National Forum

Playing "Keep Ball"...

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "I like the AFL right enough but don't like the way the mark makes it stop start. Is every catch a mark by the way? Not sure on that rule."
Sorry GreenandRed, I'm out of here - hope all is good in lovely Mayo!

baire (Galway) - Posts: 766 - 20/09/2019 18:59:51    2237897

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Replying To baire:  "I didn't. You misread my post intentionally. You said I was taking a pop at him which is ridiculous. I'd say he has better things to do these days than to be reading the nonsense on here. I'll say no more about it, you can take your flaking elsewhere! I'm out of here!
Nár laga Dia Ciarán Mac Giolla Chainnigh agus Niamh Nic Giolla Chainnigh! Up the wesht, a mhac!"
Sure bud. Also bringing up Aussie Rules as if it's a better spectacle? Nope it isn't. Our game is miles ahead entertainment and flow wise.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 6518 - 20/09/2019 19:27:55    2237904

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There are diverse opinions and nothing wrong with that. Some will influence you thought, some not. My next door neighbour who passed away in his 90's and supported until the end said when the hand pass came in ( along time ago) this is not good for the game. Asking him to elaborate he went on to say play will be come cluttered, the tackle will disappear because it will always be too late and pulling and dragging will be the means to defend. A shoulder can be executed during the time it takes to fist the ball and the player disposed. He said they could fist a No. 5 football with a lace 20yds and open up play.
This same individual would carry us 20 miles on his bike one on the carrier and one on the bar to see a game. When he got his first morris minor he would load 10 kids in to it to go play juvenile. After he retired from the council he used his little bit of savings he had to buy a ride on mower to cut the grass in our new field. He never saw less that 4 games every weekend of his life. Travelled the length of the country to inter county games. Once the t.v. camera caught a glimpse of him in Salthill in the middle of winter for a league game between Galway and Kerry. Never seen him play but was told he was a gifted footballer.
The reason I would mention him is his opinion on the game was worth more that any pundit or any poster. He did more in one month of his life for the game than the rest of us in our life time. These type of people are the heroes of the GAA and humble you when they give an evaluation.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 633 - 20/09/2019 19:44:58    2237905

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Replying To baire:  "I said:
"The two goals scored in both finals this year, (by two great players) ..."
by two great players, by two great players, by two great players - specsavers?
Where did I say that they were 'only the product of S&C training'?
I said that the following skills are basically not practised anymore due to the emphasis on holding possession at all costs:
high fielding, long range kicking, long range scoring and kick passing. You may be watching a different game to me, maybe I'm imagining all those hand passes, crowded defences, gradual build up towards goal to set up a close range point.
I have no interest in talking about individual teams or players tbh, it's the new way of playing 'gaelic football' and we all have a fair idea how it evolved and why. I'm off now."
Yes you said they were great players but that's not all you said.

I don't see the point in your speed merchants point.

The context of most of the rest of your posts are that skills are lost in the game.

Then you describe players as speed merchants, that had a negative implication to me, given everything else you've been saying.

What was your point there?

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2697 - 20/09/2019 20:24:44    2237918

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Replying To Canuck:  "
Replying To ConnollyDub:  "As good as Connolly's pass was he is along way off of the skills of those players

oh dear...

did you really just say that ??

now i know you haven't a clue"
I never question the knowledge of any poster one here or reference anyone as clueless. You degrade the skill of your past team players. Tony Hanahoe, Bobby Doyle, Anto O'toole (R.I.P.) Jimmy Keaveney. Brian Mullins, Kevin Moran etc. etc. You shockenly said these players could not make a pass with their foot. I wonder how the other Dublin posters feel about that. Not from Dublin but have respect for those who wore the shirt with pride and lots of skill. They did not receive their successes in a lucky bag as one person said."
Haha come off it man seriously where did I once degrade the skill of former Dublin players.. Show me?
All I'm saying is its ridiculous to say that Connolly, as you put it, is: "a long way off the skills of those players".

Now I'm sorry and I don't mean to offend but if you honestly think that you haven't a clue..

ConnollyDub (Dublin) - Posts: 1802 - 20/09/2019 21:21:29    2237934

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Replying To Canuck:  "There are diverse opinions and nothing wrong with that. Some will influence you thought, some not. My next door neighbour who passed away in his 90's and supported until the end said when the hand pass came in ( along time ago) this is not good for the game. Asking him to elaborate he went on to say play will be come cluttered, the tackle will disappear because it will always be too late and pulling and dragging will be the means to defend. A shoulder can be executed during the time it takes to fist the ball and the player disposed. He said they could fist a No. 5 football with a lace 20yds and open up play.
This same individual would carry us 20 miles on his bike one on the carrier and one on the bar to see a game. When he got his first morris minor he would load 10 kids in to it to go play juvenile. After he retired from the council he used his little bit of savings he had to buy a ride on mower to cut the grass in our new field. He never saw less that 4 games every weekend of his life. Travelled the length of the country to inter county games. Once the t.v. camera caught a glimpse of him in Salthill in the middle of winter for a league game between Galway and Kerry. Never seen him play but was told he was a gifted footballer.
The reason I would mention him is his opinion on the game was worth more that any pundit or any poster. He did more in one month of his life for the game than the rest of us in our life time. These type of people are the heroes of the GAA and humble you when they give an evaluation."
Fair enough, look the world would be a less interesting place if we all agreed.

I'll be honest I'm glad I'm me though and I enjoy the games as they are right now.

I honestly hope that the rules don't change either. I want to see where the evolution of the game takes us to.

I just don't see how skills of the game are being lost either.

High fielding, there's so many examples of Moran or Fenton taking great catches.

Howard in the first final taking the ball under pressure from a number of players after a Cluxton long accurate kick. The transition was so quick then, he wasn't thinking oh great I caught the ball. He was delivering it on quickly. I just thought that whole passage of play was fantastic.

I just honestly don't think moments of that pace and accuracy existed in the past.

I've watched plenty of All Ireland gold, i just don't understand how anyone can think it's even the same level of play as today's games.

I'm sure it was exciting at the time, but the skills are not good. You'd listen to some on here and think that every 50 yard effort was flying straight over the black spot. It just wasn't.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2697 - 20/09/2019 21:25:55    2237936

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Fair enough, look the world would be a less interesting place if we all agreed.

I'll be honest I'm glad I'm me though and I enjoy the games as they are right now.

I honestly hope that the rules don't change either. I want to see where the evolution of the game takes us to.

I just don't see how skills of the game are being lost either.

High fielding, there's so many examples of Moran or Fenton taking great catches.

Howard in the first final taking the ball under pressure from a number of players after a Cluxton long accurate kick. The transition was so quick then, he wasn't thinking oh great I caught the ball. He was delivering it on quickly. I just thought that whole passage of play was fantastic.

I just honestly don't think moments of that pace and accuracy existed in the past.

I've watched plenty of All Ireland gold, i just don't understand how anyone can think it's even the same level of play as today's games.

I'm sure it was exciting at the time, but the skills are not good. You'd listen to some on here and think that every 50 yard effort was flying straight over the black spot. It just wasn't."
I have no problem with the thought that the present day player are fitter and stronger than the past. However I can not agree they are more skillful footballers. I could say you listen to some on here and you think ever hand passing move was a stoke of genius in the build up. For all their body building and strengthen coaching the players today don't come close in executing a tackle consistently like the past. I have watched the game since the 60's and some where in between the skills of the past and athleticism of today lies a great game. I have no doubt that rule changes though well intended damaged the game. You will probably say the same in 20 years time.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 633 - 20/09/2019 22:36:18    2237960

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Replying To ConnollyDub:  "
Replying To Canuck:  "[quote=ConnollyDub:  "As good as Connolly's pass was he is along way off of the skills of those players

oh dear...

did you really just say that ??

now i know you haven't a clue"
I never question the knowledge of any poster one here or reference anyone as clueless. You degrade the skill of your past team players. Tony Hanahoe, Bobby Doyle, Anto O'toole (R.I.P.) Jimmy Keaveney. Brian Mullins, Kevin Moran etc. etc. You shockenly said these players could not make a pass with their foot. I wonder how the other Dublin posters feel about that. Not from Dublin but have respect for those who wore the shirt with pride and lots of skill. They did not receive their successes in a lucky bag as one person said."
Haha come off it man seriously where did I once degrade the skill of former Dublin players.. Show me?
All I'm saying is its ridiculous to say that Connolly, as you put it, is: "a long way off the skills of those players".

Now I'm sorry and I don't mean to offend but if you honestly think that you haven't a clue.."]There you go again without knowing any thing about me. Never claimed to be "the" expert. Played the game in two counties and humble enough to say never good enough. However I refuse to insult anyone on here about their knowledge of the game.
"the kicking was just hit just a big hoof up to the forwards and hope for the best."
Is that what you thought of those great players from the past. If you like I will go back further to the team of the Foleys and Kevin Heffernan who I watch play. I would expect any true Dub to be proud of the FOOTball skills of these great players. I don't know but just maybe you never seen them play. Sad for your loss if that is the case.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 633 - 20/09/2019 22:48:32    2237964

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Replying To baire:  "Sorry GreenandRed, I'm out of here - hope all is good in lovely Mayo!"
Cheers Baire. Sure I'm in Meath! I think I'll join you on the way out though.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 5498 - 20/09/2019 23:24:49    2237969

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Replying To Canuck:  "I have no problem with the thought that the present day player are fitter and stronger than the past. However I can not agree they are more skillful footballers. I could say you listen to some on here and you think ever hand passing move was a stoke of genius in the build up. For all their body building and strengthen coaching the players today don't come close in executing a tackle consistently like the past. I have watched the game since the 60's and some where in between the skills of the past and athleticism of today lies a great game. I have no doubt that rule changes though well intended damaged the game. You will probably say the same in 20 years time."
You have to remember that the pace of the game was much slower in the 60s and much more contact was allowed. Kerry would not have gotten that penalty off Cooper in the 60s. So tackling in general was easier i.e. it was easier to turn the ball over over. Try catching Jack McCaffrey to get a tackle in. The pace is much quicker now. From a skill perspective almost every player can kick off both feet and flick a ball up to hands on the run. When Mikey Sheehy did this in the 70s it was like he had performed a miracle. Now every player can do it. It's a different level these days.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4023 - 21/09/2019 00:45:20    2237977

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Replying To Joxer:  "You have to remember that the pace of the game was much slower in the 60s and much more contact was allowed. Kerry would not have gotten that penalty off Cooper in the 60s. So tackling in general was easier i.e. it was easier to turn the ball over over. Try catching Jack McCaffrey to get a tackle in. The pace is much quicker now. From a skill perspective almost every player can kick off both feet and flick a ball up to hands on the run. When Mikey Sheehy did this in the 70s it was like he had performed a miracle. Now every player can do it. It's a different level these days."
Joxer we will have to agree to disagree. The Kerry player would not get the penalty because his head would be stuck in the ground with a good shoulder and not dragged down, especially in the square. Yes the speed is quicker but is not true for both sides. Jack McCaffrey is not Bolt that no one from Kerry could catch up to him to tackle. The reality is one they are not interested in tackling just waiting for the play to break down and two they don't know how to tackle. When I was in primary school every kid in the mucky play ground could flick the ball into their hand on the run. A wet heavy ball with a lace. The opportunity to do that in a game would not present itself that often because you were going to get tacked the moment you got near the ball. There was a lot more to Mike Sheehy game than flicking the ball into his hand. Like finding John Egan across the field in the other corner with an accurate FOOT pass.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 633 - 21/09/2019 14:05:53    2238058

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Replying To Canuck:  "Joxer we will have to agree to disagree. The Kerry player would not get the penalty because his head would be stuck in the ground with a good shoulder and not dragged down, especially in the square. Yes the speed is quicker but is not true for both sides. Jack McCaffrey is not Bolt that no one from Kerry could catch up to him to tackle. The reality is one they are not interested in tackling just waiting for the play to break down and two they don't know how to tackle. When I was in primary school every kid in the mucky play ground could flick the ball into their hand on the run. A wet heavy ball with a lace. The opportunity to do that in a game would not present itself that often because you were going to get tacked the moment you got near the ball. There was a lot more to Mike Sheehy game than flicking the ball into his hand. Like finding John Egan across the field in the other corner with an accurate FOOT pass."
Problem is there is no real tackle in gaelic football when someone in posession moving at speed. Sick of hearing that a certain team is dodgy when teams run at them at speed, this is all teams as there is no real defined tackle and so it is down to hassleing if you can get near and different referee interpretation.

NewyorkNewyork (Kildare) - Posts: 4 - 21/09/2019 20:32:16    2238127

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Replying To NewyorkNewyork:  "Problem is there is no real tackle in gaelic football when someone in posession moving at speed. Sick of hearing that a certain team is dodgy when teams run at them at speed, this is all teams as there is no real defined tackle and so it is down to hassleing if you can get near and different referee interpretation."
Glad to see you can read what is going on in the game. No reference to Dublin or Kerry or any other team. The topic is "keep ball" in gaelic football. Most people on here are civil about the subject and rightly express an opinion. For us who do not like how the game as now played, doesn't mean we don't respect the players and game. I feel strongly that some of the rule changes over the last decade or two has led to less football, blanket defence, backwards play and cynic fouling (your point about no tackle). Some what amused by our friends who do like the game as is now and don't want any change while ignoring that rule change influenced the game style we are seeing. However I respect they are passionate about the game.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 633 - 23/09/2019 16:31:53    2238587

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Replying To Canuck:  "Glad to see you can read what is going on in the game. No reference to Dublin or Kerry or any other team. The topic is "keep ball" in gaelic football. Most people on here are civil about the subject and rightly express an opinion. For us who do not like how the game as now played, doesn't mean we don't respect the players and game. I feel strongly that some of the rule changes over the last decade or two has led to less football, blanket defence, backwards play and cynic fouling (your point about no tackle). Some what amused by our friends who do like the game as is now and don't want any change while ignoring that rule change influenced the game style we are seeing. However I respect they are passionate about the game."
summed up excellently...from the person who kicked off the debate:)

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 340 - 25/09/2019 11:01:49    2239006

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Replying To Fairplayalways:  "summed up excellently...from the person who kicked off the debate:)"
Opinion will always be divided on these things. I think the blights, if you can call them that, on the game these days are, the blanket defense, endless hand passing which is a reaction to that, simulation - lads going down too easily or, worse still, lads clamping the tackler and taking him down. Sledging is never nice to see but has always been there and is impossible to police anyway. There isn't a whole lot wrong with the sport but mass defending is still the biggest problem as I see it. Fix that and other problem areas will resolve themselves.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4023 - 25/09/2019 12:46:08    2239046

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Replying To Joxer:  "Opinion will always be divided on these things. I think the blights, if you can call them that, on the game these days are, the blanket defense, endless hand passing which is a reaction to that, simulation - lads going down too easily or, worse still, lads clamping the tackler and taking him down. Sledging is never nice to see but has always been there and is impossible to police anyway. There isn't a whole lot wrong with the sport but mass defending is still the biggest problem as I see it. Fix that and other problem areas will resolve themselves."
so called sledging can be addressed, by team management...dealing with adults here..some woeful stuff has been said to players down the years, we wont even go there, there is an onus on management to either send their team out to win fairly or unfairly...I coach youngsters myself and actively stamp that out the minute I get wind of it..harder for adults I know to police but if you start them young enough as they say...

Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 340 - 25/09/2019 13:24:23    2239066

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Replying To Canuck:  "Joxer we will have to agree to disagree. The Kerry player would not get the penalty because his head would be stuck in the ground with a good shoulder and not dragged down, especially in the square. Yes the speed is quicker but is not true for both sides. Jack McCaffrey is not Bolt that no one from Kerry could catch up to him to tackle. The reality is one they are not interested in tackling just waiting for the play to break down and two they don't know how to tackle. When I was in primary school every kid in the mucky play ground could flick the ball into their hand on the run. A wet heavy ball with a lace. The opportunity to do that in a game would not present itself that often because you were going to get tacked the moment you got near the ball. There was a lot more to Mike Sheehy game than flicking the ball into his hand. Like finding John Egan across the field in the other corner with an accurate FOOT pass."
As the chant from another discipline might go "There was only one Mikey Sheehy " his display in the 1979 final has never been surpassed perfection or as near to it as is possible

37sowhat (Sligo) - Posts: 711 - 25/09/2019 13:24:31    2239067

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Replying To Fairplayalways:  "so called sledging can be addressed, by team management...dealing with adults here..some woeful stuff has been said to players down the years, we wont even go there, there is an onus on management to either send their team out to win fairly or unfairly...I coach youngsters myself and actively stamp that out the minute I get wind of it..harder for adults I know to police but if you start them young enough as they say..."
Completely agree on sledging. Start them young and teach them respect. The best talking is done with the ball but I've seen kids as young as 12 trying to intimidate opponents. Coaches need to nip it in the bud big time.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4023 - 25/09/2019 13:53:47    2239081

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