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2019 Division 1 League Final.

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Replying To gallarus14:  "You also forgot to mention tomás O'Sé graham O'Sullivan Conor Geaney Killian Spillane and Gavin O'Brien ."
@Username I think it's fair to say 2018 was the real year of change, seven of that team v kildare were in their debut seasons so using 2018 vs now as a yardstick to measure the evolution of the team is a bit disingenuous. One season of IC experience is nothing. The 2017 semi with Mayo would be a much fairer comparison.

I can't recall any team turning over so many of their first team in such a short timeframe. I'd view Peter Keanes job as a minimum two to three year project to knit all this together. This summer I expect at a minimum Ryan, Foley, O'Sullivan, G. Crowley, White, Barry, Moynihan, OShea and Clifford to start, that's nine players and none have more than two years experience at this level with others like Burns and O'Brien very much in contention. Without doing detailed research I think only Crowley would be over 22. If that is not a 'new young team' I really can't imagine what would qualify.

No other team is trying to work with so little experience and yes I believe it's vital to have at least a few veterans in there like a Geaney, Moran and Murphy. It is easier to integrate young players when you have mostly experienced players around them but we don't have that luxury. I doubt it will be a recipe for success in 2019 but I believe this Kerry side will have a breakout season in the coming years, especially if Peter Keane can put a midfield together.

I take your point that Mayo's youngsters looked better than Kerry's at the weekend but I believe several of the lads you mentioned won an U21 with Mayo in 2016 when many of our lads were still minors, so I'd guess they are 23-24 so a bit ahead of Kerry's crop and surrounded by brilliant veterans like Keegan and O'Shea. That's not a sleight on mayos lads in any way, all I am saying is that Kerry need time to grow as a team. The media seem desperate to build up the next challenger to Dublin and stoke the Kerry V Dublin narrative, we saw this in 2018 and 2017 as well. I'm not buying it just yet but I am upbeat about Kerry's prospects in the medium to long term. Perhaps it's blind optimism, we'll see eventually I guess.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1568 - 02/04/2019 23:08:55    2177403

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Replying To Pericles:  "Gerry, I don't think Mayo will get all that carried away with Sunday. You're right in what you say, PK tried maybe a few too many of the new lads and they couldn't assert themselves in getting the possession necessary to keep the pressure off your defence. The game was enjoyable but both sides were guilty of being sloppy and wasteful, so lots of scope for improvement. Kerry are missing the likes of Donnacha Walsh and players like Donnacha tend to be undervalued until they're no longer there to win dirty ball and link everything up. It takes time to find and develop these types of players, but Kerry have good coaches and time is not an enemy given the age profile. We're all still hanging into the coat tails of the Dubs and the 5 in a row won't have been rocked by the weekend 's proceedings.All both sides can do is look to narrow the gap in company with Galway, Tyrone, Monaghan, Donegal and Meath, whose return to division 1 will hopefully breath life back into a great rivalry."
You'd hope Horan and his players won't get carried away anyway despite Horan Ill advised 10 point comment. There has been a lot of commentary since Sunday talking them up, not all coming from mayo I might add. I hope ye've a good summer and reach the holy grail but there is a mammoth task ahead and no time for resting on laurels.

You are right in that Kerry are missing the Donnachadh / Galvin type, I have been saying this for over a year now. Along with midfield it could take 2-3 years to sort it out fully but I believe we will eventually.

We seemed to change tactics at the half Sunday as wel, when JOD came in it threw our defensive shape as Moynihan had been doing a lot of tracking back and we also tried collectively to push up on mayo leaving gaping holes all over the place, this in spite of playing quite well with a deeper setup in the first half. The move made no sense. At the risk of sounding like I am making excuses I wonder was Keane trying something or seeing what certain lads were made of? Immaterial now of course but it was curious from a Kerry POV.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1568 - 03/04/2019 00:03:19    2177416

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "@Username I think it's fair to say 2018 was the real year of change, seven of that team v kildare were in their debut seasons so using 2018 vs now as a yardstick to measure the evolution of the team is a bit disingenuous. One season of IC experience is nothing. The 2017 semi with Mayo would be a much fairer comparison.

I can't recall any team turning over so many of their first team in such a short timeframe. I'd view Peter Keanes job as a minimum two to three year project to knit all this together. This summer I expect at a minimum Ryan, Foley, O'Sullivan, G. Crowley, White, Barry, Moynihan, OShea and Clifford to start, that's nine players and none have more than two years experience at this level with others like Burns and O'Brien very much in contention. Without doing detailed research I think only Crowley would be over 22. If that is not a 'new young team' I really can't imagine what would qualify.

No other team is trying to work with so little experience and yes I believe it's vital to have at least a few veterans in there like a Geaney, Moran and Murphy. It is easier to integrate young players when you have mostly experienced players around them but we don't have that luxury. I doubt it will be a recipe for success in 2019 but I believe this Kerry side will have a breakout season in the coming years, especially if Peter Keane can put a midfield together.

I take your point that Mayo's youngsters looked better than Kerry's at the weekend but I believe several of the lads you mentioned won an U21 with Mayo in 2016 when many of our lads were still minors, so I'd guess they are 23-24 so a bit ahead of Kerry's crop and surrounded by brilliant veterans like Keegan and O'Shea. That's not a sleight on mayos lads in any way, all I am saying is that Kerry need time to grow as a team. The media seem desperate to build up the next challenger to Dublin and stoke the Kerry V Dublin narrative, we saw this in 2018 and 2017 as well. I'm not buying it just yet but I am upbeat about Kerry's prospects in the medium to long term. Perhaps it's blind optimism, we'll see eventually I guess."
Good post as always Gerry I'd accept and be open minded on your likely better knowledge of it down the South West.

What would be an interesting insight would be the average age of say the Super 8 panels. I have no idea personally but I think there would be a few eye brows raised.

Seems like so many counties are bringing through an awful lot of good young players, it's great to see.

It's going to fascinating the different cocktails that leads to this year and the years just ahead, as you say Kerry's may be a total reboot, others like Mayo and Tyrone are adding good underage success to All Ireland final stalwart squads. Galway have layers and generations of successful underage squads to be added to a really talented bunch. We tend to be no slouches ourselves picking up the odd gem from quite a big pick, even if this year we've just picked up one genuine contender.

I can't remember a time when the vast majority of counties seem to be bringing through so many talented young players all at the same time. Maybe it's the way of it.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 2805 - 03/04/2019 00:10:16    2177418

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "@Username I think it's fair to say 2018 was the real year of change, seven of that team v kildare were in their debut seasons so using 2018 vs now as a yardstick to measure the evolution of the team is a bit disingenuous. One season of IC experience is nothing. The 2017 semi with Mayo would be a much fairer comparison.

I can't recall any team turning over so many of their first team in such a short timeframe. I'd view Peter Keanes job as a minimum two to three year project to knit all this together. This summer I expect at a minimum Ryan, Foley, O'Sullivan, G. Crowley, White, Barry, Moynihan, OShea and Clifford to start, that's nine players and none have more than two years experience at this level with others like Burns and O'Brien very much in contention. Without doing detailed research I think only Crowley would be over 22. If that is not a 'new young team' I really can't imagine what would qualify.

No other team is trying to work with so little experience and yes I believe it's vital to have at least a few veterans in there like a Geaney, Moran and Murphy. It is easier to integrate young players when you have mostly experienced players around them but we don't have that luxury. I doubt it will be a recipe for success in 2019 but I believe this Kerry side will have a breakout season in the coming years, especially if Peter Keane can put a midfield together.

I take your point that Mayo's youngsters looked better than Kerry's at the weekend but I believe several of the lads you mentioned won an U21 with Mayo in 2016 when many of our lads were still minors, so I'd guess they are 23-24 so a bit ahead of Kerry's crop and surrounded by brilliant veterans like Keegan and O'Shea. That's not a sleight on mayos lads in any way, all I am saying is that Kerry need time to grow as a team. The media seem desperate to build up the next challenger to Dublin and stoke the Kerry V Dublin narrative, we saw this in 2018 and 2017 as well. I'm not buying it just yet but I am upbeat about Kerry's prospects in the medium to long term. Perhaps it's blind optimism, we'll see eventually I guess."
Kerry are a year or two away yet.
Dublin won the 2014 u21 all Ireland and half that team backboned last years all Ireland. Added to lads that won u21's in 2010 and 2012. They also won in 2017 so will be around for a while yet.

Mayo won the U21 in 2016 and Sunday's team had 4 or 5 from that team with 5 of the 2006 team still playing (Higgins, Barrett, Boyle, Vaughan, Mcloughlin)

Tyrone won in 2015 and had 5 or 6 from that team in last years panel and they should be very good this year.

Galway's panel is made from the 2011 and 2013 all Ireland U21 winners.

The reality is Kerry would have won last year U20 but for Clifford and O shea being prevented from playing.

Most lads don't become top quality reliable county players until 24 bar the real superstars (fenton s and Cliffords of this world). So Kerry will come good but it will be 2021 before they are a match for Dublin.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 780 - 03/04/2019 04:43:02    2177424

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I've read a lot of the posts on this thread especially the ones posted after the game and I've got to say that the discussion of the game has been refreshing in that the comments have been on point, no personal insults, and people not losing their minds about the game. It makes me wonder what the thread would look like if Mayo had lost? People would be burning out keyboards questioning AOS and Lee Keegan's manhood and Mayo would be lucky to get by New York. If nothing else Mayo's victory gives then a chance to prepare for the championship in relative peace.

JuniorBee (Mayo) - Posts: 40 - 03/04/2019 05:25:34    2177426

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Replying To JuniorBee:  "I've read a lot of the posts on this thread especially the ones posted after the game and I've got to say that the discussion of the game has been refreshing in that the comments have been on point, no personal insults, and people not losing their minds about the game. It makes me wonder what the thread would look like if Mayo had lost? People would be burning out keyboards questioning AOS and Lee Keegan's manhood and Mayo would be lucky to get by New York. If nothing else Mayo's victory gives then a chance to prepare for the championship in relative peace."
Trust me if they don't win Sam all that will be brought up.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 03/04/2019 09:47:54    2177441

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Replying To JuniorBee:  "I've read a lot of the posts on this thread especially the ones posted after the game and I've got to say that the discussion of the game has been refreshing in that the comments have been on point, no personal insults, and people not losing their minds about the game. It makes me wonder what the thread would look like if Mayo had lost? People would be burning out keyboards questioning AOS and Lee Keegan's manhood and Mayo would be lucky to get by New York. If nothing else Mayo's victory gives then a chance to prepare for the championship in relative peace."
Just enjoy the win.
If they lost to Kerry , people would be questioning if they could beat New York? Come of it.
No need to bring attention to this.

Fewpucks24 (Galway) - Posts: 83 - 03/04/2019 09:55:01    2177442

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "Kerry are a year or two away yet.
Dublin won the 2014 u21 all Ireland and half that team backboned last years all Ireland. Added to lads that won u21's in 2010 and 2012. They also won in 2017 so will be around for a while yet.

Mayo won the U21 in 2016 and Sunday's team had 4 or 5 from that team with 5 of the 2006 team still playing (Higgins, Barrett, Boyle, Vaughan, Mcloughlin)

Tyrone won in 2015 and had 5 or 6 from that team in last years panel and they should be very good this year.

Galway's panel is made from the 2011 and 2013 all Ireland U21 winners.

The reality is Kerry would have won last year U20 but for Clifford and O shea being prevented from playing.

Most lads don't become top quality reliable county players until 24 bar the real superstars (fenton s and Cliffords of this world). So Kerry will come good but it will be 2021 before they are a match for Dublin."
Galway's panel isn't made up of panel members from the 2011 & 2013 All ireland winning teams.

There's only one player who's guaranteed to start from 2011 in Tomas Flynn whilst Danny Cummins will be in the 26.
Flynn was also in the 2013 team but only Shane Walsh, Ian Burke & Comer were part of the 2013 team whilst Varley will have work cut out to make the 26 so you're looking at only 5 or 6 from that era who are in and around the Galway team.

Galway have a fair old balance from recent years u21 teams. Silke, Kerin, Heaney, Brannigan, Comer & Molloy (1st year u21)were on the 2015 u21 team whilst Molloy, Sean Kelly, Michael Daly, Sean Andy Kelly, O'Laoi, D'Arcy, Peter Cooke & McDaid were part of the 2017 u21 team.

Galway have a good age profile with very few players aged over 25.

JDF (Galway) - Posts: 318 - 03/04/2019 09:57:39    2177444

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David Clifford on the ball manages to look ungainly but graceful and in full control at the same time. For the first goal 99/100 footballers would have lost the ball but he has the natural composure to do the right thing. Vision and natural ability plus a whole lot more.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 5498 - 03/04/2019 10:42:04    2177453

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "David Clifford on the ball manages to look ungainly but graceful and in full control at the same time. For the first goal 99/100 footballers would have lost the ball but he has the natural composure to do the right thing. Vision and natural ability plus a whole lot more."
He might have lost it too were it not for the double-hop. I'm joking of course.
He's a joy to watch and is one of those rare talents who looks like he has so much more time than everyone else.
He has great balance, is strong, has a proper football IQ and is a deadly finisher. Pretty much the ultimate nightmare for any defender.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 560 - 03/04/2019 11:34:02    2177461

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "He might have lost it too were it not for the double-hop. I'm joking of course.
He's a joy to watch and is one of those rare talents who looks like he has so much more time than everyone else.
He has great balance, is strong, has a proper football IQ and is a deadly finisher. Pretty much the ultimate nightmare for any defender."
Just to point out having looked back it actually wasn't a double hop, it only counts as a completed bounce if you catch it which he didn't, he flicked it on to Crowley. It was a perfectly legitimate goal and well done to the referee for allowing it.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1568 - 03/04/2019 11:40:41    2177462

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Good post as always Gerry I'd accept and be open minded on your likely better knowledge of it down the South West.

What would be an interesting insight would be the average age of say the Super 8 panels. I have no idea personally but I think there would be a few eye brows raised.

Seems like so many counties are bringing through an awful lot of good young players, it's great to see.

It's going to fascinating the different cocktails that leads to this year and the years just ahead, as you say Kerry's may be a total reboot, others like Mayo and Tyrone are adding good underage success to All Ireland final stalwart squads. Galway have layers and generations of successful underage squads to be added to a really talented bunch. We tend to be no slouches ourselves picking up the odd gem from quite a big pick, even if this year we've just picked up one genuine contender.

I can't remember a time when the vast majority of counties seem to be bringing through so many talented young players all at the same time. Maybe it's the way of it."
Indeed, someone made the point in another thread that we could be coming in to a really good period of football where you have 4-6 teams all around the same level and all capable of winning Sam depending on how the ball bounces for them. I hope this is the case.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1568 - 03/04/2019 11:51:48    2177463

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "Just to point out having looked back it actually wasn't a double hop, it only counts as a completed bounce if you catch it which he didn't, he flicked it on to Crowley. It was a perfectly legitimate goal and well done to the referee for allowing it."
100% correct Gerry, Clifford did not foul the ball and it showed again what awareness the kid had not to catch the ball again and flick it to Crowley instead.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 9545 - 03/04/2019 12:04:37    2177466

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Who do the Mayo posters think will be their starting 15 com e the championship.

I think he'll go with Hennelly and Higgins, Barrett, Harrison, Keegan & Durcan are certs along with Ruane, AOS, the 2 O'Connors, McLaughlin & Doherty will leaves 3 places up for grabs.

JDF (Galway) - Posts: 318 - 03/04/2019 13:01:15    2177473

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "Just to point out having looked back it actually wasn't a double hop, it only counts as a completed bounce if you catch it which he didn't, he flicked it on to Crowley. It was a perfectly legitimate goal and well done to the referee for allowing it."
I'm fairly sure it's not if you catch it again that it's a double hop.
Friend of mine who's a ref explained it to me a few years ago and said it's when it hits the ground a second time it's a foul.
He was telling me about some rules that people aren't aware of and end up going mental at the ref when he calls them.
You can repeat hop it like basketball but not play it off the second hop.

Superglue (Kerry) - Posts: 1264 - 03/04/2019 13:13:22    2177479

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Replying To Superglue:  "I'm fairly sure it's not if you catch it again that it's a double hop.
Friend of mine who's a ref explained it to me a few years ago and said it's when it hits the ground a second time it's a foul.
He was telling me about some rules that people aren't aware of and end up going mental at the ref when he calls them.
You can repeat hop it like basketball but not play it off the second hop."
In that case dropping the ball on the ground or attempting a drop kick after a hop is a technical foul? Surely that can't be the case? My understanding is that a bounce includes the catch after and taking control of the ball. Perhaps the rulebook doesn't specify in the case of what happened on Sunday and it's a grey area? I'm glad it stood anyway, super finish by Crowley.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1568 - 03/04/2019 13:47:04    2177491

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Replying To JDF:  "Who do the Mayo posters think will be their starting 15 com e the championship.

I think he'll go with Hennelly and Higgins, Barrett, Harrison, Keegan & Durcan are certs along with Ruane, AOS, the 2 O'Connors, McLaughlin & Doherty will leaves 3 places up for grabs."
Expecting Ryan O'Donoghue to take a spot when he returns from injury, he is possibly our most promising attacking forward
carr should start if he an stay fit allowing to rotate with Andy .
Fionn MCDonagh should be close to a starting berth but its all about having 6 that an step off the bench .

Vishred (Mayo) - Posts: 303 - 03/04/2019 15:13:34    2177510

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As good as Clifford and O'Shea might be, they will have to contribute more than 2 points than play between them in big games. Especially if Geaney and O'Donoghue aren't adding much to the team. Kerry players appeared at times to be almost afraid to take shots on Sunday, big regression in forward play from 10 years ago.

greatpoint (USA) - Posts: 226 - 03/04/2019 15:19:02    2177511

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "Just to point out having looked back it actually wasn't a double hop, it only counts as a completed bounce if you catch it which he didn't, he flicked it on to Crowley. It was a perfectly legitimate goal and well done to the referee for allowing it."
Attempting a second hop regardless of whether you catch it again is a foul. You're right that he realised he'd taken a second hop which is why he punched it, but it is a foul. One I've had blown against me a few times.
If the ball has been caught initially after the first hop, you can't hop it again straight after.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 560 - 03/04/2019 15:42:03    2177519

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Why was Boyle awarded a free out when he caught the saved attempt from Clifford? Glad for Mayo but just curious

maroondiesel (Mayo) - Posts: 956 - 03/04/2019 16:05:07    2177523

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