National Forum

GAA Should Campaign For A United Ireland.

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Replying To thegadfly:  "I was wondering when the "we can't afford it" brigade would chime in. Educate yourself. We can afford it. In fact we would be better of reunified as has been proven already. And anyway, even if we couldn't how about everyone taking a hit financially so we could help all Irish people live together in the same country and then work together to improve things."
Explain how much more educated you are on how we can afford it. To do so and keep servicing our debt of 180 billionish. To self-sustain ourselves. To integrate finance, health, agriculture, education, social welfare services amongst many more which currently run on two currencies? Would need a vote in 6 counties before consideration for a start.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7344 - 08/03/2019 11:49:34    2171049

Link

Replying To PaudieSull1:  "I always love the way that it's often people whose counties did f all in the war of independence who have the most partionist views, as Ernie O Malley said on another man's wound

Whether people like it or not the GAA is much more than a sporting organisation and by its very constitution is a Nationalist organisation, there is nothing wrong with that and many many members are proud of its ethos and aims....others treat it as just another sport which is fine but I wonder what the views would be of the committee members and office bearers up and down the country as opposed to the 'casual' members"
Proper order.. Some incredible ignorance being displayed by the usual casual county fans here. Id say if you delve into the true gaels in club football in any county you will get much stronger nationalist view point.. And wont be afraid of giving you their opinion on politics either!

cuttothebone (Kildare) - Posts: 163 - 08/03/2019 11:52:58    2171050

Link

Replying To cavanman47:  "The personal financial impact line was the one used by Scottish unionists in their independence referendum. It applied there, but as pointed out above, it doesn't apply here. Belfast would thrive under our corporation tax rules."
Belfast probably would thrive. But a boom there wouldn't necessarily pay for merging the 6 counties with the 26.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7344 - 08/03/2019 11:56:38    2171051

Link

Replying To GreenandRed:  "Explain how much more educated you are on how we can afford it. To do so and keep servicing our debt of 180 billionish. To self-sustain ourselves. To integrate finance, health, agriculture, education, social welfare services amongst many more which currently run on two currencies? Would need a vote in 6 counties before consideration for a start."
"[For the north of Ireland] The UK's annual subvention is just over €10bn annually. When seen from the perspective of the North, with its total GDP of under €50bn, it looks like a significant figure - but when seen from the perspective of Dublin, it is not insurmountable. The usual way financial markets assess whether national expenditure and debts are sustainable is the debt/GDP ratio. Northern Ireland would cost less than 4 per cent of the Irish Republic's GDP annually. Of course, even this manageable figure would end up lower because the combined Irish GDP of the Republic combined with the North would be well over €300 billion, reducing the subvention as a percentage of income yet more. In pure budgetary terms, there is little doubt that the Republic's economy could absorb the North and this is before the commercial dynamism of unification kicks in.

And the above doesn't even factor in the strong likelihood of continued financial contributions from the UK, as well as the EU and perhaps US, towards a post-unity Six Counties."

- David McWilliams


But why would we listen to him, eh?

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5012 - 08/03/2019 12:05:28    2171053

Link

Replying To cavanman47:  ""[For the north of Ireland
The UK's annual subvention is just over €10bn annually. When seen from the perspective of the North, with its total GDP of under €50bn, it looks like a significant figure - but when seen from the perspective of Dublin, it is not insurmountable. The usual way financial markets assess whether national expenditure and debts are sustainable is the debt/GDP ratio. Northern Ireland would cost less than 4 per cent of the Irish Republic's GDP annually. Of course, even this manageable figure would end up lower because the combined Irish GDP of the Republic combined with the North would be well over €300 billion, reducing the subvention as a percentage of income yet more. In pure budgetary terms, there is little doubt that the Republic's economy could absorb the North and this is before the commercial dynamism of unification kicks in.

And the above doesn't even factor in the strong likelihood of continued financial contributions from the UK, as well as the EU and perhaps US, towards a post-unity Six Counties."

- David McWilliams


But why would we listen to him, eh?"]So we'd just pick a day, unify and all the services merge at no extra cost, everyone keeps their jobs and drive on? Absolutely it would be class to have a United Ireland, don't let my posts make it seems like I don't want it to happen, just not keen to go to a deeper recession. Ideally the UK sign a cheque to the EU for 39 Billion before they close the door and the EU give it to us to unify. Would be nice but can't see it happening. I don't like the idea too much of multinationals moving here for the taxbreak because they'd move again for a better rate. Anyways, the banks, the real government will let us know what we should do. Governments are their servants.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7344 - 08/03/2019 12:29:45    2171060

Link

No need....the DUP will deliver it on a plate to us!!

No surrender!!

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 08/03/2019 13:02:41    2171066

Link

Of course the GAA should AND WILL campaign for a UI in the event of a border poll. They cant afford not to.
Conflating a border poll with the ssm and abortion refs is silly and smacks of desperate agenda pushing. I dont know whats more depressing - Some of the shameful contributions on here or the fact that I half expected them .

Finsceal (None) - Posts: 559 - 08/03/2019 13:03:15    2171067

Link

Replying To cavanman47:  ""[For the north of Ireland
The UK's annual subvention is just over €10bn annually. When seen from the perspective of the North, with its total GDP of under €50bn, it looks like a significant figure - but when seen from the perspective of Dublin, it is not insurmountable. The usual way financial markets assess whether national expenditure and debts are sustainable is the debt/GDP ratio. Northern Ireland would cost less than 4 per cent of the Irish Republic's GDP annually. Of course, even this manageable figure would end up lower because the combined Irish GDP of the Republic combined with the North would be well over €300 billion, reducing the subvention as a percentage of income yet more. In pure budgetary terms, there is little doubt that the Republic's economy could absorb the North and this is before the commercial dynamism of unification kicks in.

And the above doesn't even factor in the strong likelihood of continued financial contributions from the UK, as well as the EU and perhaps US, towards a post-unity Six Counties."

- David McWilliams


But why would we listen to him, eh?"]Maybe because he was the same fella who thought the bank guarantee was a great idea when Brian Lenihan asked him?

Im all for a united Ireland even if it will mean a bit of monetary pain in the short term likely for everyone on this island.

But i also believe that the GAA should not be taking an official stance on it and one of the reasons being keeping the GAA out of it means its much more likely in my opinion.

Like it or not a united Ireland is going to require a social surrender in many ways which in my opinion would be totally worth it. The Unionist population fear a complete eradication of their culture and view the GAA with high suspicion so having the GAA take an unprecedented approach of campaigning on a political matter will in reality have them pull totally against the idea.

For a United Ireland to happen and to work its going to take years of working together and acceptance of all sides with as i said above a degree of social surrender on all sides, a broadly recognised National Sporting organisation actively pursuing a political agenda would have the exact opposite affect to what it wants and whats needed ie: bringin all communities together, i mean think of a broadly Unionist organisation with no poltiical engagement doing the opposite and fighting against a United Ireland on the flip side? We would end up getting nowhere.

We should continue to pursue our organisations goals in an open and conciliatory manner for the good of the island as a whole and welcome dialogue and debate on what role we can play across the entire island for all people of all backgrounds, creeds, beliefs and religion and will do all we can to continue to do so no matter what ever happens in regards to a United Ireland.

IMHO keeping the GAA out of it makes a United Ireland more probable which im all for.

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1337 - 08/03/2019 13:15:52    2171070

Link

Replying To GreenandRed:  "
Replying To cavanman47:  ""[For the north of Ireland
The UK's annual subvention is just over €10bn annually. When seen from the perspective of the North, with its total GDP of under €50bn, it looks like a significant figure - but when seen from the perspective of Dublin, it is not insurmountable. The usual way financial markets assess whether national expenditure and debts are sustainable is the debt/GDP ratio. Northern Ireland would cost less than 4 per cent of the Irish Republic's GDP annually. Of course, even this manageable figure would end up lower because the combined Irish GDP of the Republic combined with the North would be well over €300 billion, reducing the subvention as a percentage of income yet more. In pure budgetary terms, there is little doubt that the Republic's economy could absorb the North and this is before the commercial dynamism of unification kicks in.

And the above doesn't even factor in the strong likelihood of continued financial contributions from the UK, as well as the EU and perhaps US, towards a post-unity Six Counties."

- David McWilliams


But why would we listen to him, eh?"
So we'd just pick a day, unify and all the services merge at no extra cost, everyone keeps their jobs and drive on? Absolutely it would be class to have a United Ireland, don't let my posts make it seems like I don't want it to happen, just not keen to go to a deeper recession. Ideally the UK sign a cheque to the EU for 39 Billion before they close the door and the EU give it to us to unify. Would be nice but can't see it happening. I don't like the idea too much of multinationals moving here for the taxbreak because they'd move again for a better rate. Anyways, the banks, the real government will let us know what we should do. Governments are their servants."]Nothing wrong with what you're saying - it would take an immense amount of work!

The health service is a mess now and would likely become a bigger mess, there are too many civil servants in the north, the social welfare bill would increase, etc. . It would take subvention from Britain and the EU to overcome the initial (10yr+) costs.

There is nowhere else in the EU (the world's biggest single market) with better conditions for multinationals - tax, educated and experienced workforce, climate, and - being honest - successive governments willing to turn a blind eye to minor rule breaches.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5012 - 08/03/2019 13:16:46    2171071

Link

We have a disunited republic as things stand (the economic powerhouse that is Dublin and its immediate hinterland vs the rest). Tagging on 6 onto the 26 will not make a united Ireland. Getting rid of the physical border is the easy bit....getting rid of the border mentality inside peoples heads would be the difficult part and it could take generations to achieve. And that border mentality is ingrained in a sizeable chunk of the republic's population. I am all in favour of it but personally I think it is a fantasy that will never happen.
If it ever comes about it is not an issue that the GAA as an organisation should get involved in. Fine if individuals within the organisation campaign for it in a personal capacity but it is not something that the organisation as a whole should have a policy on.

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1903 - 08/03/2019 13:37:04    2171073

Link

Replying To himachechy:  "Strongest GAA Province on the island?!?!? Big Talk sir, big talk"
Well it's the province with the most success ie. All Ireland victories. The records show it.

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 08/03/2019 13:39:50    2171074

Link

Its funny the way the usual suspects who hate mixing politics with sport always jump at any opportunity to do just that

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 08/03/2019 13:45:16    2171076

Link

Replying To bumpernut:  "Its funny the way the usual suspects who hate mixing politics with sport always jump at any opportunity to do just that"
It's also funny those who seem to think that the job was completed in 1921 and are happy with their lot. ;-)

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 08/03/2019 14:11:45    2171084

Link

It depends on the circumstances imo.

A negotiated united Ireland would be beneficial to everyone on the island so I wouldn't have a problem with any organisation campaigning for it.

However not so much if there were a border poll announced tomorrow morning.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13707 - 08/03/2019 14:51:31    2171096

Link

Replying To tearintom:  "
Replying To cavanman47:  ""[For the north of Ireland
The UK's annual subvention is just over €10bn annually. When seen from the perspective of the North, with its total GDP of under €50bn, it looks like a significant figure - but when seen from the perspective of Dublin, it is not insurmountable. The usual way financial markets assess whether national expenditure and debts are sustainable is the debt/GDP ratio. Northern Ireland would cost less than 4 per cent of the Irish Republic's GDP annually. Of course, even this manageable figure would end up lower because the combined Irish GDP of the Republic combined with the North would be well over €300 billion, reducing the subvention as a percentage of income yet more. In pure budgetary terms, there is little doubt that the Republic's economy could absorb the North and this is before the commercial dynamism of unification kicks in.

And the above doesn't even factor in the strong likelihood of continued financial contributions from the UK, as well as the EU and perhaps US, towards a post-unity Six Counties."

- David McWilliams


But why would we listen to him, eh?"
Maybe because he was the same fella who thought the bank guarantee was a great idea when Brian Lenihan asked him?

Im all for a united Ireland even if it will mean a bit of monetary pain in the short term likely for everyone on this island.

But i also believe that the GAA should not be taking an official stance on it and one of the reasons being keeping the GAA out of it means its much more likely in my opinion.

Like it or not a united Ireland is going to require a social surrender in many ways which in my opinion would be totally worth it. The Unionist population fear a complete eradication of their culture and view the GAA with high suspicion so having the GAA take an unprecedented approach of campaigning on a political matter will in reality have them pull totally against the idea.

For a United Ireland to happen and to work its going to take years of working together and acceptance of all sides with as i said above a degree of social surrender on all sides, a broadly recognised National Sporting organisation actively pursuing a political agenda would have the exact opposite affect to what it wants and whats needed ie: bringin all communities together, i mean think of a broadly Unionist organisation with no poltiical engagement doing the opposite and fighting against a United Ireland on the flip side? We would end up getting nowhere.

We should continue to pursue our organisations goals in an open and conciliatory manner for the good of the island as a whole and welcome dialogue and debate on what role we can play across the entire island for all people of all backgrounds, creeds, beliefs and religion and will do all we can to continue to do so no matter what ever happens in regards to a United Ireland.

IMHO keeping the GAA out of it makes a United Ireland more probable which im all for."]Great post.

I would love a united Ireland in the right circumstances.

The current opportunistic grab for it being spoken about by SF is not the right way to go about it.

That's not an unrealistic proposition for a Nationalist member of the association to hold. Even before getting into the economic factors, the intricacies of which are beyond my expertise, that could have members being turned off the idea.

I care about Ireland, I care about the state that has been put together, I care about the people in the North on all sides who suffered through decades of violence and where the situation is increasing in volatility right now.

I don't see there to be a compelling reason for the association to get itself involved now.

From a strategic point of view is having the GAA onboard even an advantage?

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4222 - 08/03/2019 17:51:43    2171121

Link

Replying To suckvalleypaddy:  "I actually felt sorry for Karen Bradley this week as I think she is not aware of the hurt caused by the security forces against the GAA (example: Aiden Mc Anespie) and the community at large. I would accept her apology. Violence is always wrong and may it never scourge our country again. Time to reunite Ireland and the GAA should be overtly for this. The posters who like the 26 county set up are using politics to suit themselves. The GAA welcomes all people and I am a proud member. I think if there was a deal that the six counties could use the Euro, that would be a great step in the right direction. Also the soccer should merge, like the rugby. Peace to all."
No way would I feel sorry for her. In September 2018 she admitted in an interview for House magazine, a weekly publication for the Houses of Parliament, that she had not understood Northern Irish politics before being appointed Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. "I didn't understand things like when elections are fought, for example, in Northern Ireland - people who are nationalists don't vote for unionist parties and vice versa," she said. It just sums up the typical ignorant Brit who would respond with why are they fighting in Northern Ireland sure it's only religion.

OLLIE (Louth) - Posts: 12224 - 08/03/2019 19:57:58    2171141

Link

Replying To OLLIE:  "No way would I feel sorry for her. In September 2018 she admitted in an interview for House magazine, a weekly publication for the Houses of Parliament, that she had not understood Northern Irish politics before being appointed Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. "I didn't understand things like when elections are fought, for example, in Northern Ireland - people who are nationalists don't vote for unionist parties and vice versa," she said. It just sums up the typical ignorant Brit who would respond with why are they fighting in Northern Ireland sure it's only religion."
And she's the one with the power to activate the mechanism within the good Friday agreement to call a border poll when she feels there is enough appetite for a united Ireland. Evidently, the woman hasn't a scoobey doo of what's going on in the North. Is it possible that she could be that ignorant or is there something more to it. How insensitive could she be considering the week that's in it.

thegadfly (Cavan) - Posts: 290 - 08/03/2019 20:44:21    2171151

Link

Replying To OLLIE:  "No way would I feel sorry for her. In September 2018 she admitted in an interview for House magazine, a weekly publication for the Houses of Parliament, that she had not understood Northern Irish politics before being appointed Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. "I didn't understand things like when elections are fought, for example, in Northern Ireland - people who are nationalists don't vote for unionist parties and vice versa," she said. It just sums up the typical ignorant Brit who would respond with why are they fighting in Northern Ireland sure it's only religion."
Ollie, I would be "sorry" for her in the context that she is nieve and ill informed. Truth is that there are many sore wounds of the troubles on all sides and plenty of wrong doing to go around. The artificial gerrymandered border caused the problem. The GAA can help by being for a united Ireland and to continue to treat all people equally. We don't need British ministers to rule this side of the Irish Sea. England should concentrate on uniting the people of England. Peace and justice to all in this lenten season.

suckvalleypaddy (Galway) - Posts: 1669 - 08/03/2019 20:57:03    2171155

Link

I would expect the GAA to strongly support a united Ireland. The country is 32 counties with 6 ruled from afar. Guys posting about the 10billion and we cannot afford! We can afford to spend 2 billion on a hospital that could be build on a greenfield site for 25% of that sum. We are very good at wasting money. A united Ireland would not cost 10billion or anything near it. The guy who headed the financial structure of joining Germany did the sums on Ireland -all parts and reckons that there would be a financial gain and I would think that his knowledge would be better than some of the penny pinching poster comments being made. The 10billion figure is made up of approx. 3billion+ for pensions of a civil service, another 1.5billion of army costs against the north and numerous other costs which the UK taxpayer would have to continue to spend as those costs are unrelated to Ireland. Needles to say I would also expect a significant annual contribution from the UK over a number of years.

browncows (Meath) - Posts: 2342 - 08/03/2019 21:59:57    2171162

Link

link

A bit off topic but in case you don't know. Rumour has it, if there's a no deal Brexit, that Northern Ireland licences will not be valid in 26 counties. You can buy an Irish licence before March 29th, after that you may need to do the driving test here with a waiting list of up to 6 month. Hopefully won't affect anyone here.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7344 - 08/03/2019 22:23:55    2171165

Link