National Forum

6 Team Leinster Championship?

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Everyone has jumped on Waterfords bad form but forget that they were in an AI final 2 years ago.

Truth is all 5 Munster teams have been in finals in the last 10yrs with 3 different winners.
Leinster have had 2 teams (hopefully 3 after this year) with both picking up wins.

So until the likes of Laois and Carlow start making AI finals or even Leinster finals lets not be getting ahead of ourselves putting Waterford in the same bracket as them.
Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 148 - 10/07/2019 14:44:00

In the last 10 years Leinster teams have won 6 finals and been runners-up 5 times.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2460 - 10/07/2019 20:49:02    2209244

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Replying To Breezy:  "So if Carlow beat Waterford in a playoff what would it mean?

Do kerry get promoted instead of JoeMc winners Laois
Do Laois join Munster
Or do leinster have 6 teams and Munster 4

How can people not get it into their heads that Waterford were not exempt from relegation"
They were pretty much exempt. Ask a bookie what odds hed of given on Kerry winning the Joe Mac and then beating Waterford in a playoff. Id say they woyld be long odds.....

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11847 - 10/07/2019 21:22:49    2209256

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Carlow, Laois, Westmeath, Antrim, Kerry, Meath, Offaly and Down should work together to bring a motion for congress. These counties have to lobby for change and take more control of the situation. They did well to ensure that the McDonagh finalists got home preliminary round games."
Do these teams really want to play in the Liam Mccarthy tho? Laois went around to all the schools after the final. They would never get that chance with some of the proposals here. Can people not just sit back and look and see that its actually working really well at the minute.

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 10/07/2019 23:31:21    2209300

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Replying To Breezy:  "89 to 96 there was 9 teams and interestingly doesnt include waterford.

And of the 9 only Galway, Antrim and famously Limerick failed to take Liam home. Theres also a legend that Loughnane ordered the Clare bus to enter the county from the north so that Liam wouldnt even pass into Limerick county lines"
Wasn't aware of that either. Is this the new or latest golden era for hurling? I certainly think so. It's not too long ago that people were saying K's second team would win All Ireland's and they had a conveyor belt coming through. Now we have 8/9 teams that would have ambitions of winning an All Ireland.

5 & 5 currently works well so leave well enough alone.

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 10/07/2019 23:34:38    2209302

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Replying To tiobraid:  "Do these teams really want to play in the Liam Mccarthy tho? Laois went around to all the schools after the final. They would never get that chance with some of the proposals here. Can people not just sit back and look and see that its actually working really well at the minute."
Carlow are unhappy about going back to the McDonagh. Laois will feel the same if they finish 5th in Leinster next year.

If Carlow and Laois were playing each other in their final game of a 6 team Leinster Championship, the loser will at least feel they had a fair chance.

I think a McDonagh of the following for next year is balanced and fair: Westmeath, Antrim, Kerry, Meath, Offaly and Down. You'll have 3 Leinster teams, 2 Ulster teams and Kerry.

The top 3 to 4 of those 6 I've mentioned should be confident of establishing themselves at that level. I would like to see that give them the platform to expand their playing and support base.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7842 - 11/07/2019 08:14:58    2209325

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Replying To tiobraid:  "Do these teams really want to play in the Liam Mccarthy tho? Laois went around to all the schools after the final. They would never get that chance with some of the proposals here. Can people not just sit back and look and see that its actually working really well at the minute."
Simple answer: yes they do. To even question whether they do is ridiculous.

Ej (Wexford) - Posts: 355 - 11/07/2019 08:42:47    2209332

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Why not have both McDonagh cup finalists play the bottom in each province for the 5th place in the province for the following year?

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1732 - 11/07/2019 08:57:53    2209341

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "Why not have both McDonagh cup finalists play the bottom in each province for the 5th place in the province for the following year?"
There's no need. If Carlow v Laois are playing on the final day of a 6 team Leinster Championship, the loser will feel they were given a fair chance.

Play the McDonagh and Ring finals as a double header on the day before the Leinster Football final. This gives McDonagh finalists two weeks to prepare for the preliminary quarter-finals.

Enjoy the game!

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7842 - 11/07/2019 09:23:05    2209348

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Replying To tiobraid:  "Do these teams really want to play in the Liam Mccarthy tho? Laois went around to all the schools after the final. They would never get that chance with some of the proposals here. Can people not just sit back and look and see that its actually working really well at the minute."
They went around to the schools and the kids on their summer holidays ?
Don't think so - some of the players are coaching with cumann na mbunscol so maybe that's what you're referring to.

[url=]https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=372110143448074

PudsyRyan (Laois) - Posts: 15 - 11/07/2019 10:07:31    2209365

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there is talk of 2 groups of 4 which is absolutely complete and utter bs - the leinster teams would be obliterated at the knockout stage if they had only played 3 games and 1-2 against debatable opposition.
either level the playing field for everyone,have 2x groups of 6 in each province,with as someone above said a playoff with the joe mcdonagh cup winner,or leave it as it is.
there will always be a team or two just below the standard required and we have seen some bad hidings in the qualifiers.how long before we change it again?

the gaa are constantly tinkering with hurling and the systems are never given a chance to bed in.reactionary decisions have served the organisation badly.

Look at the whole setup,not just say "its up to you Leinster counties to promote hurling".

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 11/07/2019 11:11:30    2209396

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Replying To legendzxix:  "There's no need. If Carlow v Laois are playing on the final day of a 6 team Leinster Championship, the loser will feel they were given a fair chance.

Play the McDonagh and Ring finals as a double header on the day before the Leinster Football final. This gives McDonagh finalists two weeks to prepare for the preliminary quarter-finals.

Enjoy the game!"
Spot on!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11847 - 11/07/2019 11:13:21    2209398

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Replying To Cockney_Cat:  "Everyone has jumped on Waterfords bad form but forget that they were in an AI final 2 years ago.

Truth is all 5 Munster teams have been in finals in the last 10yrs with 3 different winners.
Leinster have had 2 teams (hopefully 3 after this year) with both picking up wins.

So until the likes of Laois and Carlow start making AI finals or even Leinster finals lets not be getting ahead of ourselves putting Waterford in the same bracket as them.
Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 148 - 10/07/2019 14:44:00

In the last 10 years Leinster teams have won 6 finals and been runners-up 5 times."
Ya Galway 1 and KK 5 and no other Leinster team in the final.

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 11/07/2019 11:28:21    2209411

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Replying To tiobraid:  "Do these teams really want to play in the Liam Mccarthy tho? Laois went around to all the schools after the final. They would never get that chance with some of the proposals here. Can people not just sit back and look and see that its actually working really well at the minute."
People also seem to forget the beatings that Offaly got last year very quickly. Carlow got a few bad ones this year too.
If this is agreed, how long before the row over whether the 6th team is Carlow or Westmeath?

That 2 x groups of 4 is the daftest idea in a while from the Leinster council. Imagine Wexford or Kilkenny going out to play Limerick having had a group of Dublin, Laois and Westmeath, with all due respects to those counties I feel this is just tilting the scales towards the Munster counties who will have had 4 tough games to get to the quarter final stage.
This could just be the most reactionary, poorly thought out proposal in years from the Leinster council.

If these counties were winning all round them at underage, I would be only too happy to see them coming in. But its 20 years since any county outside of Wexford/KK/Dublin/Galway have won anything in Leinster underage.

Leave well enough alone, earn your place, and if Wexford are relegated to the Joe McDonagh next year so be it, it shouldn't just be changed to suit agendas.

The relegation issue in Munster just won't go away though and can't be ignored in any restructure.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1732 - 11/07/2019 11:29:48    2209412

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Carlow are unhappy about going back to the McDonagh. Laois will feel the same if they finish 5th in Leinster next year.

If Carlow and Laois were playing each other in their final game of a 6 team Leinster Championship, the loser will at least feel they had a fair chance.

I think a McDonagh of the following for next year is balanced and fair: Westmeath, Antrim, Kerry, Meath, Offaly and Down. You'll have 3 Leinster teams, 2 Ulster teams and Kerry.

The top 3 to 4 of those 6 I've mentioned should be confident of establishing themselves at that level. I would like to see that give them the platform to expand their playing and support base."
Teams are always unhappy about being relegated. Still happens though

Also this from the Leinster chairman

"I even mentioned at looking at having two groups of four at one stage because we were looking at Carlow, Laois, Offaly and Westmeath, we felt they had closed the gap to a level that allowed us to look at that option"

On what planet are Offaly closing the gap. Another excuse to put them back where they dont deserve to be because of past glory

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 11/07/2019 11:33:55    2209417

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "People also seem to forget the beatings that Offaly got last year very quickly. Carlow got a few bad ones this year too.
If this is agreed, how long before the row over whether the 6th team is Carlow or Westmeath?

That 2 x groups of 4 is the daftest idea in a while from the Leinster council. Imagine Wexford or Kilkenny going out to play Limerick having had a group of Dublin, Laois and Westmeath, with all due respects to those counties I feel this is just tilting the scales towards the Munster counties who will have had 4 tough games to get to the quarter final stage.
This could just be the most reactionary, poorly thought out proposal in years from the Leinster council.

If these counties were winning all round them at underage, I would be only too happy to see them coming in. But its 20 years since any county outside of Wexford/KK/Dublin/Galway have won anything in Leinster underage.

Leave well enough alone, earn your place, and if Wexford are relegated to the Joe McDonagh next year so be it, it shouldn't just be changed to suit agendas.

The relegation issue in Munster just won't go away though and can't be ignored in any restructure."
Yes but if you had 2 groups of 4 you could halve semi finals and a final. So wex would still get a semi final v let's say Galway and then a final , so ample prep for a Munster team. Two losing semi finalists play off for the red spot. So each team would still get 5 decent games then. Bottom of each group could have relegation play off. I think two groups 4 would be perfect. Group 1 . Kk Galway offaly Carlow. Group 2 wexford Dublin laois Westmeath. Then semi finals etc.

Malonemagic (Laois) - Posts: 766 - 11/07/2019 11:46:49    2209421

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Replying To Breezy:  "Teams are always unhappy about being relegated. Still happens though

Also this from the Leinster chairman

"I even mentioned at looking at having two groups of four at one stage because we were looking at Carlow, Laois, Offaly and Westmeath, we felt they had closed the gap to a level that allowed us to look at that option"

On what planet are Offaly closing the gap. Another excuse to put them back where they dont deserve to be because of past glory"
Yes, of course teams are unhappy about being relegated. A 6th team however would give the promoted team a fairer chance. The competition lines were a bit drastic. There is no harm to review as planned.

2 groups of 4 is a bit much. I think the McDonagh group of 6 I've outlined need an opportunity to become established at that level.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7842 - 11/07/2019 11:53:58    2209423

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Is there likely to be support for the mooted idea in some quarters for 8 teams in the Leinster Hurling Championship? Here is how it would shape up;

MUNSTER
Limerick, Tipperary, Cork, Clare & Waterford.

LEINSTER
Gp1 - Wexford, Galway, Carlow & Westmeath.
Gp2 - Kilkenny, Dublin, Laois & Antrim.

McDONAGH
Kerry, Meath, Offaly, Down & Derry.

RING
Roscommon, Wicklow, Kildare, London & Sligo.

3 teams would move from McDonagh to Leinster Championship. 3 teams would move from Ring to McDonagh.

The Leinster semi-final losers would probably playoff in preliminary quarter-final. The McDonagh winner would probably take on the Munster 3rd placed team in the other preliminary quarter-final.

There would be scope for McDonagh and Ring as 5 team groups to have their finals as a double header on the day before the Leinster Football final. This would allow the McDonagh winner two weeks preparation for their preliminary quarter-final.

I'm in favour of a 6th team in one province. The GAA being the GAA will find their own way!

In the above, the bottom placed teams in Leinster would have to play in a relegation final but not relegated if Kerry win the McDonagh Cup. Kerry's playoff against the 5th team in Munster will probably remain.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7842 - 11/07/2019 13:03:06    2209471

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storystash makes a good point above,if these counties are really up to the standard then why isn't their underage record reflecting it?
honestly i think it is up to these counties to focus there rather than coming up with some hodge podge championship which will only play into the munster counties hands.

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 11/07/2019 17:44:56    2209613

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There seems to be good support for a 6 team Leinster Championship. It'll probably go to congress next year and will be in place in 2021.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7842 - 11/07/2019 21:30:47    2209706

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Replying To Malonemagic:  "Yes but if you had 2 groups of 4 you could halve semi finals and a final. So wex would still get a semi final v let's say Galway and then a final , so ample prep for a Munster team. Two losing semi finalists play off for the red spot. So each team would still get 5 decent games then. Bottom of each group could have relegation play off. I think two groups 4 would be perfect. Group 1 . Kk Galway offaly Carlow. Group 2 wexford Dublin laois Westmeath. Then semi finals etc."
You seriously think Offaly are up to the standard of that group?
As bad as a 6 team proposal is, this one is even worse.
If it is to be 6, then there must be 6 in Munster too.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1732 - 12/07/2019 08:48:37    2209792

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