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O'Byrne Cup

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Well done Westmeath. Men against boys in every sense. The defeat doesn't bother me but the manner of it surprised me. The young Dubs looked like they were at a training session, no intensity, or real effort from any young fella to make an impression it seemed to me. Roll on the league and hopefully a couple of these lads get a look in but I'd struggle to pick out any candidates at the moment.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 3471 - 18/01/2019 21:52:42    2158106

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Congrats to Westmeath, men against boys in more ways then one, no harm great expierence.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 2349 - 18/01/2019 22:39:36    2158110

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Replying To Joxer:  "Well done Westmeath. Men against boys in every sense. The defeat doesn't bother me but the manner of it surprised me. The young Dubs looked like they were at a training session, no intensity, or real effort from any young fella to make an impression it seemed to me. Roll on the league and hopefully a couple of these lads get a look in but I'd struggle to pick out any candidates at the moment."
Thought your centre forward Byrne and corner back 4 were very good but overall our lads did well all through.

jobber (Westmeath) - Posts: 626 - 19/01/2019 00:12:26    2158125

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Well done to Westmeath , they could finish there moves. At the end of the day that's what it's all about putting the ball over the bar or into the net.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 15294 - 19/01/2019 08:10:30    2158139

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Replying To Furlong1949:  "Dublins third team wud beat must teams in leinster.
We have never in the history of gaelic football seen a county with so many inter county players as Dublin have now. In the past even a great All-Ireland winning team would have had 18 , 19 and 20 players of good inter county standard. Dublin currently have 45 to 50 maybe more good quality inter county players. Their first 15 is the best team in the country by a mile. Dublin's second team would be good enough to win leinster reach super 8 and compete in div 2. While a Dublin third team wud compete in div 3 and would probaly win leinster also. Players like Conor McHugh would walk onto any team in the country.

This Dublin third team is going for its second byrne cup in three years. It has reached 2 Byrne cup finals in 3 years. The Bynre cup is now played without Dublin first and second team. It is basically the leinster championship without the All Ireland winning Dublin team. And yet the Dubs are probaly going win 2nd Bynre cup title in 3 years.

In 2017 Dublins third team comprehensivly defeated Kildare first 15 in the Bynre cup final. That kildare team basically , the same 15 went onto be promoted from div 2 in the 2017 by winning their first 5 games and in the summer reached the leinster final. Meath kildare Westmeath Laois Offaly and the rest of leinster could all be beaten by Dublins third team. They all have been. And if Dublin win their 2nd byrne cup in.three years that looks like the reality of the situation. That Dublin third team would definitely compete at div 3 or 4 level and probaly even div 2 level. Dublin could enter 3 teams in the All Ireland championship and the 3 of them cud potentially reach the Super 8s. That team that played Meath tonight could beat every team in leinster and every team in div 3 or 4. Thats how strong the talent pool is in Dublin currently.
If any team wins 2 out of 3 years in competition they r usually considered strong opposition in that competition in any sport. Dublin will probably win 2 out of last 3 Bynre cup with their third team. What does that say about leinster football. What we can say about Dublin is they have a reservoir of football talent we have never witnessed before."
what a load of nonsense. I missed the Meath game last week but was at the final last night. Westmeath well deserved winners, Dublin just weren't up to it!! It really shows how poor Meath are at the minute if that Dublin team beat you. A poor Dublin side, granted they've only played two matches together, but on last nights showing I dont see a whole lot of potential from that team in terms of breaking into the championship panel.

ConnollyDub (Dublin) - Posts: 1708 - 19/01/2019 08:53:07    2158142

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We'll done WM. Better team all night long.
Doubt if too many of that panel will appear in the league.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 1914 - 19/01/2019 09:16:54    2158144

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Well done WM way better team won and should of won by more hopefully that dispels the myth that Dublin have a million inter county players just ready to fill in, take Jack Fenton Kilkenny out of our championship team and we'd struggle to beat the top teams.


I applaud the powers that be for trying to make our game better with the new rules but the hand pass rule is not going to work and the inside mark please get rid of that one as well.

Our biggest problem right now is defensive football and these rules don't change that game plan whatsoever, tbh I don't think there's a rule that will.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9660 - 19/01/2019 10:10:38    2158149

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I could see Sean McMahon stepping up this year to be honest. McDaid also has something to offer the panel.

Others i tipped Smith and Lynch i think may be are a year off, Gavin hasnt done himself any favor in his last two performances.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 2349 - 19/01/2019 10:44:27    2158153

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Replying To Furlong1949:  "People will ask why 9 new players played for Meath on Saturday in McEntees third year. Well this is life in div 2 3 and 4. A handful of sucessful counties retain players each year like Dublin Monaghan Tyrone. But counties in div 2 3 and 4 there is a player drain. The best way to explain this is with a few facts and stats.

1 In 2017 17 players who played in the championship for Derry failed to return to play for Derry in 2018 league. In 2017 16 players who played in championship for Cork did not return to the Cork panel for 2018 league. This is widespread across div 2 3 and 4.

2 ESRI published a government report on gaa player welfare this year. They found there was a player drain. Over 30% of inter county players who played in 2016 didnt return to play for their county in 2017.

3 Irish Independent also did a study on GAA panels. There findings were simlar to ESRI findings. The Irish Indo found that over 30% of inter county players who played in 2017 did not return for 2018 league.

4 The Wicklow manager recently said in every single of the last 5 seasons in each one of those year's, 15 players left the Wicklow panel and didnt retutn the following year. Wicklow have basically lost 15 players in every single one of the last 5 seasons.

5 Kevin Walsh said in his first 18 months as Galway manager 52 players turned down the invitation to join the Galway panel.

6 Connerton Longford manager said also in his first 2 years as manager over 50 player turned down the invitation, declined to attend trials and join the panel.

This is what is happening for so many football teams at moment."
Excellent post furlong.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 8842 - 19/01/2019 11:07:37    2158159

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Replying To clondalkindub:  "Well done WM way better team won and should of won by more hopefully that dispels the myth that Dublin have a million inter county players just ready to fill in, take Jack Fenton Kilkenny out of our championship team and we'd struggle to beat the top teams.


I applaud the powers that be for trying to make our game better with the new rules but the hand pass rule is not going to work and the inside mark please get rid of that one as well.

Our biggest problem right now is defensive football and these rules don't change that game plan whatsoever, tbh I don't think there's a rule that will."
Spot on regarding the rules especially the hand pass one. Having taken in the Donegal Armagh game last weekend it is clear that defensive teams will become more defensive and teams more likely to go backwards than forwards looking to get kick pass in. Needs to go though not against limiting it in certain areas of the field but not the attacking half.

panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 1912 - 19/01/2019 11:30:29    2158166

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Congrats to Westmeath on a deserved win. Pretty enjoyable game for the most part. Aaron Byrne showed some of the ability that made him such a stand out U-21 player and liked the corner back as well. Plus the half forward (don't know name) put in good shift and has potential to push on. I was interested to see Westmeath play esp with Jack Cooney involved given his previous involvement with Donegal. Like what he has done defensively, couple of ropey moments but this was rectified the more the game went on. I really like Bidou Sayeh as a player. Very quick and strong and great man to have running onto a ball. Killian Daly very good playing a sweeping role and Wallace looked solid. The keeper Carberry was generally excellent with his kickouts which is paramount in the modern game. Will Sharry and Heslin come back? They would be serious additions if they did. Heslin obviously one of the best players in the country and Sharry would bring some needed physicality and skill around the middle.

panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 1912 - 19/01/2019 11:41:43    2158168

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McMahon definitely a great prospect, agreed!

ConnollyDub (Dublin) - Posts: 1708 - 19/01/2019 11:42:36    2158169

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Westmeaths mindset seemed to be the big difference from Meath the last day. They didn't looked scared to take the Dubs on. Also Dublin have a number of good players which I reckon 3/4 might make panel this year. A good few played sigerson midweek so maybe tiredness was a factor In the second half

mr.lucky (Meath) - Posts: 7 - 19/01/2019 12:53:44    2158177

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Replying To clondalkindub:  "Well done WM way better team won and should of won by more hopefully that dispels the myth that Dublin have a million inter county players just ready to fill in, take Jack Fenton Kilkenny out of our championship team and we'd struggle to beat the top teams.


I applaud the powers that be for trying to make our game better with the new rules but the hand pass rule is not going to work and the inside mark please get rid of that one as well.

Our biggest problem right now is defensive football and these rules don't change that game plan whatsoever, tbh I don't think there's a rule that will."
I thought the game last night had more kicking than you would usually see in an intercounty game, it was very enjoyable stuff for mid January. There was a great example in the 2nd half of how the handpass rule could help, a Westmeath corner back tried a very risky kick with his weaker foot as the 3 handpasses had been taken and he had nowhere to go - Dublin won the ball back high up the field rather than the corner back being able to turn inside and just lay off an easy handpass. To make the most of the new rule teams need to put more pressure on defences coming out with the ball, they are still working with the old mindset of filtering everyone back as soon as they lose possession.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2277 - 19/01/2019 13:33:37    2158186

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Excellent WM performance

Transition from defense into attack was of a far better standard

Top notch tackling with some very nicely taken scores

Well done

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 19090 - 19/01/2019 14:12:37    2158195

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Replying To Soma:  "I thought the game last night had more kicking than you would usually see in an intercounty game, it was very enjoyable stuff for mid January. There was a great example in the 2nd half of how the handpass rule could help, a Westmeath corner back tried a very risky kick with his weaker foot as the 3 handpasses had been taken and he had nowhere to go - Dublin won the ball back high up the field rather than the corner back being able to turn inside and just lay off an easy handpass. To make the most of the new rule teams need to put more pressure on defences coming out with the ball, they are still working with the old mindset of filtering everyone back as soon as they lose possession."
I thought it was a good game and the 3 hand passes worked in that instance. I also think though that football is just a good game when you have 2 teams playing to win and attack. It's not a problem with the rules but more to do with mentality.

What I think could be a nice tweak would be to restrict hand passing outside the attacking 45.

It encourages teams to use the ball quicker and rewards teams for pushing out.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2447 - 19/01/2019 14:43:23    2158206

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I thought it was a good game and the 3 hand passes worked in that instance. I also think though that football is just a good game when you have 2 teams playing to win and attack. It's not a problem with the rules but more to do with mentality.

What I think could be a nice tweak would be to restrict hand passing outside the attacking 45.

It encourages teams to use the ball quicker and rewards teams for pushing out."
It is but when you have managers saying they are only there to win, not to entertain, then it's hard to see any change in mentality anytime soon.
The easiest of all rules to implement would be a 21 yard free for passing to your own goalkeeper, even last night the very few times there were spells of keep-ball the goalkeeper was involved. Stopping all passes back to your own goalkeeper takes away the easy option when a defence comes under pressure and so teams may be more prepared to push up.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2277 - 19/01/2019 15:57:28    2158219

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Well done to Westmeath on an impressive and fairly straight forward victory. Particularly impressed with their decision making up front and took some really good long range scores.

On our side there wasn't too much to shout about. I think a couple of players on our side showed enough quality to at least challenge for a run out in the league - McMahon, McDaid and possibly Byrne. I'm sure a few more will be in training over the next few weeks and hopefully more can convince Gavin to take a longer look than what we've seen so far.

Other than that I'm not so sure. Any fellow Dubs have any thoughts on Conor McHugh by the way? We are all well aware of his underage and U.21 exploits but he's been involved in the senior squad now for a couple of years and hasn't made any meaningful breakthrough. He must be 24/25 now at this stage so has his chance passed him by? Another head scratcher is Ciaran Reddin who was on the bench again on Friday night. He's 27 and has been knocking about the panel for the O'Byrne cup and National League for a good few years now but is nearly always let go pre championship and doesn't get more than a couple of run outs in the league.

TrueBlue35 (Dublin) - Posts: 100 - 21/01/2019 09:13:48    2158565

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Replying To TrueBlue35:  "Well done to Westmeath on an impressive and fairly straight forward victory. Particularly impressed with their decision making up front and took some really good long range scores.

On our side there wasn't too much to shout about. I think a couple of players on our side showed enough quality to at least challenge for a run out in the league - McMahon, McDaid and possibly Byrne. I'm sure a few more will be in training over the next few weeks and hopefully more can convince Gavin to take a longer look than what we've seen so far.

Other than that I'm not so sure. Any fellow Dubs have any thoughts on Conor McHugh by the way? We are all well aware of his underage and U.21 exploits but he's been involved in the senior squad now for a couple of years and hasn't made any meaningful breakthrough. He must be 24/25 now at this stage so has his chance passed him by? Another head scratcher is Ciaran Reddin who was on the bench again on Friday night. He's 27 and has been knocking about the panel for the O'Byrne cup and National League for a good few years now but is nearly always let go pre championship and doesn't get more than a couple of run outs in the league."
Yeah McHugh is an interesting one. Got a decent run in the league a couple of years ago and looked well placed to push hard for a place in the forward line.

The emergence of O'Callaghan, Howard, Scully as well as Costello's return from injury has pushed him down the pecking order. Basquel and Paddy Small probably ahead of him as well. Add all that to the continued excellence of the more established players and it looks like it is going to be difficult for McHugh to break through if we're honest.

When you see a player as talented as Paddy Andrews, who is still relatively young and has delivered big performances for Dublin in All-Ireland Semi-Finals and Finals, struggling to get game time last summer it kinda puts it into perspective just how difficult it is to break into that forward line.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 12427 - 21/01/2019 12:05:55    2158614

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