles/tactics have changed over the years and not all for the better either.. when you hear of teams bringing in basketball coaches it speaks volumes of the current game and then don't get me started on the blanket defences.. the likes of Greg blaney for down was a magician on the field, would he shine in the current era - prob not because it's all about what your GPS system reads that determines if you get a starting Berth or not.. moral of the story fitness over skill trumps nowadays..
Its just a personal opinion of mine that Fenton couldn't boss a game the way tohill and darragh could in that era especially in a team that isn't vastly superior to every other team as is the case with Dublin now..
If a ball was put out into the mixer between Fenton and either tohill or darragh I know who I'd be putting my money on..or even jack Barry for that matter either!!" There is always a few posters who remind of the annoying auld lad in the pub who thinks football is gone to the dogs because of fitness and statistics. There is far more skill in football now than there was years ago, just because fitness is important doesn't mean some genius has no chance. Anyone with a half decent level of fitness who has all the ability in the world can make it.
As for Fenton, a class act who could have made it in any era. I have seen him dominate in the air as well. Dublin and Cluxton are brilliant at quick, efficient kickouts that secure possession so Fenton doesn't need to be involved in 50/50s that often. And as for you saying Whelan might be ahead of him. That is beyond laughable. Whelan was a very good player but in the biggest games he was often average outside of Leinster. He wouldn't lace the boots of Fenton.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7885 - 22/05/2020 17:38:05
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Replying To Pope_Benedict: "It's an embarrassment. How could Kerry provide 66% of the best defenders of the last 40 years, and still feel the need to add phrases like 'puke football' to the sporting lexicon of the country? Tyrone taught three of them all about defending in 2003 & 2005, and then added insult to injury by handing out another lesson in 2008. No Tyrone defenders? 4 Kerry defenders? Someone having a laugh there? Was this a 'public vote' conducted on 'Radio Kerry'?" You DO have a problem with Kerry. Most likely reason Kerry dominate is because they won 13 All-Irelands over the period - easy enough to grasp.
And, even during the short 2003/2008 period - which you seem to think was dominated by Tyrone - no one won more All-Irelands than Kerry!!
Aibrean (Kerry) - Posts: 263 - 22/05/2020 17:51:22
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Replying To mick2007: "I'm Actually not surprised that you can't grasp the point I'm trying to make.. no doubt your one of the 1000s I'd dubs that go to 1 game of football a year stand on the hill and sing your wee heart out "cmon you boys in blue" cluxo, dermo, Berno, Cono and go home and put the joints away til the following year...... when I was playing the mixer was called the middle of the field area.. it's an area where Fento wouldn't survive with the likes of tohill and darragh.. they would eat him without salt..
Next you'll be trying to tell us that Connolly is the greatest forward that ever played the game..
Fenton reminds me of Wayne Rooney in his 1st few years playing with England he was one of the greatest Strikers ever played the game and that was coming from knowledgable lads as well like yourself within soccer circles.......over hyped" Certainly weakens your argument when you jump to conclusions about my one game a year on the hill status. Sure I go to the hill and cheer on the dubs, but I attend club and county games all over especially in the west where I live. My first All Ireland to attend was Down's win in 68 v Kerry where funny enough a 20 year old mid-fielder, Colm McAlarney playing a roving intelligent game (leaving Kerry mid-field including Mick O'Connell scratching their heads in the "mixer"). McAlarney's roving style earned him the moniker "Arkle" and he dominated many a mid-field with his athletic and footballing prowess through his career just as Fento is now.
sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 674 - 22/05/2020 18:39:02
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From 2014, Peter Canavan picks the best players he has played with or against, excluding Tyrone players.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7336 - 23/05/2020 11:57:56
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Replying To GreenandRed: " linkFrom 2014, Peter Canavan picks the best players he has played with or against, excluding Tyrone players."
winatallcost (Meath) - Posts: 507 - 24/05/2020 10:53:00
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Replying To winatallcost: " Replying To GreenandRed: " linkFrom 2014, Peter Canavan picks the best players he has played with or against, excluding Tyrone players." Surprised he didn't have Martin O'Connell or Graham Geraghty on the team. O'Connell may be still public enemy no. 1 up there but Geraghty turned on one of the best individual displays ever seen in Croke Park in semi-final against Tyrone when they were clear favourites for All-Ireland in 1996."
sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 674 - 24/05/2020 15:28:35
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Replying To GreenandRed: " linkFrom 2014, Peter Canavan picks the best players he has played with or against, excluding Tyrone players."
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 24/05/2020 17:36:06
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: " Replying To GreenandRed: " linkFrom 2014, Peter Canavan picks the best players he has played with or against, excluding Tyrone players." Interesting video from 2015, cluxtin not even Peters 3rd choice goalie says a lot. It proves for 14 of his 19 year career the cluck was only an average goalie, good kicker but not a great goalie."
It was 2014. A lot happened since then.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7336 - 24/05/2020 19:01:01
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Replying To GreenandRed: " Replying To KingdomBoy1: "[quote=GreenandRed: " linkFrom 2014, Peter Canavan picks the best players he has played with or against, excluding Tyrone players." Interesting video from 2015, cluxtin not even Peters 3rd choice goalie says a lot. It proves for 14 of his 19 year career the cluck was only an average goalie, good kicker but not a great goalie."
It was 2014. A lot happened since then."]Not sure St Stephen and Peter the greats paths crossed in the championship anyway,GreenandRed and given hes giving a list of the players he has played with or against that is kind of crucial. :D
St. Stephen got the nod in 2002 but we didn't play Tyrone in the Championship that year, then next time we got out of Leinster was 2005, we played Tyrone that year and Peter was down to play but pulled out at the last minute if my memory is right, not that it made much of a difference to the score.
So as far as i can recollect they never played against each other on the biggest stage in the Championship. St Stephen became no 1 in 02 and Peter called in a day 2005 anf their paths never crossed. Hard to believe that will soon be two generations ago.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 24/05/2020 19:41:21
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