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Dublin's Success Not Down To Money - GAA President

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Dublin fans really missing the point here. No ones actually criticising Dublin GAA. The problem is the decision of the GAA at the top, so by extension the criticism is off all county board representatives at the top level who have been complicit in this.

I would be highly critical of my own county board for a variety of reasons.

For obvious reasons those at the top believed if they invested in Dublin the would make a good return. That was true to begin with but not anymore. They didn't contemplate the idea that they might create a monster and that's what has transpired. Now attendances are plummeting, and it isn't just Dublin's Leinster rivals who have stopped going. Dublin's number of supporters attending matches is dropping too. According to Éamonn Sweeney in today's Independent the drop in the Leinster championship since to 2008 is 73 per cent. https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/eamonn-sweeney-were-on-footballs-highway-to-hell-38222403.html

It's a sad state of affairs.

HighKings (Meath) - Posts: 112 - 16/06/2019 15:26:56    2195777

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "link

True. But also the included prophetic article from Peter Sweeney from more than three years ago.

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The GAA want not just Dublin but all of the top counties remaining strong while they plough ahead with plans for a tiered championship to improve the top standard and increase the gap to so-called weaker counties by providing them with more 'competitive' games. Such condescending rubbish. Competitive at a very poor level because the GAA have no interest in putting funds in there in the so-called weaker counties or change structures so that those counties get some meaningful games versus teams of a higher standard. The top tier of ten or 12 elite counties playing a championship. Local rivalries that stir the soul, even Division 3 v Division 1 and the chance of an upset all gone. In effect the death of the real soul of the All Ireland Football Championship. I think it's because accountants run the GAA at the top level and they think keeping the rich richer will keep the GAA strong. They look on it as a product but the GAA are games played by ladies and gentlemen who love their Jersey and play with heart and commitment and not by suits with calculators."
I wouldn't necessarily agree with the premise here, I think the end game is to go down the hurling model for the GAA if I'm honest.

To be fair to the GAA though they pump significant funds into counties like Leitrim and Monaghan to try and bridge the gap between population and competitiveness.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 2325 - 16/06/2019 16:03:25    2195801

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Replying To Greengrass:  "The point is being made on a regular basis . Thirteen times the money to a county with three times the population. That's what is happening in relation to Dublin and Cork .That's also why I said redistributing the money on the basis of the number of clubs would be unfair to Dublin . They have clubs that cater for very large populations. What is clear is that there needs to be a redistribution of the money on a fair and sustainable basis . The Leinster championship has been ripped from football fans . Nobody wants the All Ireland to go the same way ."
It's a circular point I think, as no one knows the exact formula we can both give examples to improve our opinions, like population to registered players, Crok are far superior to Dublin thus a need for GDF., or funding for PUC etc. But to be honest I'm beyond the binary right or wrong thing st this stage, as I have looked into it with an open mind and came to my own opinion. I'm not partiricarly trying to win hearts and minds.

I'm just concerned with the issues really and the model and volunteerism, aspect in the article caught my eye. I was curious really as to what from our model point of view could be adopted to help and what are the obstacles of rolling it out. I know it's like for like, is scale of geopraphy, but I don't think the obstacles with an open mind can't be addressed.

Any way you want to spin it, Dublin clubs are self funding their GDO to the tune of 50% away from any GAA revenue.

There seems resistance to this elsewhere, it's curious.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 2325 - 16/06/2019 16:13:41    2195807

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It sure is terrible to see some Dubs on here talk so negatively about their hurlers.

Another question is what do they have to do with funding for the footballers?

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 16 - 16/06/2019 16:25:55    2195814

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Replying To TheUsername:  "
Replying To GreenandRed:  "link

True. But also the included prophetic article from Peter Sweeney from more than three years ago.

link

The GAA want not just Dublin but all of the top counties remaining strong while they plough ahead with plans for a tiered championship to improve the top standard and increase the gap to so-called weaker counties by providing them with more 'competitive' games. Such condescending rubbish. Competitive at a very poor level because the GAA have no interest in putting funds in there in the so-called weaker counties or change structures so that those counties get some meaningful games versus teams of a higher standard. The top tier of ten or 12 elite counties playing a championship. Local rivalries that stir the soul, even Division 3 v Division 1 and the chance of an upset all gone. In effect the death of the real soul of the All Ireland Football Championship. I think it's because accountants run the GAA at the top level and they think keeping the rich richer will keep the GAA strong. They look on it as a product but the GAA are games played by ladies and gentlemen who love their Jersey and play with heart and commitment and not by suits with calculators."
I wouldn't necessarily agree with the premise here, I think the end game is to go down the hurling model for the GAA if I'm honest.

To be fair to the GAA though they pump significant funds into counties like Leitrim and Monaghan to try and bridge the gap between population and competitiveness."
Do they? How effective has those 'significant' funds been?

How has the hurling model reduced the standards gap between the top counties and so-called weaker counties when so-called weaker counties don't play counties of a higher standard?

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 5157 - 16/06/2019 16:31:59    2195820

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "
Replying To TheUsername:  "[quote=GreenandRed:  "link

True. But also the included prophetic article from Peter Sweeney from more than three years ago.

link

The GAA want not just Dublin but all of the top counties remaining strong while they plough ahead with plans for a tiered championship to improve the top standard and increase the gap to so-called weaker counties by providing them with more 'competitive' games. Such condescending rubbish. Competitive at a very poor level because the GAA have no interest in putting funds in there in the so-called weaker counties or change structures so that those counties get some meaningful games versus teams of a higher standard. The top tier of ten or 12 elite counties playing a championship. Local rivalries that stir the soul, even Division 3 v Division 1 and the chance of an upset all gone. In effect the death of the real soul of the All Ireland Football Championship. I think it's because accountants run the GAA at the top level and they think keeping the rich richer will keep the GAA strong. They look on it as a product but the GAA are games played by ladies and gentlemen who love their Jersey and play with heart and commitment and not by suits with calculators."
I wouldn't necessarily agree with the premise here, I think the end game is to go down the hurling model for the GAA if I'm honest.

To be fair to the GAA though they pump significant funds into counties like Leitrim and Monaghan to try and bridge the gap between population and competitiveness."
Do they? How effective has those 'significant' funds been?

How has the hurling model reduced the standards gap between the top counties and so-called weaker counties when so-called weaker counties don't play counties of a higher standard?"]They have the highest ratios of funding per head of populatition, I'd give my the GAA credit for that myself. For Monaghan I'd say they haven't been unhelpful.

I didn't say I was advocate for a hurling model championship, I said I believed that's what the GAA's end game was.

I would be an advocate of doing away the provincials myself, I haven't decided yet what I'd like to do ideally beyond that structure wise, I varied on both sides if I'm being honest, but haven't worked out a definitive preference.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 2325 - 16/06/2019 16:47:32    2195828

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Replying To TheUsername:  "
Replying To GreenandRed:  "[quote=TheUsername:  "[quote=GreenandRed:  "link

True. But also the included prophetic article from Peter Sweeney from more than three years ago.

link

The GAA want not just Dublin but all of the top counties remaining strong while they plough ahead with plans for a tiered championship to improve the top standard and increase the gap to so-called weaker counties by providing them with more 'competitive' games. Such condescending rubbish. Competitive at a very poor level because the GAA have no interest in putting funds in there in the so-called weaker counties or change structures so that those counties get some meaningful games versus teams of a higher standard. The top tier of ten or 12 elite counties playing a championship. Local rivalries that stir the soul, even Division 3 v Division 1 and the chance of an upset all gone. In effect the death of the real soul of the All Ireland Football Championship. I think it's because accountants run the GAA at the top level and they think keeping the rich richer will keep the GAA strong. They look on it as a product but the GAA are games played by ladies and gentlemen who love their Jersey and play with heart and commitment and not by suits with calculators."
I wouldn't necessarily agree with the premise here, I think the end game is to go down the hurling model for the GAA if I'm honest.

To be fair to the GAA though they pump significant funds into counties like Leitrim and Monaghan to try and bridge the gap between population and competitiveness."
Do they? How effective has those 'significant' funds been?

How has the hurling model reduced the standards gap between the top counties and so-called weaker counties when so-called weaker counties don't play counties of a higher standard?"]They have the highest ratios of funding per head of populatition, I'd give my the GAA credit for that myself. For Monaghan I'd say they haven't been unhelpful.

I didn't say I was advocate for a hurling model championship, I said I believed that's what the GAA's end game was.

I would be an advocate of doing away the provincials myself, I haven't decided yet what I'd like to do ideally beyond that structure wise, I varied on both sides if I'm being honest, but haven't worked out a definitive preference."]Monaghan are very efficient when it comes to generating income Username . The latest figures I have relate to 2017 . They generated €660,000 compared to Louth who generated €220,000. Monaghan utilise their resources very well . I wouldn't do away with the provincial championships. Local rivalries, the chance of an upset and the chance of progress would all be lost . Look at what it meant to Armagh and Cavan last week . Look at Galway and Roscommon right now .

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 4957 - 16/06/2019 17:05:31    2195839

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39,000 at what was effectively a dead rubber in thurles today and it wasn't a double header either. Dublin are no longer the GAA's cash cow. Maybe now the GAA realise they don't need Dublin winning and it's better for them if they don't. I bet they won't publicly say this unlike 15 years ago when they said they needed a strong Dublin.

Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2385 - 16/06/2019 17:15:02    2195846

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Replying To Jack_Goff:  "39,000 at what was effectively a dead rubber in thurles today and it wasn't a double header either. Dublin are no longer the GAA's cash cow. Maybe now the GAA realise they don't need Dublin winning and it's better for them if they don't. I bet they won't publicly say this unlike 15 years ago when they said they needed a strong Dublin."
Still talking about Dublin hahaha

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 19089 - 16/06/2019 17:43:47    2195864

Link

Replying To Greengrass:  "
Replying To TheUsername:  "[quote=GreenandRed:  "[quote=TheUsername:  "[quote=GreenandRed:  "link

True. But also the included prophetic article from Peter Sweeney from more than three years ago.

link

The GAA want not just Dublin but all of the top counties remaining strong while they plough ahead with plans for a tiered championship to improve the top standard and increase the gap to so-called weaker counties by providing them with more 'competitive' games. Such condescending rubbish. Competitive at a very poor level because the GAA have no interest in putting funds in there in the so-called weaker counties or change structures so that those counties get some meaningful games versus teams of a higher standard. The top tier of ten or 12 elite counties playing a championship. Local rivalries that stir the soul, even Division 3 v Division 1 and the chance of an upset all gone. In effect the death of the real soul of the All Ireland Football Championship. I think it's because accountants run the GAA at the top level and they think keeping the rich richer will keep the GAA strong. They look on it as a product but the GAA are games played by ladies and gentlemen who love their Jersey and play with heart and commitment and not by suits with calculators."
I wouldn't necessarily agree with the premise here, I think the end game is to go down the hurling model for the GAA if I'm honest.

To be fair to the GAA though they pump significant funds into counties like Leitrim and Monaghan to try and bridge the gap between population and competitiveness."
Do they? How effective has those 'significant' funds been?

How has the hurling model reduced the standards gap between the top counties and so-called weaker counties when so-called weaker counties don't play counties of a higher standard?"]They have the highest ratios of funding per head of populatition, I'd give my the GAA credit for that myself. For Monaghan I'd say they haven't been unhelpful.

I didn't say I was advocate for a hurling model championship, I said I believed that's what the GAA's end game was.

I would be an advocate of doing away the provincials myself, I haven't decided yet what I'd like to do ideally beyond that structure wise, I varied on both sides if I'm being honest, but haven't worked out a definitive preference."]Monaghan are very efficient when it comes to generating income Username . The latest figures I have relate to 2017 . They generated €660,000 compared to Louth who generated €220,000. Monaghan utilise their resources very well . I wouldn't do away with the provincial championships. Local rivalries, the chance of an upset and the chance of progress would all be lost . Look at what it meant to Armagh and Cavan last week . Look at Galway and Roscommon right now ."]Did they a Chara, that commercial revenue I Presum. That's impressive. I would have thought Louth would have had a big pull, with the big towns, surprised by that.

I take your point, I'm a reluctant advocate of looseing the provincials. I take your point here watching the sciences in Salthill, it's a terrific a hivement, but I just feel the sweat of that achievement is unfair ultimately. Dublin and Kerry will do the same thing without breaking a sweatband milling through 6 other intercounty teams.

On one hand I feel the structure is unfair with massive counties getting an easy ride through the provinces, that undermines the achievement of Connacht and Ulster and Dublin and Kerry go in fresher to the S8.

Secondly I think it's unfair on Div3/4 teams and fans being exposed to double digit losses annually, it's like a nuclear bomb being dropped it just Kells everything. There's just no winner. I think it's possible to include Div 3&4 in the Championship and doing away with provincials.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 2325 - 16/06/2019 18:01:05    2195892

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Replying To Jack_Goff:  "39,000 at what was effectively a dead rubber in thurles today and it wasn't a double header either. Dublin are no longer the GAA's cash cow. Maybe now the GAA realise they don't need Dublin winning and it's better for them if they don't. I bet they won't publicly say this unlike 15 years ago when they said they needed a strong Dublin."
Sell out in the Neller last night and two weeks ago. Add that to the football and I would strongly back our pulling power even before the Leinster final in played. I'm afraid we will be making a significant contribution to the coffers still, such as they will be.

The entire total attendance of the Munster football championship has been less then the double header in Portlaoise at 14k so far.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 2325 - 16/06/2019 18:06:24    2195899

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Sources Jack? :)

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 19089 - 16/06/2019 18:14:49    2195909

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Replying To jimbodub:  "Still talking about Dublin hahaha"
That's what this topic is about? Why don't you write another pointless essay?

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 16 - 16/06/2019 18:27:11    2195927

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Replying To Jack_Goff:  "39,000 at what was effectively a dead rubber in thurles today and it wasn't a double header either. Dublin are no longer the GAA's cash cow. Maybe now the GAA realise they don't need Dublin winning and it's better for them if they don't. I bet they won't publicly say this unlike 15 years ago when they said they needed a strong Dublin."
39,000 at the limerick v Clare game the week before as well jack.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 8812 - 16/06/2019 19:43:22    2195991

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Seeing that we have plenty copy and pasting themselves, might as well chip in...

2010 lost to Cork, Meath (hammered by Meath)

2011 won Sam by 1pt a game Dublin could have easily lost and took an epic come back against the odds to turn the tide against an aging Kerry side, also could have easily lost semifinal to Donegal.

2012 soundly beaten by Mayo, struggled badly across the year in both league and championship. A poor year and Gilroy resigns. Both Mayo and Donegal (great side in 2012) better teams compared to Dublin.

2013 won Sam by the slimmest margin could have easily lost both semifinal and final. Semifinal being one of the greatest games of football seen in many decades.

2014 soundly beaten by Donegal in fact were very much embarrassed on the day, a massive amount of slagging came Dublin's way.

2015 brought to replay, could/should have lost against Mayo, won Sam by a score after a poor Kerry performance

2016 epic semifinal win, could have easily lost. brought to replay by Mayo, epic finals that Dublin could/should have lost to Mayo

2017 epic final could have easily lost to Mayo

2018 Dublin's first and only handy enough Sam win this decade, a poor enough championship.

***2016/2017 hugely costly missed free kicks by Mayo

***Dublin have won two finals with late frees

The actual games themselves demonstrate that there's almost a collective amnesia to just how competitive it's been across this decade and that there's a strange mass cult of self pity that's descended despite the ultimate competitive nature of football seen across this decade.

It's as if Dublin are an unstoppable machine when they are anything but.. it's taken massive endeavor and really Dublin shouldn't be going for 5 in a row, they simply shouldn't.

I've been at 90% of these games. I've stood there thinking.. "feck it.. we've lost this"

It's your own fault for not putting Dublin to the sword.

It's undeniably fact that for all the invincible hype nonsense, that Dublin have been there for the taking on many occasions across this decade.

Some teams have put Dublin on their collective areses while others have failed to take the opportunity

The collection of Sams simply does not tell the full true story and this aura of invincibility for me is a form of mass hysteria based around a hard time for rural Ireland , it's a projection of frustration and directed at Dublin.

Look at the games. That's where the facts lie. It's been very competitive and just because your own may not be competing that's really your own problem. Plenty of other counties have stood up and beaten/challenged and unfortunately for them blew massive opportunities

Look at the games.. there's no way Dublin should be going for 5 in the bounce

But here we are..

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 19089 - 16/06/2019 20:46:52    2196035

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Yiz can say what you want

I've witnessed it first hand

It's all there in black and white

The rest yiz are spouting is hyperbole

Hugely competitive with some absolute brilliant games that will be long remembered

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 19089 - 16/06/2019 21:37:18    2196072

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Replying To jimbodub:  "Seeing that we have plenty copy and pasting themselves, might as well chip in...

2010 lost to Cork, Meath (hammered by Meath)

2011 won Sam by 1pt a game Dublin could have easily lost and took an epic come back against the odds to turn the tide against an aging Kerry side, also could have easily lost semifinal to Donegal.

2012 soundly beaten by Mayo, struggled badly across the year in both league and championship. A poor year and Gilroy resigns. Both Mayo and Donegal (great side in 2012) better teams compared to Dublin.

2013 won Sam by the slimmest margin could have easily lost both semifinal and final. Semifinal being one of the greatest games of football seen in many decades.

2014 soundly beaten by Donegal in fact were very much embarrassed on the day, a massive amount of slagging came Dublin's way.

2015 brought to replay, could/should have lost against Mayo, won Sam by a score after a poor Kerry performance

2016 epic semifinal win, could have easily lost. brought to replay by Mayo, epic finals that Dublin could/should have lost to Mayo

2017 epic final could have easily lost to Mayo

2018 Dublin's first and only handy enough Sam win this decade, a poor enough championship.

***2016/2017 hugely costly missed free kicks by Mayo

***Dublin have won two finals with late frees

The actual games themselves demonstrate that there's almost a collective amnesia to just how competitive it's been across this decade and that there's a strange mass cult of self pity that's descended despite the ultimate competitive nature of football seen across this decade.

It's as if Dublin are an unstoppable machine when they are anything but.. it's taken massive endeavor and really Dublin shouldn't be going for 5 in a row, they simply shouldn't.

I've been at 90% of these games. I've stood there thinking.. "feck it.. we've lost this"

It's your own fault for not putting Dublin to the sword.

It's undeniably fact that for all the invincible hype nonsense, that Dublin have been there for the taking on many occasions across this decade.

Some teams have put Dublin on their collective areses while others have failed to take the opportunity

The collection of Sams simply does not tell the full true story and this aura of invincibility for me is a form of mass hysteria based around a hard time for rural Ireland , it's a projection of frustration and directed at Dublin.

Look at the games. That's where the facts lie. It's been very competitive and just because your own may not be competing that's really your own problem. Plenty of other counties have stood up and beaten/challenged and unfortunately for them blew massive opportunities

Look at the games.. there's no way Dublin should be going for 5 in the bounce

But here we are.."
"there's no way Dublin should be going for 5 in the bounce But here we are.."

But they are so what's your point?

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 16 - 16/06/2019 21:54:06    2196080

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