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Leinster Football The Reality

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Replying To realdub:  "I've never said we don't have advantages, and money is an issue that should be looked at on a national level. But the problem I have is there is more outcry about money than praise for a brilliant set of players.

An unfair financial advantage would help Dublin stay at the top for the years to come but money did not buy our recent success, skill, commitment, bravery and great management did that."
I would suggest they all receive An Bonn Míleata Calmachta, with such militaristic endeavor. Sounds like they have done the state some service & need to be recognized.

greysoil (Monaghan) - Posts: 546 - 25/06/2019 20:59:52    2200890

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Replying To Jack_Goff:  "It most certainly did. Take away the 5 odd million a year your county spends and you'd still be in the doldrums, especially hurling. By your lofty standards of course because even at your lowest you were still decent.

I believe you are entitled to a lot of this money including your sponsorship but there's no doubt money equals more success.

It's like saying if you'd the same number of clubs as Louth with the same number of players you'd be just as good. You wouldn't and all your many advantages aid your success. Otherwise they're not advantages.

Yeah man City dominate England with skill and hard work but without the advantages they have over say Everton they'd be at a much lower level."
All good Manchester lads too

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 7515 - 25/06/2019 21:21:22    2200908

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Replying To madfeen:  "I don't know what "media platforms" you are referring to there but they definitely aren't the same ones I have been reading. I can guarantee you that if you went on Facebook or Twitter tomorrow and said that finance had played a part in Dublin's success you would be absolutely savaged straight away. I have never once seen in print or online a Dublin supporter agree with anyone who put this to him. Quite the opposite in fact. They go absolutely mental when you say it.
It's "good coaching structures", "hard-working volunteers", "better organisation" but not money, oh no.
I am not saying that the finance on it's own is the reason for the Dubs success, of course it isn't. However only a fool would say it hasn't played a part. But no Dub will agree with you when you say it.
If the GAA were stupid enough to give to Cork what they have been giving to Dublin I have no doubt it would be wasted and probably not result in a single All-Ireland. Dublin have spent the money well, that seems clear.
But it still doesn't make it right."
I can guarantee you that if you went on Facebook or Twitter tomorrow and said that finance had played a part in Dublin's success you would be absolutely savaged straight away.

Now I know you are having a giggle. Ewan McKenna, Martin Breheny, Eamonn Sweeney to name but 3 have all talked at length on Twitter about the funding imbalance to much applause by hundreds of other posters. Kieran Cunningam, Perer O'Leary I mean I could go on? Eamon O'Callaghan wants the other Leinster teams to boycott the Leinster championship next year so you must be living under a rock if you think otherwise.

No Dub will agree with you? There have been plenty of people on HS including myself who say the funding imbalance needs to be sorted so I dont know where you're getting that from.

Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 3717 - 25/06/2019 21:39:26    2200927

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The debate here reminds me of a fundraiser I was at a few years ago where Johnny Doyle the former Kildare footballer was one of the speakers. He was asked about Kildare trying to complete with Dublin. He was saying McGeeney (their manager at the time) had got huge hassle for arranging to bring the Kildare squad abroad for warm weather training and how hard it was for him to get funding for this. When they eventually got there they ended up meeting a Dublin underage club team (can't remember if it was minor or U21) who were also over there to do warm weather training.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 568 - 25/06/2019 22:17:38    2200960

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The funny thing I wonder about all the funding Dublin are getting. The money seems to really got the ball rolling and being successful spent. I wonder by now is the growth self sustaining and actually needed now ?.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 568 - 25/06/2019 22:22:07    2200963

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Replying To Jackeen:  "I can guarantee you that if you went on Facebook or Twitter tomorrow and said that finance had played a part in Dublin's success you would be absolutely savaged straight away.

Now I know you are having a giggle. Ewan McKenna, Martin Breheny, Eamonn Sweeney to name but 3 have all talked at length on Twitter about the funding imbalance to much applause by hundreds of other posters. Kieran Cunningam, Perer O'Leary I mean I could go on? Eamon O'Callaghan wants the other Leinster teams to boycott the Leinster championship next year so you must be living under a rock if you think otherwise.

No Dub will agree with you? There have been plenty of people on HS including myself who say the funding imbalance needs to be sorted so I dont know where you're getting that from."
Absolutely

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 7515 - 25/06/2019 22:29:13    2200970

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Replying To joeteor:  "A bit worse? Nobody can get with 10 points of them and usually not within 15."
This year the Dubs have been out in force down playing the team. Doing their best to convince us they'll come back to the pack any year now. And sure the gap isn't that big. They'll be back losing Leinsters in no time. Meath, Kildare and Laois just need a few more volunteers like.

Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2627 - 25/06/2019 22:31:00    2200971

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Replying To Jack_Goff:  "This year the Dubs have been out in force down playing the team. Doing their best to convince us they'll come back to the pack any year now. And sure the gap isn't that big. They'll be back losing Leinsters in no time. Meath, Kildare and Laois just need a few more volunteers like."
Do Wexford , Louth , Westmeath , Longford Carlow and Wicklow not count like ?

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 1683 - 25/06/2019 22:54:13    2200983

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Replying To Joxer:  "Basquel is no longer in the squad. Davey Byrne and Lowndes would not be first choice over the 2011 players like Philly, ROC, Cooper, McCarthy and Cian. The real finds have been Kilkenny, Mannion, Jack and Fenton. I think Howard will come good and may be the new Flynn but don't forget that the following players will likely go next year...
Cluxton
Philly
Cooper
McCarthy
Cian
Michael DM
Brogan
Andrews
Kevin Mc
Fitzy

... all from 2011. We have come nowhere near to replacing these lads in the last 5-7 years so I don't know where this production line nonsense is coming from. In fact I don't think there are any new additions this year. Couple this with the loss of Flynn and Connolly and the void is very evident."
Apologies. I seemed to have missed the "void" you speak of.
Dublin won the all Ireland last year by the largest margin of all the 6 they have won this decade. Just coasted to another Leinster without half the players you mentioned as being key players.
The bookies certainly don't see what you see, or most of the country.
Dublin seem to have hidden this void from everyone but yourself

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 753 - 26/06/2019 07:36:29    2201041

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Replying To greysoil:  "I would suggest they all receive An Bonn Míleata Calmachta, with such militaristic endeavor. Sounds like they have done the state some service & need to be recognized."
This award definitely should be given. They really are great lads who I'm sure they would forgo any appearance money to attend the award ceremony.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 568 - 26/06/2019 13:33:02    2201239

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Replying To bdbuddah:  "The debate here reminds me of a fundraiser I was at a few years ago where Johnny Doyle the former Kildare footballer was one of the speakers. He was asked about Kildare trying to complete with Dublin. He was saying McGeeney (their manager at the time) had got huge hassle for arranging to bring the Kildare squad abroad for warm weather training and how hard it was for him to get funding for this. When they eventually got there they ended up meeting a Dublin underage club team (can't remember if it was minor or U21) who were also over there to do warm weather training."
I have a hunch I know this story and if I'm right it wasn't even an u16 team,bottom line was the two individuals running this team were two well heeled and well connected business people who either at there own expense or through sponsorship or both paid for the trip (parents probably contributed) . So sorry to burst some people's bubble but I don't think it was from gaa coffers. And by the way I personally think this type of over the top spending and mollycoddling of youngsters is way over the top and unfair to put it mildly.

Monkeycatcher (Meath) - Posts: 80 - 26/06/2019 15:15:55    2201292

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "Apologies. I seemed to have missed the "void" you speak of.
Dublin won the all Ireland last year by the largest margin of all the 6 they have won this decade. Just coasted to another Leinster without half the players you mentioned as being key players.
The bookies certainly don't see what you see, or most of the country.
Dublin seem to have hidden this void from everyone but yourself"
Yes but of course I've missed a handful of league games and just two championship games in the past 15 years. I've been attending Dublin games since the late 70s with the Da. I follow the scene and players very closely and know some of them. But no look you're probably right. Perhaps lads like yourself who see them once or twice a year on the SG are the real experts when it comes to the health of the Dublin squad. Sure what would die hard Dublin fans know about our own panel? You do realise that Dublin games involve two teams and the score "gap" is not just down to a Dublin good performance. Perhaps a poor opposition performance (hint hint Meath) may play a part. A bit of lateral thinking for ye good lad.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 3617 - 26/06/2019 18:43:53    2201395

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Just regard leinster football. I put this up before so I am going to put it again.So sorry for the repetition but I think leinster football is not the only provience that has being trouble, Munster has been a problem provience for long time, but people seem to ignore this fact. Anyway the below explains what I mean.

This is the most uncompetitive leinster championship in 130 years. Meath are having their worst decade since 1920s. Kildare are also having one of their worst decades ( along with the 1980s) since 1920s. Offaly are having their worst decade since 1950s , since before they emerged on the football scene. Laois are having their worst decade since 1970s. While louth are going up and down divisions 4 3 2 yearly. Wicklow are stuck in division 4 after a good decade in the 00s. While Wexford are back in div 4 after having their best decade since the 40s in the 00s.

Only Dublin with their greatest team ever, Carlow having their best period in 30 years, Westmeath are having solid period with their first ever consecutive leinster finals appearances in a row and Longford are also making solid progess.

But overall this decade is an all time low for leinster football. Dublin havent had to face strong division 1 opposition ( a team in division 1 year after year) since early 00s. Compared to early 90s when you had 4 top division 1 teams in the proviences all wining leinster titles and playing in national finals . Compared to every decade or era when you had at least two top division 1 teams in leinster winning leinster titles and winning or at least reaching an All Ireland final. Its 17 years since a leinster team other then Dublin reached a All Ireland final. That has never happened before. So Tomas is right there.

But the issue I have is people forgot or ignored that you could also say Munster football has been in the same situation for generations as leinster is currently. Kerry have dominated Munster football pretty much for 100 years the same way Dublin r dominating leinster football at the moment. He says leinster teams are beating before they ever enter the field v Dublin. You could say the same thing about Kerry in Munster for 100 years. There is an aura surrounding kerry down South where the rest in Munster for generations dont believe they can beat the kingdom.

Yes Tipp and Clare are making good progress recently . But will they beat kerry in a Munster final in the next 4 or 5 years. Theres no gurantee they will. Tipp havent won a Munster title in 80 years, Clare have won 1 Munster title in 90 years and limerick havent won a Munster title in 120 years. Waterford havent won a Munster title in 120 years also their only Munster title. That doesnt make for a very competitive Munster championship since 1900. The Munster championship has been won by Kerry or Cork every year since 1923 with the exception of victories by Tipperary in 1935 and Clare in 1992. Watterford havent beaten Kerry in Munster championship in 60 years. Tipperary havent beaten Kerry in the Munster championship in 91 years. And Limerick havent beaten Kerry in the Munster championship in 120 years. Clare have beaten Kerry once in the Munster championship in 80 years.

Look at the below stats, look at Kerrys sucess rate in Munster

1920s: 6 for Kerry (1923-24-25-26-27-29)
1930s: 9 for Kerry (1930-31-32-33-34-36-37-38-39)
1940s: 7 for Kerry (1940-41-42-44-46-47-48)
1950s: 7 for Kerry (1950-51-53-54-55-58-59)
1960s: 8 for Kerry (1960-61-62-63-64-65-68-69)
1970s: 7 for Kerry (1970-72-75-76-77-78-79)
1980s: 6 for Kerry (1980-81-82-84-85-86)
1990s: 5 for Cork (1990-93-94-95-99)
2000s: 6 for Kerry (2000-01-03-04-05-07)
2010s: 7 for Kerry (2010-11-13-14-15-16-17)

Then you take Cork. Cork and Kerry is the biggest myth of a rivalry in GAA. Most rivalries both teams have periods of domination or sucess over the other. Kilkenny and Tipp have great battles where supremacy swings from one to another. Mayo and Galway is very 50 50 rivalry if u take out Galways All Ireland wins. Mayo are sucessful for years then Galway are sucessful. The same with Meath and Dublin. For 80 years Meath went toe to toe with Dublin until this decade. For years Dublin teams couldnt beat Meath teams year after year ( Late 40s , late 50s, 60s, late 80s, late 90s) and for years Meath couldnt beat Dublin teams ( Late 50s, Late 70s, Early 80s, mid 90s , 00s ). Meath won 7 All Irelands to Dublins 9 in that 80 year period. With Meath having the same sucess rate as Dublin in 40s 50s 60s ( 1 All Ireland win each in each decade) and Dublin being more sucessful in 70s ( 3 All Irelands) and Meath more sucessful in 80s and 90s (Meath 4 All Irelands to Dublins 2). A very equal rivalry until this decade.

But with the exception of the late 80s and early 90s Cork have been second best to kerry since Independence. Kerry were the dominate force in Munster football in the 1920s, 30s,40s,50s,60s, 70s, early 1980s and 00s and this decade. There is the odd Cork year of sucess in between eg 1973 but overall you take out late 80s and early 90s , and pretty much for 90% of the last 100 years kerry have been top dog in Munster. Kerry always play up how how Cork good are. And they need a Cork Munster final to prepare them for the championship outside Munster.

There is no love lost between kerry and Cork and a Munster final with Cork and Kerry in killarney or Pairc ui Chaoimh is always a grand occasion. But usually always kerry win. look at how Cork couldnt beat kerry in Croke Park in 00s. Cork is a masive football county. Has more football clubs then kerry. Yet for many Cork GAA people hurling is number 1. Been defeated kerry yearly probaly meant Cork hurling is held in higher esteem down south. Cork for all their resources should be on double the All Irelands at least and double the Munster titles. But kerry have had them in metal vice grip for generations. And at the moment Cork are at their lowest since 1950s. That was the last time they were in divsion 2 and been beating by Tipp in the championship.

So when people says Leinster foot all is a joke he is right. But if you put the same criteria to Munster football, that teams in Munster are beaten before they ever enter the field v kerry. Is Munster football a bigger joke for a longer period. Am I been harsh on Munster.

Also there also being periods when Connacht and Ulster were one sided and had lean years. From 1900 to 1960 with the odd Antrim victory , Cavan dominated Ulster . Winning 20 or so Ulster tiltles out of maybe 21. Cavan had the same aura , Dublin have at the moment were teams were beaten before they entered the field for half century v Cavan teams in Ulster.

Down changed that in the 60s. While in the 70s and 80s Ulster football was very uncompetitive when teams came out of the province. It must be said there was conflict , a war basically in the north so that made it almost impossible for Ulster teams to prepare properly. Since 1990s the best teams, best players, best tactics, best managers have come from Ulster and it has became the strongest provience. With Down Donegal Derry Tyrone and Armgh all winning Sam. However with 4 All Ireland wins in the 90s and 4 more in the 00s. Ulster has only won 1 All Ireland in this decade so far. So has the provience of Ulster somewhat declined in this decade so far.

In Connacht the 1970s 80s and early 90s, Connacht championship was seen as weak also. However particularly Mayo have risen Connacht football promience in the game in the last 20 years. And Connacht teams at the moment have 3 top division 1 teams with Mayo Galway and Roscommon. But the fact is in the last 50 years Connacht teams have only won 2 All Irelands to Ulsters 10 All Ireland titles and Munsters 21 All Ireland titles and leinsters 17 All Ireland titles in the same time period.

All the proviences have had very bad periods and lean years. leinster is just having its least competitive currently. But even though there is a less sense of togetherness in leinster then Connacht or Ulster in the GAA. This decade will show that Ulster have won 1 All Ireland, Munster have won 1 All Ireland and leinster have won 5 All Irelands so far.

Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 806 - 29/06/2019 05:55:26    2202255

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Replying To Furlong1949:  "Just regard leinster football. I put this up before so I am going to put it again.So sorry for the repetition but I think leinster football is not the only provience that has being trouble, Munster has been a problem provience for long time, but people seem to ignore this fact. Anyway the below explains what I mean.

This is the most uncompetitive leinster championship in 130 years. Meath are having their worst decade since 1920s. Kildare are also having one of their worst decades ( along with the 1980s) since 1920s. Offaly are having their worst decade since 1950s , since before they emerged on the football scene. Laois are having their worst decade since 1970s. While louth are going up and down divisions 4 3 2 yearly. Wicklow are stuck in division 4 after a good decade in the 00s. While Wexford are back in div 4 after having their best decade since the 40s in the 00s.

Only Dublin with their greatest team ever, Carlow having their best period in 30 years, Westmeath are having solid period with their first ever consecutive leinster finals appearances in a row and Longford are also making solid progess.

But overall this decade is an all time low for leinster football. Dublin havent had to face strong division 1 opposition ( a team in division 1 year after year) since early 00s. Compared to early 90s when you had 4 top division 1 teams in the proviences all wining leinster titles and playing in national finals . Compared to every decade or era when you had at least two top division 1 teams in leinster winning leinster titles and winning or at least reaching an All Ireland final. Its 17 years since a leinster team other then Dublin reached a All Ireland final. That has never happened before. So Tomas is right there.

But the issue I have is people forgot or ignored that you could also say Munster football has been in the same situation for generations as leinster is currently. Kerry have dominated Munster football pretty much for 100 years the same way Dublin r dominating leinster football at the moment. He says leinster teams are beating before they ever enter the field v Dublin. You could say the same thing about Kerry in Munster for 100 years. There is an aura surrounding kerry down South where the rest in Munster for generations dont believe they can beat the kingdom.

Yes Tipp and Clare are making good progress recently . But will they beat kerry in a Munster final in the next 4 or 5 years. Theres no gurantee they will. Tipp havent won a Munster title in 80 years, Clare have won 1 Munster title in 90 years and limerick havent won a Munster title in 120 years. Waterford havent won a Munster title in 120 years also their only Munster title. That doesnt make for a very competitive Munster championship since 1900. The Munster championship has been won by Kerry or Cork every year since 1923 with the exception of victories by Tipperary in 1935 and Clare in 1992. Watterford havent beaten Kerry in Munster championship in 60 years. Tipperary havent beaten Kerry in the Munster championship in 91 years. And Limerick havent beaten Kerry in the Munster championship in 120 years. Clare have beaten Kerry once in the Munster championship in 80 years.

Look at the below stats, look at Kerrys sucess rate in Munster

1920s: 6 for Kerry (1923-24-25-26-27-29)
1930s: 9 for Kerry (1930-31-32-33-34-36-37-38-39)
1940s: 7 for Kerry (1940-41-42-44-46-47-48)
1950s: 7 for Kerry (1950-51-53-54-55-58-59)
1960s: 8 for Kerry (1960-61-62-63-64-65-68-69)
1970s: 7 for Kerry (1970-72-75-76-77-78-79)
1980s: 6 for Kerry (1980-81-82-84-85-86)
1990s: 5 for Cork (1990-93-94-95-99)
2000s: 6 for Kerry (2000-01-03-04-05-07)
2010s: 7 for Kerry (2010-11-13-14-15-16-17)

Then you take Cork. Cork and Kerry is the biggest myth of a rivalry in GAA. Most rivalries both teams have periods of domination or sucess over the other. Kilkenny and Tipp have great battles where supremacy swings from one to another. Mayo and Galway is very 50 50 rivalry if u take out Galways All Ireland wins. Mayo are sucessful for years then Galway are sucessful. The same with Meath and Dublin. For 80 years Meath went toe to toe with Dublin until this decade. For years Dublin teams couldnt beat Meath teams year after year ( Late 40s , late 50s, 60s, late 80s, late 90s) and for years Meath couldnt beat Dublin teams ( Late 50s, Late 70s, Early 80s, mid 90s , 00s ). Meath won 7 All Irelands to Dublins 9 in that 80 year period. With Meath having the same sucess rate as Dublin in 40s 50s 60s ( 1 All Ireland win each in each decade) and Dublin being more sucessful in 70s ( 3 All Irelands) and Meath more sucessful in 80s and 90s (Meath 4 All Irelands to Dublins 2). A very equal rivalry until this decade.

But with the exception of the late 80s and early 90s Cork have been second best to kerry since Independence. Kerry were the dominate force in Munster football in the 1920s, 30s,40s,50s,60s, 70s, early 1980s and 00s and this decade. There is the odd Cork year of sucess in between eg 1973 but overall you take out late 80s and early 90s , and pretty much for 90% of the last 100 years kerry have been top dog in Munster. Kerry always play up how how Cork good are. And they need a Cork Munster final to prepare them for the championship outside Munster.

There is no love lost between kerry and Cork and a Munster final with Cork and Kerry in killarney or Pairc ui Chaoimh is always a grand occasion. But usually always kerry win. look at how Cork couldnt beat kerry in Croke Park in 00s. Cork is a masive football county. Has more football clubs then kerry. Yet for many Cork GAA people hurling is number 1. Been defeated kerry yearly probaly meant Cork hurling is held in higher esteem down south. Cork for all their resources should be on double the All Irelands at least and double the Munster titles. But kerry have had them in metal vice grip for generations. And at the moment Cork are at their lowest since 1950s. That was the last time they were in divsion 2 and been beating by Tipp in the championship.

So when people says Leinster foot all is a joke he is right. But if you put the same criteria to Munster football, that teams in Munster are beaten before they ever enter the field v kerry. Is Munster football a bigger joke for a longer period. Am I been harsh on Munster.

Also there also being periods when Connacht and Ulster were one sided and had lean years. From 1900 to 1960 with the odd Antrim victory , Cavan dominated Ulster . Winning 20 or so Ulster tiltles out of maybe 21. Cavan had the same aura , Dublin have at the moment were teams were beaten before they entered the field for half century v Cavan teams in Ulster.

Down changed that in the 60s. While in the 70s and 80s Ulster football was very uncompetitive when teams came out of the province. It must be said there was conflict , a war basically in the north so that made it almost impossible for Ulster teams to prepare properly. Since 1990s the best teams, best players, best tactics, best managers have come from Ulster and it has became the strongest provience. With Down Donegal Derry Tyrone and Armgh all winning Sam. However with 4 All Ireland wins in the 90s and 4 more in the 00s. Ulster has only won 1 All Ireland in this decade so far. So has the provience of Ulster somewhat declined in this decade so far.

In Connacht the 1970s 80s and early 90s, Connacht championship was seen as weak also. However particularly Mayo have risen Connacht football promience in the game in the last 20 years. And Connacht teams at the moment have 3 top division 1 teams with Mayo Galway and Roscommon. But the fact is in the last 50 years Connacht teams have only won 2 All Irelands to Ulsters 10 All Ireland titles and Munsters 21 All Ireland titles and leinsters 17 All Ireland titles in the same time period.

All the proviences have had very bad periods and lean years. leinster is just having its least competitive currently. But even though there is a less sense of togetherness in leinster then Connacht or Ulster in the GAA. This decade will show that Ulster have won 1 All Ireland, Munster have won 1 All Ireland and leinster have won 5 All Irelands so far."
Did any of the other three provinces ever have a team winning 14 out of 15 provincial titles with no end to the dominance in sight ? Dublin won this year's title by an average margin of 19 points . Leinster is your largest province with 11 counties involved . The majority of those counties are primarily football counties . Munster has only six counties and five of those are hurling counties first. You are not comparing like with like. The Leinster football championship is dead.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 4978 - 29/06/2019 10:17:44    2202284

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Replying To Greengrass:  "Did any of the other three provinces ever have a team winning 14 out of 15 provincial titles with no end to the dominance in sight ? Dublin won this year's title by an average margin of 19 points . Leinster is your largest province with 11 counties involved . The majority of those counties are primarily football counties . Munster has only six counties and five of those are hurling counties first. You are not comparing like with like. The Leinster football championship is dead."
Why do we have to compare like with like though? Both provinces are dead. Kerry have won 15 of the last 20 Munster titles.

lilylanger (Kildare) - Posts: 225 - 29/06/2019 11:40:01    2202311

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