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Kilkenny and Tipp Give Us A Traditional All Ireland Hurling Final

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Replying To Killarney.87:  "A week on and nobody wants to discuss the match, amazing!!

I finally got a chance to watch it back and I can see why Donnelly got so much plaudits from the media. He had a fine game, I think he scored 0-3 points from play and worked his ass off for the team.

I thought Seamus Kennedy had a stormer of a game and better than I thought initially. I can see why so many people thought Ronan Maher was man of the match, he was immense. The wrists of Noel McGrath and Bubbles are insane, you could only dream about doing some of the things they do.

14 men aside, Kilkenny were very poor and one dimensional in the second half. Yes they fought to the bitter end. I think Cody applauding and stressing his players efforts is nearly a subconscious way of telling himself that he let them down tactically. If I was a Kilkenny fan i'd be beyond frustration with how predictable the ball sent in was. It either went straight to Barrett or was mopped up by Tipp backs in close vicinity to Fennelly.

James Owens is without a doubt the best referee at the minute. In real time watching from the stand I thought he gave Kilkenny a load of soft frees but watching back it was very hard to argue against most of them. In an era of average referees we are very lucky to have him."
I've said it on the Cody thread, I don't think he instructed the team to start lobbing brainless balls in, I think he gives the players autonomy to play the game as they see it but they reverted to type and started going long looking for goals despite the odds being heavily in Tipp's favour in the FB line. He doesn't have a Shefflin on the field to make the right decisions and steer the team in the right direction when they're in trouble.

Our only hope (apart from not conceding two stupid goals at the start at the second half), was to work the ball up to the likes of Donnelly and keep tipping away at the points. Tipp were dropping back (with the expressed intention of not conceding goals) and our half backs had a lot of time on the ball to pick out passes, but too often it went in long, high and hopeless. And of course Tipp were able to come out with it, pick out Callinan or Dwyer or Forde and it would be a point going over at the other end. I think if we played smarter, we could have been within 6 points with 10 minutes to go and THEN try go for goal. No point going for goals with 30 minutes to go when you're down to 14 men, all you can do is try make sure you're still in touching distance in the home stretch, then try roll the dice.

I recall some particularly awful use of the ball by Fogarty and Buckley in particular. But that sums up our lack of gameplan. Tipp had Noel McGrath picking out passes for them, we had Conor Fogarty and Cillian Buckley who, for all their qualities, precision passing isn't one of them.

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1082 - 25/08/2019 22:49:02    2229258

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Replying To BliainanÁir:  "Strawmen argument.

What I'm saying is the notion that Tipp are going doing soft is well supported. It seems to be coached."
That's an outrageous and baseless statement to make. I watched back the Dunphy sending off and fair enough Maher made a meal of it, striking is a red card offence though.

To say the Tipp players are being coached to dive is slanderous stuff.

All I know is when John Mcgrath was sent off against Wexford there was no complaining from Tipp and we came back and won.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2508 - 25/08/2019 23:39:34    2229269

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Any word on the appeal lads?

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 754 - 26/08/2019 08:09:24    2229284

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Replying To Killarney.87:  "That's an outrageous and baseless statement to make. I watched back the Dunphy sending off and fair enough Maher made a meal of it, striking is a red card offence though.

To say the Tipp players are being coached to dive is slanderous stuff.

All I know is when John Mcgrath was sent off against Wexford there was no complaining from Tipp and we came back and won."
Slander me backside.

It's obvious they're exaggerating anything they feel is an illegal tackle.

Goes against the spirit of the game.

BliainanÁir (Laois) - Posts: 598 - 26/08/2019 09:47:21    2229301

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Replying To Killarney.87:  "That's an outrageous and baseless statement to make. I watched back the Dunphy sending off and fair enough Maher made a meal of it, striking is a red card offence though.

To say the Tipp players are being coached to dive is slanderous stuff.

All I know is when John Mcgrath was sent off against Wexford there was no complaining from Tipp and we came back and won."
How could there be complaint when John McGrath was sent off?

The difference between that and Paidi Maher was the Wexford player got up, no theatrics. I applauded Tipp in 2016, 2010, 1991 etc as they played the game skillfully and in a proper spirit.

Not this year. Didn't like Paidi Maher's antics and then Barrett's confirmed for me that they're being told by someone in the coaching staff to fall like 9 pins.

BliainanÁir (Laois) - Posts: 598 - 26/08/2019 10:01:17    2229307

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Replying To BliainanÁir:  "Slander me backside.

It's obvious they're exaggerating anything they feel is an illegal tackle.

Goes against the spirit of the game."
I phoned a Tipp friend last night to congratulate him on their Under 20 win. We spoke about the reaction to the senior final. He doesn't do social media so I gave him a brief summary to the effect that the overwhelming majority of the Kilkenny lads are dead sound with no begrudgery, lots of complimentary posts from the likes of Galway, Limerick, Waterford and Wexford but some very nasty stuff from a guy from Laois, in particular, with talk of Tipp's win leaving "a sour taste". His reaction? "If Laois people are getting a sour taste then our victory tastes all the sweeter". Maybe it's time to stop flogging a dead horse and move on.

midlands (Westmeath) - Posts: 89 - 26/08/2019 10:08:38    2229311

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Replying To midlands:  "I phoned a Tipp friend last night to congratulate him on their Under 20 win. We spoke about the reaction to the senior final. He doesn't do social media so I gave him a brief summary to the effect that the overwhelming majority of the Kilkenny lads are dead sound with no begrudgery, lots of complimentary posts from the likes of Galway, Limerick, Waterford and Wexford but some very nasty stuff from a guy from Laois, in particular, with talk of Tipp's win leaving "a sour taste". His reaction? "If Laois people are getting a sour taste then our victory tastes all the sweeter". Maybe it's time to stop flogging a dead horse and move on."
I've a right to reply. I'm hardly going to leave the last word with you and your phonecall to your Tipp mate. Always the last resort when someone starts the 'I say the argument is over' routine. By the way for a Westmeath man you a lot about Tipp..even how many months an U20 player is overage.

Nasty stuff?? Does the truth hurt? Is everything meant to be sunshine and rainbows and you can't express an opinion? Tipp players are making a meal out of any situation where a player can be sent off.

Nasty stuff. Nasty stuff would be on a whole different level, talking about someone's life outside sport etc. Bar saying Paidi Maher and Barrett tend to dive, and it seems like policy, I said nothing 'nasty'. If you can't stand the heat in the kitchen, get out.

And you mentioned this to your friend from Tipp on a phonecall!

Defaulter1831 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 40 - 26/08/2019 10:27:22    2229323

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Replying To Defaulter1831:  "I've a right to reply. I'm hardly going to leave the last word with you and your phonecall to your Tipp mate. Always the last resort when someone starts the 'I say the argument is over' routine. By the way for a Westmeath man you a lot about Tipp..even how many months an U20 player is overage.

Nasty stuff?? Does the truth hurt? Is everything meant to be sunshine and rainbows and you can't express an opinion? Tipp players are making a meal out of any situation where a player can be sent off.

Nasty stuff. Nasty stuff would be on a whole different level, talking about someone's life outside sport etc. Bar saying Paidi Maher and Barrett tend to dive, and it seems like policy, I said nothing 'nasty'. If you can't stand the heat in the kitchen, get out.

And you mentioned this to your friend from Tipp on a phonecall!"
If you check back you'll see it wasn't me that knew by how many months a Tipp guy was overage. I don't know guys' actual birthdays but my old match programmes tell me when they played minor.

Of course you and everyone else has a right to reply and I never said "the argument is over". It just doesn't seem to be going anywhere except round and round and nobody is likely to change their views at this stage.

midlands (Westmeath) - Posts: 89 - 26/08/2019 10:43:17    2229331

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Replying To BliainanÁir:  "How could there be complaint when John McGrath was sent off?

The difference between that and Paidi Maher was the Wexford player got up, no theatrics. I applauded Tipp in 2016, 2010, 1991 etc as they played the game skillfully and in a proper spirit.

Not this year. Didn't like Paidi Maher's antics and then Barrett's confirmed for me that they're being told by someone in the coaching staff to fall like 9 pins."
That is seriously slanderous stuff, to suggest hurling men like O Shea and Sheedy are encouraging 'diving' is really stretching the lines of reality, I have had the pleasure of meeting both individuals on numerous occasions and I really can't see how your claim has any credibility , to suggest there is 'systemic' cheating in that Tipp team is just wrong.....Tipp outhurled KK on the day, simp,y accept it.....walking out of the Pairc in May after they beat Cork I said to my cousin that it would take a serious team to stop the Tipp forwards and so it proved....

I felt their backline was their Achilles heel as Cork also ran up a serious score line that day and Limerick possibly exposed them in the 2nd half in Limerick but on all Ireland day they withstood everything that was thrown at them, with Maher's catch in the build up to the first goal giving Tipp a massive lift when they were struggling slightly to find their feet.....

KK have had a glorious 20 yrs , it was never going to last forever......Tipp had their fallow period from 1971 to 1987 ( I think they even went 10/11 yrs in that time without a win in Munster....remember the scenes in 82/83 when they actually won one on the Sunday Game highlights...think Seamus Power played during that whole period maybe won 1/2 championship games)......Cork are now enduring a similar famine and by God its painful, my eldest is 11 and never seen cork hurlers lift an all Ireland at any grade from minor up so you enjoy the good times when they are there

Reality is the best team over the duration won the All Ireland, Limerick won a great NHL title while Wexford winning in Leinster was fantastic, a great year overall maybe not the same titanic tussles in Munster this year but we still had some great games and hurling to enjoy.....roll on 2020 and a Christy Ring for Down with a return to winning ways for the Rebels! ( I can live in hope)

PaudieSull1 (Down) - Posts: 702 - 26/08/2019 10:50:08    2229335

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Replying To midlands:  "If you check back you'll see it wasn't me that knew by how many months a Tipp guy was overage. I don't know guys' actual birthdays but my old match programmes tell me when they played minor.

Of course you and everyone else has a right to reply and I never said "the argument is over". It just doesn't seem to be going anywhere except round and round and nobody is likely to change their views at this stage."
Fair enough about the player's age, apologies I looked back through the thread. It's just you're painting all Kilkenny posters as happy enough. I'm not and I never begrudged any Tipp team an all ireland.

I agree with that Laois poster's point of view. As I said in a previous post this all ireland was not like 2016 or 2010. Tipp would have won anyway by 7 or so points i feel. But I feel the point about Tipp players going down quickly is quite true. Over and out on the argument here,you're right it is time to move on.

Defaulter1831 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 40 - 26/08/2019 10:53:17    2229339

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Replying To midlands:  "I phoned a Tipp friend last night to congratulate him on their Under 20 win. We spoke about the reaction to the senior final. He doesn't do social media so I gave him a brief summary to the effect that the overwhelming majority of the Kilkenny lads are dead sound with no begrudgery, lots of complimentary posts from the likes of Galway, Limerick, Waterford and Wexford but some very nasty stuff from a guy from Laois, in particular, with talk of Tipp's win leaving "a sour taste". His reaction? "If Laois people are getting a sour taste then our victory tastes all the sweeter". Maybe it's time to stop flogging a dead horse and move on."
The overwhelming majority of Kilkenny lads on social media were dead sound?? If this friend spoke to some Kilkenny people in the real world he might learn their true feelings. Ye are obviously great pals. You must have done something very special for him to congratulate him after the senior win.

I don't get how expressing an opinion that Tipp are coached to go down softly at senior hurling is nasty. I'm just stating my mind.

BliainanÁir (Laois) - Posts: 598 - 26/08/2019 11:19:41    2229351

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Replying To BliainanÁir:  "The overwhelming majority of Kilkenny lads on social media were dead sound?? If this friend spoke to some Kilkenny people in the real world he might learn their true feelings. Ye are obviously great pals. You must have done something very special for him to congratulate him after the senior win.

I don't get how expressing an opinion that Tipp are coached to go down softly at senior hurling is nasty. I'm just stating my mind."
Are you not saying that O'Shea and Sheedy are encouraging systematic cheating by the Tipp players?

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2508 - 26/08/2019 12:12:07    2229368

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Replying To BliainanÁir:  "How could there be complaint when John McGrath was sent off?

The difference between that and Paidi Maher was the Wexford player got up, no theatrics. I applauded Tipp in 2016, 2010, 1991 etc as they played the game skillfully and in a proper spirit.

Not this year. Didn't like Paidi Maher's antics and then Barrett's confirmed for me that they're being told by someone in the coaching staff to fall like 9 pins."
Thats my point, we are the only ones not whining about one of our players being sent off.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2508 - 26/08/2019 12:17:47    2229371

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Replying To Killarney.87:  "Thats my point, we are the only ones not whining about one of our players being sent off."
John McGrath's was a clear red. Hogan's wasn't. Dunphy's for Laois was a red, by the law, but Paidi Maher's antics were pathetic. He was jabbing the chap into the back with the hurl,i was opposite the incident, got a tiny flick back and rolled around. No respect for him.

BliainanÁir (Laois) - Posts: 598 - 26/08/2019 13:32:13    2229400

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Replying To PaudieSull1:  "That is seriously slanderous stuff, to suggest hurling men like O Shea and Sheedy are encouraging 'diving' is really stretching the lines of reality, I have had the pleasure of meeting both individuals on numerous occasions and I really can't see how your claim has any credibility , to suggest there is 'systemic' cheating in that Tipp team is just wrong.....Tipp outhurled KK on the day, simp,y accept it.....walking out of the Pairc in May after they beat Cork I said to my cousin that it would take a serious team to stop the Tipp forwards and so it proved....

I felt their backline was their Achilles heel as Cork also ran up a serious score line that day and Limerick possibly exposed them in the 2nd half in Limerick but on all Ireland day they withstood everything that was thrown at them, with Maher's catch in the build up to the first goal giving Tipp a massive lift when they were struggling slightly to find their feet.....

KK have had a glorious 20 yrs , it was never going to last forever......Tipp had their fallow period from 1971 to 1987 ( I think they even went 10/11 yrs in that time without a win in Munster....remember the scenes in 82/83 when they actually won one on the Sunday Game highlights...think Seamus Power played during that whole period maybe won 1/2 championship games)......Cork are now enduring a similar famine and by God its painful, my eldest is 11 and never seen cork hurlers lift an all Ireland at any grade from minor up so you enjoy the good times when they are there

Reality is the best team over the duration won the All Ireland, Limerick won a great NHL title while Wexford winning in Leinster was fantastic, a great year overall maybe not the same titanic tussles in Munster this year but we still had some great games and hurling to enjoy.....roll on 2020 and a Christy Ring for Down with a return to winning ways for the Rebels! ( I can live in hope)"
A lot of good sense in that post.Don't think any county will dominate again like Kilkenny did 2000-2015.Tipp seem set to dominate now but that also seemed to be the case in September 2010.I do think that if Liam Sheedy had stayed on in 2010,Tipp would have won more All-Irelands.Similarly,Donal O'Grady was a big loss to Cork when he quit after winning the 2004 All-Ireland Final.Liam Sheedy and Donal O'Grady are Cody's match on the sideline.So many other Managers have fallen short when up against Brian Cody on All-Ireland Final day.Cody has lost 5 All-Ireland Finals,3 Finals to Tipp and 2 Finals lost to Cork.So in 16 All-Ireland Finals,Cody has only lost to the other traditional big two of hurling which I think is noteworthy.

endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 1149 - 26/08/2019 13:33:44    2229402

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I think John Allen was a greater loss to Cork. O'Grady did a superb job to take a team in tatters in 2002 and have them as All Ireland finalists in 2003 and go a step further in 2004 despite losing the Munster Final to 14 man Waterford. But Allen managed to take over that team and still keep them moving forward with another final win and then another final appearance. Based on the time both spent in Limerick I'd say Allen did a better job too.

Cork were very fortunate to have both men in the one dressing room during that time.

endgame wrote:

Donal O'Grady was a big loss to Cork when he quit after winning the 2004 All-Ireland Final

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6189 - 26/08/2019 14:06:29    2229409

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Replying To slayer:  "I think John Allen was a greater loss to Cork. O'Grady did a superb job to take a team in tatters in 2002 and have them as All Ireland finalists in 2003 and go a step further in 2004 despite losing the Munster Final to 14 man Waterford. But Allen managed to take over that team and still keep them moving forward with another final win and then another final appearance. Based on the time both spent in Limerick I'd say Allen did a better job too.

Cork were very fortunate to have both men in the one dressing room during that time.

endgame wrote:

Donal O'Grady was a big loss to Cork when he quit after winning the 2004 All-Ireland Final"
Cork lost the 2006 All-Ireland Final to Kilkenny.That was a match where Cody tactically out thought Cork managed by John Allen.These are all matters of opinion but I would rate Donal O'Grady as a better Manager than John Allen.Cork managed by O'Grady beat Kilkenny well in the 2004 Final,having narrowly lost to them in the 2003 Final.

endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 1149 - 26/08/2019 18:18:27    2229504

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I was away on holiday for the match, followed the match on the live feed at the time. After looking at the match now. The sending off clearly ruined the game as a contest. I actually don't think it was a sending off, I think Hogan was actually trying to go through with a late shoulder, rather than trying to elbow in the face. It was a yellow card. The slow motion makes it look worse than it was. People watch the replays and forget that the incident happens so quickly (a bit like VAR in the last soccer world cup when penalty's were given for intentional hand ball that never would have been given previously). Disappointing Barrett went down like he did, he was not that bad. It's really not in the spirit of the game. In both football and hurling punishing simulation for me should be a priority for the GAA (maybe I'm old fashioned but I just hate seeing play exhageriting a tackle/ injury, love seeing the old school attitude of downplaying when you get hit to show your up for a tough game). This sort of thing should be clamped down on.
Having said that Tipp'd forwards are still wizards, their skill level is amazing. Still would help respected it more if they would have done this with 15 against 15.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 617 - 26/08/2019 20:29:33    2229540

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I dont think anyone can say that Tipp players were encouraged to go down easily by Sheedy,I do think that perhaps some players will decide themselves to stay down even if they are not hurt,perhaps they were encouraged by the window painting in Supermacs Thurles,I would suggest posters have a look at the facebook page of Supermacs Thurles

mooncat (Kilkenny) - Posts: 469 - 26/08/2019 20:39:26    2229542

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Well done to Tipp but it still doesn't feel right, the All Ireland hurling final should be played on the 1st Sunday in September, imagine our greatest sport ended mid August and nothing at county level again til the new year, this idea of freeing up sept for club matches didn't work last year and won't work this year either. Put our finals back into September

riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1389 - 26/08/2019 21:59:16    2229576

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