Meath Forum

Meath V Tipperary NFL Rd 1

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Replying To Crinigan:  "Ironically you have just summarized rather nicely the issue with Graham Reilly.

All that matters is that the team performs, not Graham Reilly. Graham has the athleticism and talent to score 4/5 nice points from distance against Tipp...but the of those 4/5 points, you can be sure that if he'd given the ball earlier or looked up he'd have maybe given a pass that led to a goal or another player might have scored and brought them into the game. And for those 4/5 points, you can be sure he'll have done too much for each individual score, beating a number of men with herculean effort, and so will be out of the game for the next 5 minutes with his hands on his hips absolutely knackered, making the team down to 14 men essentially.

You're a big fan RD and I respect that. But you have to see the other side that I and a lot of other Meath fans see. I've all the respect in the world for Graham Reilly for the service he gives to Meath but I personally wouldn't have him involved...and I don't think I'm alone on these pages in thinking that."
I agree Crinigan. Again, Im not having a pop at the guy. He's without a doubt one of the best players we've had in the decade from 2010 on to 2020 next year. He has performed in games including Louth/Down in the league last year which kept us in Div.2. Early on in his career he had people like Ward, Bray, Sheridan, Farrell among others around him. Meath between 2007-2012 were genuinly very good at times, and underacheived. He was a new player amongst these lads above and there was far less pressure on him, hence his reputation grew considerably over a few years. Take away the quality of player around him, add a stone of weight (most of which is solid in fairness) and add years of frustration and pressure and its easy to see the situation Reilly is in. He plays a very individualistic running game and it works against certain types of teams of a certain standard. When its not going his way, he seems to get too frustrated and zones out of the game. He doesent defend or track back, and doesent always make good decisions. Its clear he's the designated leader of the team but it doesent suit him, and he isnt anywhere near the level where he can carry a team like a Michael Murphy or a Heslin for Westmeath.

Young_gael (Meath) - Posts: 201 - 22/01/2019 17:26:22    2158933

Link

Ah jaysus the graham reilly debate again ! Lads come o...

grahamc9897 (Meath) - Posts: 1020 - 22/01/2019 18:35:54    2158954

Link

Replying To brian:  "
Replying To royaldunne:  "[quote=brian:  "RD he was nominated for an all star 9 years ago. That's like saying the Spain team that won the world cup or the Cork team that won the all ireland that year could win it now.. He has never showed up against a top calibre team in the championship. You can reference league all ye want but championship is where it matters most and against the best opposition Graham is always found wanting. He's great v anyone at or below our level but if its a better calibre of team he's not at the races. Great players find ways to perform at higher levels unfortunately Graham doesn't have that ability. In 2010 he had stephen bray being the main focus of the attack allowing him extra space and not as much attention."
Since 2010 how many of the top 8 have we played? Who are the top 8? Dubs, Kerry , Tyrone, Monaghan, Mayo, Roscommon, Galway donegal? Haven't played Kerry mayo , Galway has always shown great against them, Monaghan destroyed Meath the twice we met them (league) Roscommon last year played excellent (league) dubs best Meath player last time we played , (papers ratings after match ) including 3 points from play, no complaints v donegal either a couple of years ago , so you see when u look at it the argument doesn't stack up, and is lazy analysis, and to borrow a term. Fake news."
RD people are entitled to their opinion and I admire and respect yours. Don't run down my opinion with your "fake news". Its insulting and personal. There's no need for it.

As you can see in my post in bold i said in the championship. In his most recent championship game he wasn't good enough. We've played Tyrone three times in recent years and he wasn't good enough in any of those games. The last game against Dublin there wasn't one player who played well. Saying he was top rated of a team that was abysmal is a nothing argument. The Donegal game he wasn't very god either. The rest of your comments relate to league matches where teams are not playing their full teams.

Here's another way to judge it. Would Graham get into our 80's or 90's team. For me he would only make the bench and wouldn't be first sub in for either team. Again you can argue the point and I'm sure you'd put him in but for me he's not close."]I have no idea why my posts are not getting through. I'll try again. I want to apologize if you took offense, that was not my intention, merely to point out that graham faces way too much attention from Meath supporters. Again I will say this the Westport fan who sat beside me at intermediate final said if he was from mayo they would have had their all ire by now. I just don't think he is appreciated, and as he enters the autumn of his career, I feel it is only when he is gone that we will see what we missing.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 16200 - 22/01/2019 19:02:04    2158960

Link

Replying To MillerX:  "Question was addressed to RD and no answer yet. It was not about system error but about a "Basic Error" and I just want him to cough up a simple answer."
7 different players. It was answered for you already, surely you don't need it written twice??

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 16200 - 22/01/2019 19:03:31    2158963

Link

Replying To brian:  "
Replying To royaldunne:  "[quote=brian:  "RD he was nominated for an all star 9 years ago. That's like saying the Spain team that won the world cup or the Cork team that won the all ireland that year could win it now.. He has never showed up against a top calibre team in the championship. You can reference league all ye want but championship is where it matters most and against the best opposition Graham is always found wanting. He's great v anyone at or below our level but if its a better calibre of team he's not at the races. Great players find ways to perform at higher levels unfortunately Graham doesn't have that ability. In 2010 he had stephen bray being the main focus of the attack allowing him extra space and not as much attention."
Since 2010 how many of the top 8 have we played? Who are the top 8? Dubs, Kerry , Tyrone, Monaghan, Mayo, Roscommon, Galway donegal? Haven't played Kerry mayo , Galway has always shown great against them, Monaghan destroyed Meath the twice we met them (league) Roscommon last year played excellent (league) dubs best Meath player last time we played , (papers ratings after match ) including 3 points from play, no complaints v donegal either a couple of years ago , so you see when u look at it the argument doesn't stack up, and is lazy analysis, and to borrow a term. Fake news."
RD people are entitled to their opinion and I admire and respect yours. Don't run down my opinion with your "fake news". Its insulting and personal. There's no need for it.

As you can see in my post in bold i said in the championship. In his most recent championship game he wasn't good enough. We've played Tyrone three times in recent years and he wasn't good enough in any of those games. The last game against Dublin there wasn't one player who played well. Saying he was top rated of a team that was abysmal is a nothing argument. The Donegal game he wasn't very god either. The rest of your comments relate to league matches where teams are not playing their full teams.

Here's another way to judge it. Would Graham get into our 80's or 90's team. For me he would only make the bench and wouldn't be first sub in for either team. Again you can argue the point and I'm sure you'd put him in but for me he's not close."]Not getting one post through. I'll try tomorrow when different admin on. I apologize if I offended u. That was not my intention, sincerely.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 16200 - 22/01/2019 19:36:23    2158972

Link

Replying To Barney123:  "Everyone has their opinions on Biggie but surely most people would say he is one of the best 6 forwards CURRENTLY on the panel?"
He is definitely in the best 6 towards in the panel at present and even if we had everyone available he would still start for me purely on his ability. These would be my ideal 6 forwards if we had everyone.

Campion, Newman, O Sullivan
Lenihan, Reilly, McKeever

The issue I have with Biggy is he never shows up against the top teams when we need him most. It's okay to do it against teams in championship who are division 3/4 but he never has done it consistently or against the top teams

UsernameInvalid (Meath) - Posts: 115 - 22/01/2019 19:50:52    2158975

Link

Replying To UsernameInvalid:  "He is definitely in the best 6 towards in the panel at present and even if we had everyone available he would still start for me purely on his ability. These would be my ideal 6 forwards if we had everyone.

Campion, Newman, O Sullivan
Lenihan, Reilly, McKeever

The issue I have with Biggy is he never shows up against the top teams when we need him most. It's okay to do it against teams in championship who are division 3/4 but he never has done it consistently or against the top teams"
What about the teams at our level? Ie division two? That's our level and until when and if we qualify to division one , why must we always try and pretend we better than we are. I think it's quite clear that over last number of years he has been very well equipped to teams at our level. Division two teams.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 16200 - 22/01/2019 20:03:22    2158978

Link

Replying To UsernameInvalid:  "He is definitely in the best 6 towards in the panel at present and even if we had everyone available he would still start for me purely on his ability. These would be my ideal 6 forwards if we had everyone.

Campion, Newman, O Sullivan
Lenihan, Reilly, McKeever

The issue I have with Biggy is he never shows up against the top teams when we need him most. It's okay to do it against teams in championship who are division 3/4 but he never has done it consistently or against the top teams"
Also can I ask why graham is always the one picked out saying he doesn't perform against the bigger teams, what members of current panel actually have. I remember a couple of years ago Monaghan lads on here saying that keoghan was the most overrated player in country as any time they met him he was useless (their words not mine). I would put graham donal and menton as our best players.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 16200 - 22/01/2019 20:09:59    2158979

Link

Anyone want to talk about Meath v Tipperary????

Simply a must win game. No Win, No Excuse

Royalio11 (Meath) - Posts: 721 - 22/01/2019 21:11:55    2158989

Link

Replying To grahamc9897:  "Ah jaysus the graham reilly debate again ! Lads come o..."
Tried to get away from it numerous times.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 16200 - 22/01/2019 21:39:24    2158994

Link

Replying To Royalio11:  "Anyone want to talk about Meath v Tipperary????

Simply a must win game. No Win, No Excuse"
A rarity but I agree with you.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 16200 - 22/01/2019 21:39:49    2158995

Link

Replying To royaldunne:  "7 different players. It was answered for you already, surely you don't need it written twice??"
One player lost possession that led to Tyrone's equaliser. But maybe you don't take in the finer details of a match and the critical moments that lose games, so on this occasion you are excused as it was obviously a question for an honours student.

MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 635 - 22/01/2019 23:49:19    2159024

Link

Any views on team for sunday

Reco (Meath) - Posts: 419 - 23/01/2019 10:27:16    2159053

Link

Any views on team for sunday

Reco (Meath) - Posts: 419 - 23/01/2019 10:27:53    2159054

Link

Replying To Reco:  "Any views on team for sunday"
1 - Dardis
2 - Lavin 3 - McGill 4 - Ryan
5 - J McEntee 6 - Keoghan 7 - Kane
8 - Menton 9 - S McEntee
10 - Campion 11 - Brennan 12 - O'Sullivan
13 - G Reilly 14 - Newman 15 - T O'Reilly

brian (Meath) - Posts: 738 - 23/01/2019 11:05:00    2159060

Link

Replying To brian:  "1 - Dardis
2 - Lavin 3 - McGill 4 - Ryan
5 - J McEntee 6 - Keoghan 7 - Kane
8 - Menton 9 - S McEntee
10 - Campion 11 - Brennan 12 - O'Sullivan
13 - G Reilly 14 - Newman 15 - T O'Reilly"
Near enough to mine. would put Conlon in ahead of tor swapping cos into forward line

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 16200 - 23/01/2019 13:01:25    2159084

Link

Replying To seadog54:  "Reading interview with Liam Kearns in one of todays papers, stated Tipp will be short several regulars for game v Meath, including M Quinlivan. If so,this is an advantage we cannot afford to pass up."
Tipp are missing players, but so are we . Thats life for most teams outside the top division. Daniel Flynn is missing for kildare. A serious talent. Meath best forward, top scorer for the last two years , Donal Lenihan, who led Dunboyne to senior title, has gone travelling for the year. Padraig Mckeever the best club forward in Meath football for the last three year along with lenihan is also not available, as well as Eamon Wallace ( hes gone travelling). Meaths two best midfielders , Harry Rooney ( not available) and Ronan Jones ( college in USA) are also not available. Thats why McEntee had to bring 9 new players onto the Meath panel for the Byrne cup this spring. But thats life for teams in the country as a whole . There is a player drain. Every team in division will be missing players this spring if it follows recent years patterns.

Throughout division 4 3 and 2, players are leaving panels for different reasons at a rate we have never witnessed before in football in recent years. From Cork to Derry from Wexford to Galway, the number of players leaving panels is unprecedented and very worrying. Players rarely left panels 20 or so years ago. But with the introduction of the qualifiers in the early 00s, we saw players from div 3 and div 4 teams walking away when there team was beaten in the championship and their county undertook the qualifer route. The GAA didnt care. But it set a dangerous precident. For the first time ever many players would leave a panel ( many of them went to US for the summer ) in the championship, in the summer. In the last 5 or 6 years we have seen players leaving panels for many reasons in strong traditional counties .

Counties like Cork Down and Meath are all seen a turnover of their panels that were unimaginable 10 years. Its not just division 2, 3 and 4 teams. Some division 1 teams are also facing the same issue. We are now seen players leaving at a level for different reasons we have never seen before in the game nationwide .

Here are stats below to explain the situation.

1 ESRI published a government report on gaa player welfare last year. They found there was a player drain. Over 30% of inter county players who played in 2016 didnt return to play for their county in 2017.
2 Irish Independent also did a study on GAA panels last year. There findings were simlar to ESRI findings. The Irish Indo found that over 30% of inter county players who played in 2017 did not return for 2018 league.

3 Here are some of the stats from Irish Indo study
Below r the number of players who played in the league and championship in 2017 for their county but did not resurface in 2018 league for different reasons


Derry 19 players
Cork 18 players
Wexford 17 players
Offaly 16 players
Meath 16 players
Wicklow 15 players
Antrim 14 players
London 14 players
louth 14 players
Leitrim 13 players
Westmeath 13 players
Sligo 13 players
longford 12 players
Down 12 players
Roscommon 12 players
limerick 12 players
Kerry 11 players
Laois 11 players
Clare 10 players
Cavan 10 players
Galway 10 players
Armagh 10 players
kildare 9 players
Dublin 6 players
Donegal 6 players
Mayo 6 players
Monaghan 5 players
Tyrone 4 players

4 Of the 1040 players nationwide who saw action in the league or championship in 2017, 366 did not played in 2018 league.

3 counties who have the lowest turnover in div 2 3 and 4 were , Fermanagh Tipp and Carlow who all had 7 non returnees last year. The 3 lowest counties in div 2 3 and 4. Fermanagh , Carlow and Tipp last year they had the lowest non returnees in division 3 where Derry lost 19, Offaly lost 16, Wexford lost 17, Westmeath 13, and longford 12 .

5 The breakdown in terms of players leaving each division was
Division 1 66 players
Division 2 103 players
Divsion 3 107 players
Division 4 94 players
Division 2 and 3 are the divisions with the biggest drop off of players.

6 Other stats
The Wicklow manager recently said in every single of the last 5 seasons in each one of those year's, 15 players left the Wicklow panel and didnt retutn the following year. Wicklow have basically lost 15 players in every single one of the last 5 seasons

7 Kevin Walsh said in his first 18 months as Galway manager 52 players turned down the invitation to join the Galway panel.

8 Connerton Longford manager said also in his first 2 years as manager over 50 player turned down the invitation, declined to attend trials and join the panel.

So there really is some sort of player drain , here are the figures for division two teams last year, players who did not return for the league , Anyone have info on players missing this year. Meath are definately over the ten player missing mark again.


Cork 18 players
Meath 16 players
Armagh 10 players
Clare 10 players
kildare 9 players
Donegal 6 players
Fermanagh 7
Tipp 7

Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 871 - 23/01/2019 16:28:10    2159130

Link

Replying To Furlong1949:  "Tipp are missing players, but so are we . Thats life for most teams outside the top division. Daniel Flynn is missing for kildare. A serious talent. Meath best forward, top scorer for the last two years , Donal Lenihan, who led Dunboyne to senior title, has gone travelling for the year. Padraig Mckeever the best club forward in Meath football for the last three year along with lenihan is also not available, as well as Eamon Wallace ( hes gone travelling). Meaths two best midfielders , Harry Rooney ( not available) and Ronan Jones ( college in USA) are also not available. Thats why McEntee had to bring 9 new players onto the Meath panel for the Byrne cup this spring. But thats life for teams in the country as a whole . There is a player drain. Every team in division will be missing players this spring if it follows recent years patterns.

Throughout division 4 3 and 2, players are leaving panels for different reasons at a rate we have never witnessed before in football in recent years. From Cork to Derry from Wexford to Galway, the number of players leaving panels is unprecedented and very worrying. Players rarely left panels 20 or so years ago. But with the introduction of the qualifiers in the early 00s, we saw players from div 3 and div 4 teams walking away when there team was beaten in the championship and their county undertook the qualifer route. The GAA didnt care. But it set a dangerous precident. For the first time ever many players would leave a panel ( many of them went to US for the summer ) in the championship, in the summer. In the last 5 or 6 years we have seen players leaving panels for many reasons in strong traditional counties .

Counties like Cork Down and Meath are all seen a turnover of their panels that were unimaginable 10 years. Its not just division 2, 3 and 4 teams. Some division 1 teams are also facing the same issue. We are now seen players leaving at a level for different reasons we have never seen before in the game nationwide .

Here are stats below to explain the situation.

1 ESRI published a government report on gaa player welfare last year. They found there was a player drain. Over 30% of inter county players who played in 2016 didnt return to play for their county in 2017.
2 Irish Independent also did a study on GAA panels last year. There findings were simlar to ESRI findings. The Irish Indo found that over 30% of inter county players who played in 2017 did not return for 2018 league.

3 Here are some of the stats from Irish Indo study
Below r the number of players who played in the league and championship in 2017 for their county but did not resurface in 2018 league for different reasons


Derry 19 players
Cork 18 players
Wexford 17 players
Offaly 16 players
Meath 16 players
Wicklow 15 players
Antrim 14 players
London 14 players
louth 14 players
Leitrim 13 players
Westmeath 13 players
Sligo 13 players
longford 12 players
Down 12 players
Roscommon 12 players
limerick 12 players
Kerry 11 players
Laois 11 players
Clare 10 players
Cavan 10 players
Galway 10 players
Armagh 10 players
kildare 9 players
Dublin 6 players
Donegal 6 players
Mayo 6 players
Monaghan 5 players
Tyrone 4 players

4 Of the 1040 players nationwide who saw action in the league or championship in 2017, 366 did not played in 2018 league.

3 counties who have the lowest turnover in div 2 3 and 4 were , Fermanagh Tipp and Carlow who all had 7 non returnees last year. The 3 lowest counties in div 2 3 and 4. Fermanagh , Carlow and Tipp last year they had the lowest non returnees in division 3 where Derry lost 19, Offaly lost 16, Wexford lost 17, Westmeath 13, and longford 12 .

5 The breakdown in terms of players leaving each division was
Division 1 66 players
Division 2 103 players
Divsion 3 107 players
Division 4 94 players
Division 2 and 3 are the divisions with the biggest drop off of players.

6 Other stats
The Wicklow manager recently said in every single of the last 5 seasons in each one of those year's, 15 players left the Wicklow panel and didnt retutn the following year. Wicklow have basically lost 15 players in every single one of the last 5 seasons

7 Kevin Walsh said in his first 18 months as Galway manager 52 players turned down the invitation to join the Galway panel.

8 Connerton Longford manager said also in his first 2 years as manager over 50 player turned down the invitation, declined to attend trials and join the panel.

So there really is some sort of player drain , here are the figures for division two teams last year, players who did not return for the league , Anyone have info on players missing this year. Meath are definately over the ten player missing mark again.


Cork 18 players
Meath 16 players
Armagh 10 players
Clare 10 players
kildare 9 players
Donegal 6 players
Fermanagh 7
Tipp 7"
Thanks for that, some interesting info in there. What it tells me is that while all counties are facing player drain, we are one of the worst affected counties. We need to figure out why the likes of Monaghan only lost 5 players and we lost 16! It would be stupid of us to just accept that's the way it is now. Certain counties are doing a lot better at retaining players than we are - why is that? Think about it - if we managed to hold onto just 3 more players per year for the last 3 years, that could be the difference between being in Div 1 / Super 8's and scrapping it out to stay in Div 2 and going out of the championship at the first hurdle. If I was involved with the Co. Board it would be my #1 priority - establish a task force to figure out why we're losing players and what we can do to retain them.

gwanyagudthing (Meath) - Posts: 83 - 23/01/2019 17:47:50    2159138

Link

Replying To gwanyagudthing:  "Thanks for that, some interesting info in there. What it tells me is that while all counties are facing player drain, we are one of the worst affected counties. We need to figure out why the likes of Monaghan only lost 5 players and we lost 16! It would be stupid of us to just accept that's the way it is now. Certain counties are doing a lot better at retaining players than we are - why is that? Think about it - if we managed to hold onto just 3 more players per year for the last 3 years, that could be the difference between being in Div 1 / Super 8's and scrapping it out to stay in Div 2 and going out of the championship at the first hurdle. If I was involved with the Co. Board it would be my #1 priority - establish a task force to figure out why we're losing players and what we can do to retain them."
Thanks for the comments. Regards Monaghan with only 5 players leaving. Why?. I think there is this. The 5 teams that had lowest players missing are in the top 6 or 7 teams in the country or sucessful counties or all in division 1 or all winning provicial titles or all all ireland contenders. Thats why players will stay.

The top 5 lowest counties are
1 Tyrone 4 players didnt return. Tyrone were All Ireland finalist and multiple Ulster winners recently and div 1 team. They are All Ireland contenders
2 Monaghan 5 players didnt return. Monaghan were All Ireland semi finalist and multiple Ulster winners recently and in div 1 for 6 years in a row. They are All Ireland contenders
3 Mayo 6 players didnt return. Mayo were multilple All Ireland finalist in recent years and multiple Connacht winners recently and div 1 team for over 20 years. They are All Ireland contenders
4 Dublin 6 players didnt return. Dublin are multiple All Ireland league and leinster winners in recent years. They have been in divsion 1 for 20 years. They are hot favourites to win the All-Ireland.
5 Donegal 6 players didnt return. They are Ulster champions and have players who won All Irelands and many Ulster titles. They are all Ireland contenders.

So if ur are sucessful , if you are winning provicial titles reaching All-Ireland finals , if you are All Ireland contenders , players stay. It makes sense. If u have a chance of sucess players will stay. If u r a team in div 2 3 or 4 , players leave. Of those 3 divisions of 8 team , last year of those 24 teams, 20 of those teams had high numbers not returning last year . 20 of the 24 teams in div 2 3 and 4 this year they had players not returning in double figures in last years league . ESRI produced this year the biggest and most comprehensive study into player welfare ever , basically a government report done by academics. ESRI called it a player drain with over 30% of players not returning in the following year.

Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 871 - 23/01/2019 18:42:13    2159149

Link

Looking at the fixtures, there's a huge opportunity this year to make a push for promotion.

Last year our first four fixtures were Roscommon (away), Clare (home), Cavan (away) and Tipp (away). In hindsight, it was always going to be difficult to come away with more than 2 points from that run of fixtures. Hence why we found ourselves in a relegation battle.

This year, the first four fixtures are Tipp (home), Donegal (away), Armagh (home) and Cork (away). It will be tough but there's no reason why we shouldn't pick up 6 points out of 8. We should be beating Tipp and Armagh at home. Wouldn't expect anything from Donegal away but you never know. Cork lost all but one of their home fixtures last year. 6 out of 8 would put us in a great position for promotion with 3 winnable fixtures still to come. I could be dreaming but this could be McEntee's last year and if we stay in Div 2 the fixtures won't be as kind next year. It's now or never.

gwanyagudthing (Meath) - Posts: 83 - 24/01/2019 09:59:23    2159228

Link