National Forum

Proposals For 2Nd Tier Championship Pathetic

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Replying To Hawkeye9212:  "Bring the League forward and give it a lot attentio rather than making the Championship another League with 16 teams in each tier instead of 8. The Championship should have a similar format to the one which I've proposed. That would give teams at least 11 games against a mix of opponents in the best months of the year.

Or reduce the number of divisions in the League to three and run it off alongside the Provincials and All-Ireland series."
I'd just prefer the top teams to play each other more in the primary competition.

It's been great for hurling.

It's a difference of opinion no stress.

I personally prefer your system to what we have now.

It's easily understood and it could be great for weaker teams not to be playing in the qualifiers, which is itself almost considered separate to the main championship in the early rounds.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2697 - 21/09/2019 09:54:18    2238000

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The big issue is that the GAA created a task force to examine calendar/fixtures/competitions, which includes CPA, and the GAA president has pushed ahead with his own agenda, effectively making anything that task force does moot. It's a farce.

For the GPA to wait until All-Ireland Final replay day, the same day the vote was, to make any statement of opposition was very telling. They'll be on board with whatever the big boys tell them.

This Tommy Murphy 2.0 is going to be horrible for many counties. The whole thing is a farce.

Let their own task force at least examine the whole thing and make some recommendations.

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2393 - 21/09/2019 10:19:30    2238003

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How about this -
- 3 ranked divs of 11, 11 & 10.
- Each plays a single round robin (10 or 9 games).
- Top 5 in each div and 5 wild cards to 20-team One Tier KO.
- Teams are seeded 1-20 based on div ranking (e.g. div 2 Champ seeded below all (5-10) div 1 playoff teams.
- Top 12 seeds to Rd of 16; lowest 8 playoff [mostly div 3 teams; 13 hosts 20 (13h20), 14h19, 15h18 & 16h17].
- Teams continue to be reseeded each rd (so if seed 20 wins, they are away to seed 1 next - teams should strive for promotion with easier playoff schedule; tanking to an easy div 3 is counterproductive, as playoff teams face the gruelling prospect of beating strongest seeds on the hop to win the AI).
- 3 up/ 3 down between divs.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1621 - 11/10/2019 03:15:01    2242712

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Or -
- NW Conference of 16 (Uls, Conn, Lond, Louth) in 4 ranked divs of 4.
- SE Conf of 16 (the Rest), also 4x4.
- Teams play 10 games within div - Own Conf twice, Other Conf once.
- 8 div winners and 12 wild cards to 20-team KO.
- Reseeding after each rd.
- 1 up / 1 down between the 8 divs.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1621 - 11/10/2019 03:36:36    2242713

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Saw a post on Instagram today reminding of how Derry hurlers put Offaly to the pin of their collar in 2000.
Cant see Derry being to do that now to an All Ireland contender in hurling.
The tiered structure in my opinion has seen hurling in counties regress.
Football needs to thread carefully with this.

RoyalBadger (Meath) - Posts: 567 - 11/10/2019 13:14:22    2242805

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There's also an article on the42 today which has an interview with the Samoan captain. Saw this line in it:
"The term 'Tier 2′ is part of the issue here and rugby surely needs to banish the phrase from its vocabulary, highlighting as it does the distinction between rugby's richest nations and those who simply don't get a fair crack of the whip."

And here we are......

Greenfield (Meath) - Posts: 375 - 11/10/2019 14:40:18    2242825

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Replying To RoyalBadger:  "Saw a post on Instagram today reminding of how Derry hurlers put Offaly to the pin of their collar in 2000.
Cant see Derry being to do that now to an All Ireland contender in hurling.
The tiered structure in my opinion has seen hurling in counties regress.
Football needs to thread carefully with this."
Absolutely 100%

It's made hurling a complete afterthought in Ulster.

Losing the Ulster championship hurt also up here, to those that want the Provinces removed also.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2697 - 11/10/2019 15:37:03    2242837

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Replying To Greenfield:  "There's also an article on the42 today which has an interview with the Samoan captain. Saw this line in it:
"The term 'Tier 2′ is part of the issue here and rugby surely needs to banish the phrase from its vocabulary, highlighting as it does the distinction between rugby's richest nations and those who simply don't get a fair crack of the whip."

And here we are......"
Very different situation. Rugby like cricket has a their 2 that is based on a vote from their 1 and locked off from promotion through on field exploits which is not in any of the proposas I have seen for football

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 294 - 11/10/2019 17:33:54    2242861

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simple and easy give winners of 2nd tiered compettion a super 8 path this is how it would work . 2nd tiered winners would join the other teams in the super 8

lor12 (Wicklow) - Posts: 152 - 11/10/2019 17:37:10    2242863

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Replying To RoyalBadger:  "Saw a post on Instagram today reminding of how Derry hurlers put Offaly to the pin of their collar in 2000.
Cant see Derry being to do that now to an All Ireland contender in hurling.
The tiered structure in my opinion has seen hurling in counties regress.
Football needs to thread carefully with this."
Wait I'm sorry but is this the Derry that have only won 4 Ulster championships in a Provence that Never won Liam and was suspended between 1947 to 1988.

Come on now please stop blaming the recent introduction of tiers for this.

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 294 - 11/10/2019 17:41:08    2242864

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Please Pleasse someone tell me what if anything is wrong with this proposal?

Right starting off the national football league in 2 nd week of january. Obyrne cup/fbd etc are either got rid of or played as knockout games in novemeber for managers to test players. i would like to see december as a pure rest month for inter county.

League as states starts in 2nd week of January, finals played last sunday in March. if needs be still April free for clubs or if not then scrap that and start Provincial champonships late April say last sunday in April. Rounds are played every week therafter and Friday evenings are used say for Offaly v Laois or Meath v Kildare in home or away venue. eveings will be bright til 9;30 that time of year so 7:30 kick off if wanted. All provincial finals could be played either May bank holiday weekend or 2 nd week in May at latest.

Now this is what keeps the provincial championships relevant because were stuck with them. the draws will matter big time. The provincial finalists are seeded in Sam Maguire cup draws. which brings to the SAM Maguire cup. All 32 counties go into a draw for groups of 4 into 8 groups. the 8 provincial finalists are seeded. that means getting to your provincial final is a huge carrot.

this year you would have seeded teams , Kerry, Cork, Dublin,Meath,Donegal,Cavan, Galway and Rosscommon. they cant meet in draw everyone else is open draw. One home game , one away game and one in neutral venue or croker. top 2 into last 16 of Sam bottom 2 into tier 2 cup. both finals played same weekend. pure knock out football from the last 16

dickie10 (UK) - Posts: 484 - 11/10/2019 19:59:00    2242882

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Replying To dickie10:  "Please Pleasse someone tell me what if anything is wrong with this proposal?

Right starting off the national football league in 2 nd week of january. Obyrne cup/fbd etc are either got rid of or played as knockout games in novemeber for managers to test players. i would like to see december as a pure rest month for inter county.

League as states starts in 2nd week of January, finals played last sunday in March. if needs be still April free for clubs or if not then scrap that and start Provincial champonships late April say last sunday in April. Rounds are played every week therafter and Friday evenings are used say for Offaly v Laois or Meath v Kildare in home or away venue. eveings will be bright til 9;30 that time of year so 7:30 kick off if wanted. All provincial finals could be played either May bank holiday weekend or 2 nd week in May at latest.

Now this is what keeps the provincial championships relevant because were stuck with them. the draws will matter big time. The provincial finalists are seeded in Sam Maguire cup draws. which brings to the SAM Maguire cup. All 32 counties go into a draw for groups of 4 into 8 groups. the 8 provincial finalists are seeded. that means getting to your provincial final is a huge carrot.

this year you would have seeded teams , Kerry, Cork, Dublin,Meath,Donegal,Cavan, Galway and Rosscommon. they cant meet in draw everyone else is open draw. One home game , one away game and one in neutral venue or croker. top 2 into last 16 of Sam bottom 2 into tier 2 cup. both finals played same weekend. pure knock out football from the last 16"
No one will care about tier 2 once eliminated same as Tommy Murphy and it doesn't make the provincials more important than they are now. If you can't give the provincials ado or die relevance again the way the hurling did there is no point having them. Your proposal is essentially a 32 county super 8s

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 294 - 11/10/2019 20:42:44    2242897

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Replying To Breezy:  "Very different situation. Rugby like cricket has a their 2 that is based on a vote from their 1 and locked off from promotion through on field exploits which is not in any of the proposas I have seen for football"
Similar to how Kerry aren't allowed play in the Munster shc?
My point was more that this won't be so much a tier 2 competition but there will be counties who will be regarded as tier 2 counties and left there to rot.
Having watched Meath in division 2 for 10 or so years, it got boring watching the same teams as they yo-yo between the tiers. That's what we'll see in this. It will do nothing to help the weaker counties improve.

Greenfield (Meath) - Posts: 375 - 11/10/2019 21:34:02    2242912

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Replying To lor12:  "simple and easy give winners of 2nd tiered compettion a super 8 path this is how it would work . 2nd tiered winners would join the other teams in the super 8"
Yes - Tier 2 Champ parachuted (or is it, rocket fired) into the business end of Tier 1 would juice it up.
Although, I prefer Super 12 - 4 groups of 3 - to KO QFs, or straight to SFs.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 1621 - 11/10/2019 23:07:08    2242929

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Replying To Greenfield:  "Similar to how Kerry aren't allowed play in the Munster shc?
My point was more that this won't be so much a tier 2 competition but there will be counties who will be regarded as tier 2 counties and left there to rot.
Having watched Meath in division 2 for 10 or so years, it got boring watching the same teams as they yo-yo between the tiers. That's what we'll see in this. It will do nothing to help the weaker counties improve."
Kerry are 100% allowed play in the MSHC its called a promotion which was exactly my point. They dont play at some underage grades out of their own choice and in hurling I have seen alot more news and results on the likes of Meath, Sligo, Warwickshire etc. since the teirs came in it hasnt made them world beaters and never will but at least people outside the diehards are now aware they even exist as teams

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 294 - 12/10/2019 13:03:36    2242977

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Replying To Breezy:  "Kerry are 100% allowed play in the MSHC its called a promotion which was exactly my point. They dont play at some underage grades out of their own choice and in hurling I have seen alot more news and results on the likes of Meath, Sligo, Warwickshire etc. since the teirs came in it hasnt made them world beaters and never will but at least people outside the diehards are now aware they even exist as teams"
There are problems with the hurling tiering though.

It's more difficult for Kerry to be promoted with it not being guaranteed to only them if they win the Joe McDonagh.

Having only 1 team out of the developing group playing against the top teams makes it difficult for the likes of Carlow to retain their spot and build at the higher level over multiple seasons.

There are too many tiers, using 5 levels to divide 35 teams is a bit much.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2697 - 12/10/2019 14:46:12    2242995

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The CPA & GPA/Inter County players are going to learn who the real power brokers are in the GAA. Congress will not vote against a Presedential proposal, this is all about power & ego. Most common sense people would see fit to allow the fixtures task force finish & produce their report, but no Tier 2 proposal ploughs on. The disdain shown to these task forces, shows that they are just smokescreens to appease the CPA & Clubs, to appear to have some interest in looking after grassroots. The reality is that just like the introduction of Super 8's, Tier 2 is about weeding out the chaff, to allow more Top Tier/Elite teams play each other more often as the TV companies want, meaning more lolly in TV rights. Present leadership within the GAA currently & previous incumbents have been really poor, there are probably more revelations around the corner for those in Croke Park over the whole mess in Galway GAA & the intentional cover up of same. An Association is only as succesful as its transparency & honesty in all matters, those in the FAI who thought they were untouchable learnt the hard way, how long before the knock comes to the door in the GAA.

moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 853 - 12/10/2019 15:13:44    2243001

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Replying To moc.dna:  "The CPA & GPA/Inter County players are going to learn who the real power brokers are in the GAA. Congress will not vote against a Presedential proposal, this is all about power & ego. Most common sense people would see fit to allow the fixtures task force finish & produce their report, but no Tier 2 proposal ploughs on. The disdain shown to these task forces, shows that they are just smokescreens to appease the CPA & Clubs, to appear to have some interest in looking after grassroots. The reality is that just like the introduction of Super 8's, Tier 2 is about weeding out the chaff, to allow more Top Tier/Elite teams play each other more often as the TV companies want, meaning more lolly in TV rights. Present leadership within the GAA currently & previous incumbents have been really poor, there are probably more revelations around the corner for those in Croke Park over the whole mess in Galway GAA & the intentional cover up of same. An Association is only as succesful as its transparency & honesty in all matters, those in the FAI who thought they were untouchable learnt the hard way, how long before the knock comes to the door in the GAA."
It's important the GAA keep it's doors open to ex pats and those who want to promote our games overseas. However the system is a concern and in my opinion international GAA bodies are used in the same way the FAI used junior clubs/delegates in Irish soccer. These bodies have a lot more to gain and can benefit significantly from going along with the party line. If these proposals were left to the 32 participating counties in the football championship they'd get nowhere near a majority - the majority of counties would vote to wait until the fixture body finish it's work.

Your post is correct - the GAA is set up to ensure it's top brass get what they want - in this case they want to weed out medium/weaker counties to leave the top teams in a well marketed, highly lucative Championship which they can bring to media companies and big business.

The end result over the next ten years will be a class system amongst the footballing championship with very little chance of counties catching up or as in the Rugby 6 nations little chance of counties falling which will help them sign long term sponsorship deals.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 498 - 12/10/2019 17:47:31    2243010

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The GAA presidency should be for one year and should rotate through all the counties, including NY and Warwickshire. The current president has been very poor in my opinion in media performances and this tier 2 football competition will be his legacy. A dumping of counties out of the all Ireland

kick_it (Leitrim) - Posts: 15 - 14/10/2019 09:51:23    2243295

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