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There is no point debating this any further. I have made the decision to not give the GAA any more of my money. And I am clearly not the only one.
Not one single Dub will admit to the farce, and it is incredibly sad that they care more about winning at all costs than about the game itself. Blinkered and short sited. However the association itself is the real villain here. Its like the Tory government. Reasoning that giving Dublin incredible advantages makes "financial sense". What has "financial sense" got to do with an amateur organisation?
Dublin will win 10 in a row. And it won't mean a thing.
Daith (Kildare) - Posts: 1171 - 23/02/2019 22:52:52
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Typical GAA delegate decision making...... county delegates rejecting something proposed by another county that they would claim they are broadly in agreement with, pure on the basis of semantics cos "it is not worded properly".
Congress sometimes reminds me of the film The Life of Brian..... the Peoples Front of Judea have to show they are different from the Judea's People's Front though they are both on the same side against the Romans. Ditto with counties and their views on Dublin getting to play two Super 8 games in Croke Park.
PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1902 - 23/02/2019 23:04:35
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As a Donegal exile living in Leitrim I respect Congress decision to vote against the Donegal motion, I don't agree with it but I respect democracy. I take issue with John Costello s comments he didn't like the motion but to say it was mean spirited was bang out of order. Great to see meath support for the dubs, wouldn't have happened in Mick Lyons day!!!
totalrecall (Leitrim) - Posts: 912 - 23/02/2019 23:04:40
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Replying To icehonesty: "The Donegal motion was wrong to begin with. As it currently stands, teams in the Super 8 play one home game, one away game, and one Croke Park game. The Donegal motion sought to prevent Dublin from playing their home game in Croke Park. I feel this was completely wrong to be honest and here's why.
Croke Park is Dublin's home ground. Dublin jackeens can rattle on all they like about Parnell Park, but Croke Park is Dublin's home. There are Dublin fans I know who've never set foot in Parnell Park. The motion should have sought to challenge the neutrality the GAA brass and Dublin claim Croke Park is. Croke Park is NOT a neutral ground for a team playing Dublin.
Motion 39 should have been to allow Dublin play their home games wherever they like: Croke Park, Parnell Park or wherever they want. However, the alleged neutral game for Dublin in the Super 8 should NEVER be in Croke Park. If they are going to play Donegal it should be in Clones, if playing Kerry in Thurles, etc. Not Croke Park.
Donegal tried to continue the lie that Croke Park is okay as a neutral ground and then say they shouldn't be able to play at home there. A home team should be allowed play their home game wherever they like (same for Waterford, they should have been allowed play in Nowlan Park or Fraher Field or Walsh Park last year). But a neutral game, a neutral game should always be in a neutral ground roughly halfway between the two teams, and NOT in a ground in one side's home county.
And as a side note, I think the idea that if a group had say, Cork, Kerry, Mayo and Galway in it, that those teams should travel to Dublin to play against each other is absolutely stupid. Making fans travel hours to a game in a half empty stadium. Nonsense." While I agree that the white elephant that is Croke Park needs constant feeding to make it look viable, it shouldn't be allowed to distort right & wrong to such a degree that what should be the basic principles of any sporting association worth its name get thrown out the window.
You can argue the merits of the wording all day long, but either version would be a lot better than the travesty that has been allowed to continue.
For the record, I don't believe for one minute that the counties who voted the proposal down did so for the reasons given by icehonesty, I believe they were leaned on by Croke Park & I wouldn't trust any of them to sit the right way round on a jacks.
MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 23/02/2019 23:26:51
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Replying To Kingdomson: "As a Kerryman and being completely selfish, I'm more than happy to play Dublin all they want to in our national stadium of Croke Park and I actually prefer this. Moreover, Kerry have zero fear of playing Dublin in Croke Park or wherever but that's not what this issue is about. Although it would be fun if Dublin came down to Killarney some summer for a high stakes super 8 match (perhaps some day), and i still have those great memories of when we played the Dubs in Semple Stadium for a quarter final.
Leaving county allegiance aside and taking a helicopter view here, all this is really about money. 'Ah think, about the poor people and children who can't see the game' - really? How stupid does Costello think people are? Obviously, quite stupid. This is all about bringing more money in for the GAA at the end of the day and nothing to do with fairness.
At least a true blue Dub like Paddy Cullen can admit it's an unfair advantage and I think most decent and honest people can all agree it's an unfair advantage, despite the crowing on these boards. I think Mayo's Kevin McStay put it well.
McStay dismissed the notion that playing a big championship game in the 9,000-capacity Parnell Park would see too many supporters miss out.
"What happens if Halifax Town are playing Manchester United in round six of the FA Cup?" he argued. "There's live TV now. Nobody will not get to see the game."
Your right Kevin but think of all that money that would be missed out on. Greed is number one and fairness is an after thought.
PS: Congress, wink, wink, nudge, nudge, to hell with fairness, vote against this and we'll look after you, sort you out with a grant or what not." I agree its an unfair advantage, its absolute b****x mate BUT 64% of county delegates voted against changing that advantage and i cant get my head around it. Its like a vegan sitting in a restaurant eating a steak, drinking a glass of milk wearing sheep skin coat. It goes completely against what they believe and makes hypocrites of the whole lot. Nonsense.
waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 23/02/2019 23:58:32
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Replying To icehonesty: "The Donegal motion was wrong to begin with. As it currently stands, teams in the Super 8 play one home game, one away game, and one Croke Park game. The Donegal motion sought to prevent Dublin from playing their home game in Croke Park. I feel this was completely wrong to be honest and here's why.
Croke Park is Dublin's home ground. Dublin jackeens can rattle on all they like about Parnell Park, but Croke Park is Dublin's home. There are Dublin fans I know who've never set foot in Parnell Park. The motion should have sought to challenge the neutrality the GAA brass and Dublin claim Croke Park is. Croke Park is NOT a neutral ground for a team playing Dublin.
Motion 39 should have been to allow Dublin play their home games wherever they like: Croke Park, Parnell Park or wherever they want. However, the alleged neutral game for Dublin in the Super 8 should NEVER be in Croke Park. If they are going to play Donegal it should be in Clones, if playing Kerry in Thurles, etc. Not Croke Park.
Donegal tried to continue the lie that Croke Park is okay as a neutral ground and then say they shouldn't be able to play at home there. A home team should be allowed play their home game wherever they like (same for Waterford, they should have been allowed play in Nowlan Park or Fraher Field or Walsh Park last year). But a neutral game, a neutral game should always be in a neutral ground roughly halfway between the two teams, and NOT in a ground in one side's home county.
And as a side note, I think the idea that if a group had say, Cork, Kerry, Mayo and Galway in it, that those teams should travel to Dublin to play against each other is absolutely stupid. Making fans travel hours to a game in a half empty stadium. Nonsense." That's all very grand but do you honestly think that your logic or wording to that affect would have led to Congress approving dublin playing only one super 8 match in croke park?
Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 687 - 24/02/2019 00:12:50
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Replying To icehonesty: "The Donegal motion was wrong to begin with. As it currently stands, teams in the Super 8 play one home game, one away game, and one Croke Park game. The Donegal motion sought to prevent Dublin from playing their home game in Croke Park. I feel this was completely wrong to be honest and here's why.
Croke Park is Dublin's home ground. Dublin jackeens can rattle on all they like about Parnell Park, but Croke Park is Dublin's home. There are Dublin fans I know who've never set foot in Parnell Park. The motion should have sought to challenge the neutrality the GAA brass and Dublin claim Croke Park is. Croke Park is NOT a neutral ground for a team playing Dublin.
Motion 39 should have been to allow Dublin play their home games wherever they like: Croke Park, Parnell Park or wherever they want. However, the alleged neutral game for Dublin in the Super 8 should NEVER be in Croke Park. If they are going to play Donegal it should be in Clones, if playing Kerry in Thurles, etc. Not Croke Park.
Donegal tried to continue the lie that Croke Park is okay as a neutral ground and then say they shouldn't be able to play at home there. A home team should be allowed play their home game wherever they like (same for Waterford, they should have been allowed play in Nowlan Park or Fraher Field or Walsh Park last year). But a neutral game, a neutral game should always be in a neutral ground roughly halfway between the two teams, and NOT in a ground in one side's home county.
And as a side note, I think the idea that if a group had say, Cork, Kerry, Mayo and Galway in it, that those teams should travel to Dublin to play against each other is absolutely stupid. Making fans travel hours to a game in a half empty stadium. Nonsense." The wording of Dublin playing a home game or neutral game in Croke park would not have mattered one iota in the vote this evening. The wording was not the reason it was defeated.
The president of the GAA made a cringe worthy statement on the motion this evening, side stepping the elephant in the room with a nonsensical comment about Kerry wanting to stop Dublin's drive for 5 in their own back yard. That may be a fair enough comment in the semis or the final, but it has nothing to do with the specifics of the motion in the first instance.
I actually feel a bit sorry for the Dublin footballers and supporters now. They would have liked to, or at the very worse case, been indifferent about travelling to a neutral venue in the super 8 competition. Thurles in 2001 was a perfect case of this. What we are going to get instead is an empty hq except for an all Ireland final. Give it about 3 years and the final will not even be sold out and the GAA will be forced to give massively discounted tickets to kids around the schools to save face.
Watch and see.
Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 24/02/2019 00:23:38
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Vent your outrage closer to home folks
Quite clear to see that many of your own CB officials do not respect your strongly held opinions.. so what's next?
Would you be better served spending time sending correspondences to them rather than wasting the same words here?
I for one agree and I can only embarrassingly apologise for many of your fellow county representatives on this occasion.
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 24/02/2019 08:57:31
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Lads what happens is that someone "high up" sees a potentially financially damaging motion on the clar at Congress. What happens then is a high ranking official or officials will contact Co.chairmen individually to presuade them to instruct their delegates to vote against it. Usually with the very well mannered but serious threat of funding cuts.
For example a phone call to the cork chairman may have gone something like this "Tracey, that sandpit will have to be paid for, there'll be less money available if motion X passes, so it would probably be best for you if you vote against it".
Or to the Antrim chairman "about casement park, you know that the GAA are fully supportive of the project, but if motion Y passes then we might not be able to commit as much funding to the project as we had planned"
To the overseas chairmen "lads, you know the way we subsidise all your trips to Ireland for matches, well if motion Z passes then......."
This is what happens ladies and gentlemen when a motion is brought forward like this
890202 (Wexford) - Posts: 1278 - 24/02/2019 09:34:25
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So Dublin will have 2 games in Croker instead of one game in Croker and another in Parnell. I can see why people voted against that actually.
The Donegal motion was silly from the beginning.
The real question is why none of the 31 counties that aren't Dublin brought a proper motion to Congress.
If the other counties are united, or just enough of them are, there is nothing any of the higher ups can do about it. No cloak and dagger stuff at all.
Dublin could be forced to play all their games on Tory Island if the other counties want it. But they don't.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13705 - 24/02/2019 10:25:36
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My only surprises are that people are firstly surprised by the outcome of this vote. And second that people then think this shows that the Country don't mind Dublin using Croke Park on the back of this vote. A lot of naive people out there if they think you just accept things on the face of them.
Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 24/02/2019 10:31:57
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Replying To totalrecall: "As a Donegal exile living in Leitrim I respect Congress decision to vote against the Donegal motion, I don't agree with it but I respect democracy. I take issue with John Costello s comments he didn't like the motion but to say it was mean spirited was bang out of order. Great to see meath support for the dubs, wouldn't have happened in Mick Lyons day!!!" I agreed with the motion, Dublin or any other County including Donegal shouldn't be given two home games in the Super 8's. unless it applies to every other County too.......maybe on a Bi-Annual basis.
Whether its GAA, Rugby, Soccer etc, we always hear the term "home advantage", because it generally is an advantage for various obvious reasons. And many already agree that Dublin already have significant advantages in terms of funding and use of facilities at their disposal, and when all is added up, collectively stacks the odds in their favor.
This was a straight up argument between 'Fairness for competing Counties' versus 'Greater Financial Income', and the latter won the vote, but not the argument.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1106 - 24/02/2019 10:41:18
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Replying To jimbodub: "Vent your outrage closer to home folks
Quite clear to see that many of your own CB officials do not respect your strongly held opinions.. so what's next?
Would you be better served spending time sending correspondences to them rather than wasting the same words here?
I for one agree and I can only embarrassingly apologise for many of your fellow county representatives on this occasion." Its not outrage Jimbo it's pure apathy at this stage the GAA have stacked the deck in favour of one team for over a decade now and are not even pretending that fairness is part of their thinking. Donegal got screwed last year and were at a disadvantage the moment the groups were known. The financial and logistical ramifications of moving the Dubs from Croker were too inconvenient so they fixed the vote, see Wexford's post above, this is how these things are done. HQ have counties over a barrel with funding.
None of this is Dublin's fault of course, but it's not as if they need yet another advantage over everyone else. Personally I think their neutral game should be in one of the regional grounds, it'd probably sell out and create a brilliant atmosphere. I know the Dublin fans would love it but the corporate income from Croke Park is too important to the powers that be it seems.
So another provincial champion will face two away games and an uphill battle this summer. It simply isn't right.
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 24/02/2019 10:52:19
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Replying To Daith: "There is no point debating this any further. I have made the decision to not give the GAA any more of my money. And I am clearly not the only one.
Not one single Dub will admit to the farce, and it is incredibly sad that they care more about winning at all costs than about the game itself. Blinkered and short sited. However the association itself is the real villain here. Its like the Tory government. Reasoning that giving Dublin incredible advantages makes "financial sense". What has "financial sense" got to do with an amateur organisation?
Dublin will win 10 in a row. And it won't mean a thing." The result of the motion goes to show how out of touch these delegates are with the ordinary GAA public. There are many counties who have little chance of making the super 8s so I can see why they would rather these games to remain in Croke park as its much more beneficial then say a small return for a match in Newbridge or other small venues.
From a Kerry point of view, I dont think Sean Kelly was representing anyone but himself when he made those statements. Our super 8s game v Galway in Croke Park was one of the worst atmospheres in a long time. Does he not think a home and away arrangement, one game in Salthill and the next time we meet to be played in Killarney would be much better.
If we get the dubs in the super 8s a similiar home and away arrangement with them coming to Killarney in the summer would be a massive occasion. But everything will be done to keep them in croker as money talks.
Yes the dubs wont admit but of course the advantage is there for all to see but as you said the association has let themselves down big time.
KY4SAM2015 (Kerry) - Posts: 898 - 24/02/2019 11:01:31
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It's quite simple, 2 home games for Dublin, one home game for the other 7 competing counties is unfair. Even though the motion was worded incorrectly it should have been amended to suit it's purpose. Bureaucracy, greed and parochialism win the day. Forever fumballing in the greasy till.
CaogaCuig (Dublin) - Posts: 63 - 24/02/2019 11:24:54
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Congress exposed again following on from voting against transparency last year. The statements by Sean Kelly & John Horan were outrageous. Considering that Donegal faced an inequitable situation last year & their supporters were made travel to a late evening throw in at Croke Park where many weren't home till late at night, the contempt shown to them yesterday by senior figures was disgraceful. But no surprise though, leadership at the top is no longer about ethos & ideals.
Uimhir.a.3. (Galway) - Posts: 409 - 24/02/2019 11:25:56
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Replying To KY4SAM2015: "The result of the motion goes to show how out of touch these delegates are with the ordinary GAA public. There are many counties who have little chance of making the super 8s so I can see why they would rather these games to remain in Croke park as its much more beneficial then say a small return for a match in Newbridge or other small venues.
From a Kerry point of view, I dont think Sean Kelly was representing anyone but himself when he made those statements. Our super 8s game v Galway in Croke Park was one of the worst atmospheres in a long time. Does he not think a home and away arrangement, one game in Salthill and the next time we meet to be played in Killarney would be much better.
If we get the dubs in the super 8s a similiar home and away arrangement with them coming to Killarney in the summer would be a massive occasion. But everything will be done to keep them in croker as money talks.
Yes the dubs wont admit but of course the advantage is there for all to see but as you said the association has let themselves down big time." Sean Kelly, representing anyone but himself, lol.
Uimhir.a.3. (Galway) - Posts: 409 - 24/02/2019 11:34:01
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I'm reminded of the scene in the outlaw josey wales "don't p*** down my back and tell me it's raining"
lillyboy (Kildare) - Posts: 429 - 24/02/2019 11:51:36
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Replying To Uimhir.a.3.: "Sean Kelly, representing anyone but himself, lol." Whats funny about that? I dont think you will find many of the general Kerry Gaa public agreeing with his comments.
KY4SAM2015 (Kerry) - Posts: 898 - 24/02/2019 12:59:30
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All this talk about Donegal putting the wrong wording forward is nonsense & a smokescreen for what is a sad episode.
If the alternative motion had been put forward with real neutral venues being used then even fewer games would be played in Croker & that really wouldn't do at all.
God, when I think about how I believed all that nonsense about us all being in it together & about the GAA being the glue that holds the country together & about how being there was the only way to support my county, little did I realise that all they wanted was to pick my pocket as often as possible.
Of course Ireland being Ireland the money men had no difficulty in finding plenty of volunteers to take the short sighted view & toe the management line. After all most county delegates are nothing but pale imitations of the top dogs & would sell their own mothers for a fiver.
After 50 years supporting my county I'm finished with the whole crooked corrupt lot of them & will confine my support to my club from here on in.
MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 24/02/2019 14:08:05
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