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Replying To Jack_Goff: ""underage success has been scare since".
Are you trained by the same PR team as Jim Gavin? Since 2010 you've won 4 all Ireland u21's. That's the underage grade that counts the most.
Since 2010 you've won 6 u21 leinster titles. Yeah lads I'm sure this won't last forever. Keep telling yourselves that. I've been saying it for years you'd dominate and I was right. I'm saying now you'll be lucky to lose 1 AI in the next 5 years and 2 in the next 10. You'll be lucky to lose 1 Leinster in that time. The football championship is well and truly in the midst of it's darkest ever era." I agree Jack. The Dubs on this forum are a good bunch, theyre intelligent fellows but they just dont see the bigger picture here or have their heads purposely in the sand. Leinster is finished. It has been finished in its current format for years. It died a very silent death and only now and in the last few seasons has this been realised. To all Dublin posters I ask you this: A new decade is nearly upon us, between now and 2030 given the current and contemporary structure and funding, investment, sponsorships and incentives, its possible Dublin will win perhaps the next 10 Leinster's, and Id give the conservative estimate at 6/7 All-Irelands. That would be a total of 7 this decade assuming they win this one, I think they will at a canter, and the same in the next decade. So 14/15/16 titles in 20 years, that is a reality. At what point does all this just crystallise to people that this is bigger than a few under-21 titles, and a lucky golden generation etc? At what point do Dublin and the GAA itself accept the absolute farce of a situation they've created, own up, and actually do something to help the rest of us pulling for table scraps? I tell you now time and patience is wearing thin around the country. There'll be a day you'll be collecting Sam Maguire in front of maybe 40,000 apathetic people who are using the event as a Social media photo op, and nothing more.
Young_gael (Meath) - Posts: 587 - 24/06/2019 20:16:30
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I was just reading an article on line where Declan Rowley is calling for all Leinster counties except Dublin to boycott the Leinster championship until changes are made by the top brass,
Maybe we should all join our Leinster brothers in this.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 24/06/2019 20:18:52
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This is a special Dublin team so I'm not sure there is much Leinster counties could have done over the last 10 years or so! However the worrying development is even when this Dublin team fall into the pack which will happen, the Leinster coaching set ups seem so poor they won't be able to stop Dublin. I can see a situation where Dublin continue to win Leinster for fun but All Ireland's become less frequent. Meath's basic skills especially shooting was so bad one would have to ask how bad is the basic skills in other Leinster counties if Meath are meant to be"second". The Leinster final added weight to the GAA's argument that other counties need to up their game. Dublin funding does not stop counties from kicking points that you'd expect a good club player to kick.
sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 24/06/2019 20:20:42
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Replying To bobkarlgees: "Right Dublin success has nothing to do with money nothing to do with population. They still have won the last 14 out of 15 leinster championships. How many more do they need to win before somebody says enough is enough ? why continue with this farce ?
All-right Meath are possibly under achieving. We need to get to Dublin level right ? Dublin are as close as you can get to a professional setup. The GAA is amateur organization. teams like Meath are never going to be able to get to that professional level. And players dont want it either as players are walking away from inter county teams all the time because the commitment it to great. Supporters are now not attending matches its a mess." Kerry have a similar record in Munster and nobody is saying enough is enough there. Cork have a bigger population and more clubs to choose from than Kerry. the general feeling there is that Cork need to sort their underage structures and coaching etc to compete with the might of Kerry.
the same thing was said of an underachieving Dublin side for years. I'm not saying money has nothing to do with it but big counties like Meath aren't at the races like they used to be and that's nobody's fault but Meath. You used to be a regular division one side which hasnt been the case for a long stretch. at least that seems to be heading in the right direction though. but i honestly believe the drubbing Meath got yesterday and other teams like them, is mostly down to the work of Jim Gavin. before he arrived Dublin were very beatable. now the machine works too well for the loss of individuals to have a major impact. i just wish to christ he fancied a new challenge 2 hours up the road!
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2385 - 24/06/2019 20:32:03
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Replying To Jackeen: "The OP was talking about pick unless I read it wrong. And our pick was always bigger." But the (and let's be honest and call it this) professional structures Dublin now have in place, fuelled by massive investment now means that the big pick is producing a conveyor belt of players to the super clubs in the county, and by extension, the senior intercounty team.
Those players weren't always brought thru before and were lost to other sports, other life choices, under-development of talent, etc. . . Now Dublin are keeping talented players in the game, giving them exposure to full-time coaches, and it is reaping huge dividend at Senior intercounty level.
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5012 - 24/06/2019 20:36:08
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Replying To bobkarlgees: "Right Dublin success has nothing to do with money nothing to do with population. They still have won the last 14 out of 15 leinster championships. How many more do they need to win before somebody says enough is enough ? why continue with this farce ?
All-right Meath are possibly under achieving. We need to get to Dublin level right ? Dublin are as close as you can get to a professional setup. The GAA is amateur organization. teams like Meath are never going to be able to get to that professional level. And players dont want it either as players are walking away from inter county teams all the time because the commitment it to great. Supporters are now not attending matches its a mess." When Cavan were lording it over Ulster or Kerry Munster should We have scrapped the Prov Champs or changed all the rules of the game? No get over it. Meath won Christy Ring and London and Derry didnt maybe we should take money from Meath cause clearly there is a problem there
Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 24/06/2019 20:39:21
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Replying To witnof: "I think the reality is that Dublin are by far the best team in Leinster.
After that the 'cluchies' have no idea if what's going on in the ground so everything is but down to money as the easy option.
How much did Longford get....and do not tell me it wasn't Games Development money so doesn't count." Didn't Fermanagh ask the GAA to come up with a development plan a few years back? The GAA told them they had to raise X amount and they'd fund the balance. After raising the funds the GAA then decided to go ahead with the plan. Read that on twitter today. Has anyone else heard that before?
Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 24/06/2019 20:50:16
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This is an important point, take Gavin out of Dublin and Dublin go back into the pack or wouldn't have broke from it in 2013.
I can see another Dublin manager doing things very differently, preserving with the likes of Mannion and pulling lads like Fenton, Kilkennys, Rocks, Costello's and Howard from no where, there are many others.. To give some brief examples but there are many.
I shudder to think of how other Dublin managers may have persevered with the class of 2011/13, the MDM, Brogans, Flynn's Connolly's, Mackers under a different manager now they could all still be starting. how often do we counties persevere with names of old that don't shine so brightly, almost every county.
Under different management Dublin could be quite different, we often here of counties will be coming because of all the young players coming through, no one has blooded as many successful players as Dublin. His approach is two fold he gives youth his chance, but he is also an excellent coach, players improve year in year out, I don't think people see that to be honest. The players under his management become far better players through his coaching methods.
I remember in the mid 90 and Crokes were mopping club titles very few of those lads were given opportunities in the Dublin senior team, the lads who one the All Ireland in 95 were given preference when many were finished. It was a generation lost as these players drifted away from the county scene.
This could have easily of happened to Dublin again without Jim Gavin mark my words, he was there to on those teams in the 90s and had first hand experience. Dublin is a massive job and go go spectacularly wrong very easy, the difference in Jim Gavin, when he's finished he will be considered the greatest, I've little doubts about that.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 24/06/2019 20:51:05
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "I was just reading an article on line where Declan Rowley is calling for all Leinster counties except Dublin to boycott the Leinster championship until changes are made by the top brass,
Maybe we should all join our Leinster brothers in this." link
If you think the outcrys are bad now they'll get far worse every year that goes by and Dublin have won another Leinster.
There is a huge aging Dublin support that will keep going to Dublin matches even if they are winning by 50. But they grew up in a time pre professional era when it was hard for Dublin to win and a big achievement. What about kids born after the year 2000. When we hit the year 2050 and any dub under 50 has known nothing but Dublin winning every year. The same crowds won't be attending, even though they're bad already.
If you'd a competitive situation you'd be getting a number of 80k crowds for Dublin matches. As a die hard GAA man it's sad to see the way things are going. It's like when you find out a loved one is terminally ill. They are still there but you know there's no hope.
If the GAA want to destroy football then so be it. We'll still have our club competitions in our respective counties. But I'd make a plea that they don't allow the same to happen in hurling.
I've more hope the county boards from the top 8 or 9 hurling counties would have the balls to challenge the funding when Dublin hurlers eventually rise to the top and stay there.
Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 24/06/2019 20:59:59
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Replying To cavanman47: "So Jack McCaffrey doesn't start if everyone is fit??
Right. ." James McCarthy started in midfield yesterday, not in the backs. You'd be hard pressed to drop any of those backs including Jack. They would all stroll onto any county starting 15 even though most are 30 or 31 years of age with their best years behind them. Says something about how good these lads really are though to be still at the very top after almost a decade of IC football.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 24/06/2019 21:12:04
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Replying To joeteor: "Astonishing that you believe a team that won 6 out of 8 all irelands with a player turnover of over half the team are once in a generation outfit and not indicative of a larger player advantage. Fact is Dublins seconds would be probably the second best team in the country." Astonishing that you completely misread my post and missed the point.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 24/06/2019 21:13:39
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Replying To cavanman47: "But the (and let's be honest and call it this) professional structures Dublin now have in place, fuelled by massive investment now means that the big pick is producing a conveyor belt of players to the super clubs in the county, and by extension, the senior intercounty team.
Those players weren't always brought thru before and were lost to other sports, other life choices, under-development of talent, etc. . . Now Dublin are keeping talented players in the game, giving them exposure to full-time coaches, and it is reaping huge dividend at Senior intercounty level." Can you please list the superstars on this Dublin "conveyor belt" please as I'm sure that our 30 and 31 year olds 8 or 9 of whom are still the core of this Dublin team would love to give their names to Jim so that they can have a rest?
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 24/06/2019 21:18:39
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Replying To Jack_Goff: " linkIf you think the outcrys are bad now they'll get far worse every year that goes by and Dublin have won another Leinster. There is a huge aging Dublin support that will keep going to Dublin matches even if they are winning by 50. But they grew up in a time pre professional era when it was hard for Dublin to win and a big achievement. What about kids born after the year 2000. When we hit the year 2050 and any dub under 50 has known nothing but Dublin winning every year. The same crowds won't be attending, even though they're bad already. If you'd a competitive situation you'd be getting a number of 80k crowds for Dublin matches. As a die hard GAA man it's sad to see the way things are going. It's like when you find out a loved one is terminally ill. They are still there but you know there's no hope. If the GAA want to destroy football then so be it. We'll still have our club competitions in our respective counties. But I'd make a plea that they don't allow the same to happen in hurling. I've more hope the county boards from the top 8 or 9 hurling counties would have the balls to challenge the funding when Dublin hurlers eventually rise to the top and stay there."
Im sure glad Limerick GAA dont have your attitude as You have already given up on the next 30 yrs of trophies.
Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 24/06/2019 21:22:44
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Replying To cavanman47: "But the (and let's be honest and call it this) professional structures Dublin now have in place, fuelled by massive investment now means that the big pick is producing a conveyor belt of players to the super clubs in the county, and by extension, the senior intercounty team.
Those players weren't always brought thru before and were lost to other sports, other life choices, under-development of talent, etc. . . Now Dublin are keeping talented players in the game, giving them exposure to full-time coaches, and it is reaping huge dividend at Senior intercounty level." Ok. So nothing to see here ?
let the farce continue for another 15 years ? Attendance are down year on year soon will it even be financially viable opening Croke park for the Leinster final.
bobkarlgees (Meath) - Posts: 1263 - 24/06/2019 21:26:05
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Replying To Jack_Goff: " linkIf you think the outcrys are bad now they'll get far worse every year that goes by and Dublin have won another Leinster. There is a huge aging Dublin support that will keep going to Dublin matches even if they are winning by 50. But they grew up in a time pre professional era when it was hard for Dublin to win and a big achievement. What about kids born after the year 2000. When we hit the year 2050 and any dub under 50 has known nothing but Dublin winning every year. The same crowds won't be attending, even though they're bad already. If you'd a competitive situation you'd be getting a number of 80k crowds for Dublin matches. As a die hard GAA man it's sad to see the way things are going. It's like when you find out a loved one is terminally ill. They are still there but you know there's no hope. If the GAA want to destroy football then so be it. We'll still have our club competitions in our respective counties. But I'd make a plea that they don't allow the same to happen in hurling. I've more hope the county boards from the top 8 or 9 hurling counties would have the balls to challenge the funding when Dublin hurlers eventually rise to the top and stay there."
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 24/06/2019 21:29:16
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While I think Eamon is working hard for media profile and his post is poor keeping with the ethos of the Gaa, I think Leinster does need to reflect.
Dublin are to good for Leinster now, playing the championship isn't good for anyone really in sporting terms. I'd disagree the falling attendances are particularly Leinster problem the other provinces are posting worse results.
The one thing the championship has lost is competive games, I wouldn't blame other Dubs for not going to the football provincials or those from other counties. The games are turkey shoots.
Two remedies really tiered championship, or you create hybrid provinces between Leinster and Munster and have an A and B province . Throw, Cork, Dublin, Kerry, Meath, Kildare and 2-3 rotating spots, based on the outcome of the B each year. Home and away.
People want competitive games, that's the problem, if your in the entertainment business you need to be provide entertainment. Munster and Leinster have been uncompetitive for years, I'd be very open minded on making it tougher for Dublin and Kerry in particular as their provinces give them clear advantage in my opinion.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 24/06/2019 21:37:11
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Replying To Breezy: " Replying To Jack_Goff: " linkIf you think the outcrys are bad now they'll get far worse every year that goes by and Dublin have won another Leinster. There is a huge aging Dublin support that will keep going to Dublin matches even if they are winning by 50. But they grew up in a time pre professional era when it was hard for Dublin to win and a big achievement. What about kids born after the year 2000. When we hit the year 2050 and any dub under 50 has known nothing but Dublin winning every year. The same crowds won't be attending, even though they're bad already. If you'd a competitive situation you'd be getting a number of 80k crowds for Dublin matches. As a die hard GAA man it's sad to see the way things are going. It's like when you find out a loved one is terminally ill. They are still there but you know there's no hope. If the GAA want to destroy football then so be it. We'll still have our club competitions in our respective counties. But I'd make a plea that they don't allow the same to happen in hurling. I've more hope the county boards from the top 8 or 9 hurling counties would have the balls to challenge the funding when Dublin hurlers eventually rise to the top and stay there." Difference with hurling fans as opposed to You Jack is we dont give up and cry when we go a spell without a cup. Im sure glad Limerick GAA dont have your attitude as You have already given up on the next 30 yrs of trophies."
It's a shame we don't have a sugar Daddy because the GAA don't seem too keen on getting Meath anywhere close to Dublin.
Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 24/06/2019 21:42:19
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "I was just reading an article on line where Declan Rowley is calling for all Leinster counties except Dublin to boycott the Leinster championship until changes are made by the top brass,
Maybe we should all join our Leinster brothers in this." Make sure you raise that white flag good and high me auld flower :D
realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8589 - 24/06/2019 21:45:25
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Replying To cavanman47: "But the (and let's be honest and call it this) professional structures Dublin now have in place, fuelled by massive investment now means that the big pick is producing a conveyor belt of players to the super clubs in the county, and by extension, the senior intercounty team.
Those players weren't always brought thru before and were lost to other sports, other life choices, under-development of talent, etc. . . Now Dublin are keeping talented players in the game, giving them exposure to full-time coaches, and it is reaping huge dividend at Senior intercounty level." What professional structures? Tell me because as close as I am to the camp I dont even know what this means everytime it comes up but those outside the county seem to know!! Only 2 players on the current panel came from what you would call a super club...MDMA & Cian O'S. Ballymun Kickhams have the most players on the panel right now. Hardly a superclub. Barely a clubhouse there at all like a lot of other clubs around the country. Paddy Christie was the reason those players did as well as they have done. I would be all for doing whatever needs to be done to equal the playing field by the way but across the board. Not just with Dublin. Across all provinces.
Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 24/06/2019 21:48:23
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Replying To Joxer: " Replying To Jack_Goff: " linkIf you think the outcrys are bad now they'll get far worse every year that goes by and Dublin have won another Leinster. There is a huge aging Dublin support that will keep going to Dublin matches even if they are winning by 50. But they grew up in a time pre professional era when it was hard for Dublin to win and a big achievement. What about kids born after the year 2000. When we hit the year 2050 and any dub under 50 has known nothing but Dublin winning every year. The same crowds won't be attending, even though they're bad already. If you'd a competitive situation you'd be getting a number of 80k crowds for Dublin matches. As a die hard GAA man it's sad to see the way things are going. It's like when you find out a loved one is terminally ill. They are still there but you know there's no hope. If the GAA want to destroy football then so be it. We'll still have our club competitions in our respective counties. But I'd make a plea that they don't allow the same to happen in hurling. I've more hope the county boards from the top 8 or 9 hurling counties would have the balls to challenge the funding when Dublin hurlers eventually rise to the top and stay there." Lower the bar so that other counties in Leinster don't have to bother raising their standards. Punish successful teams. TBH I'd be more in favour of throwing Meath and Kildare into Ulster to see could they hack real provincial football. After 10 years with no Ulster final they will find something else to whinge about. Dublin haven't stifled Meath's development. Meath have stifled Meath's development. How much money and how many centres of excellence does Meath require to get better? Louth gave Dublin a much better game this year yet Meath have any number of advantages over Louth. How can this be when Money + Population = Success?"
Royal.Legend (Meath) - Posts: 665 - 24/06/2019 22:25:05
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