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Football All Stars 2018

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Replying To clondalkindub:  "Clarke was dropped by his own team in '16 for an all Ireland replay. Dropping Cluxton isn't an option. Listen all the keepers are great and have had great seasons but not to award the greatest keeper of all time the keeper they all copy now on our way to 4in a row is shocking and laughable."
What has being the greatest keeper of all time and winning 4 in a row got to do with him getting or not getting an all star in 2018? The All Stars are an individual award for players who excel as the standout performer in a certain position for the year past, not on what they have done in previous years. If you were to apply the logic of the greatest player of all time etc then the Gouch should still be getting all stars if he was still on the Kerry panel? Rory Beggan, Stephen Cluxton and Graham Briody were the three best keepers this year and Beggan (Rightly so) was the best of the three of them. My All Star team would have looked like this if I was picking:

1. Rory Beggan
2. Jonny Cooper
3. Padraig Hamsey
4. Ryan Wylie
5. Karl O'Connell
6. James McCarthy (Not his best year but no other standout centre back)
7. Jack McCaffrey (One of Dublins top 5 performers)
8. Brian Fenton (One of Dublins top 5 performers)
9. Michael Murphy (Donegals top performer)
10. Brian Howard (One of Dublins top 5 performers)
11. Ciaran Kilkenny (One of Dublins top 5 performers)
12. Shane Walsh (Absolute joke he didn't get a all star)
13. Ian Burke
14. Conor McManus
15. David Clifford

None of Dublins full forward line (Mannion, Rock, O'Callaghan) were individually brilliant but were effective as a team. The all stars are an individual award so I think that full forward line were individually better than Dublin's. At this stage they should just give the entire 15 to Dublin to stop them winging! For a team that are supposedly so modest and gracious they fairly throw the toys out of the pram when one of there own doesn't get a INDIVIDUAL award! As Gavin said there are no individuals in his team...clearly not going by some the players and managements reactions on social media to a player not getting a award they have won 5 times already (2002, 2006, 2007, 2011 and 2013)

BigJoe14 (Meath) - Posts: 934 - 02/11/2018 15:11:50    2149277

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I don't think any real football person can say Beggan didnt deserve it this year,
The last two years were a farce for the goalkeeper position though. Cluxton 110% deserved it last year and Clarke was only the 3rd best keeper the previous year at best. I'm biased but I would have given it to Comerford who matched Cluxtons kickouts that season. Kickouts are important these days and Clarke is simply no where near the top keepers in that part of the game.
The all stars are and always have been a joke. Whelan is correct...the players that are picked and particularly the players of the year are always the most marketable and ones that are media friendly. You only need to look at the last few players of the years in both codes to see that. Dubs dont tend to get player of the year awards because they do very little media stuff.

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 02/11/2018 15:13:04    2149278

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Replying To MesAmis:  "I think this post just proves how Cluxton is judged to a much higher standard than the likes of Clarke and Beggan to be honest.

Like your 2014 example, the one where Cluxton challenged Murphy and stopped Murphy winning the ball, the ball spills to Rory O'Carroll who drops an easy ball from which Donegal score - you're blaming Cluxton for it in a way no other keeper would be blamed. Same as him supposedly having a bad 1st half last year when he was fine and had a brilliant season. He was poor in 2015 to be honest though. In 2016 I think Clarke was lucky to get it as well but I don't think Cluxton was amazing all year either.

Clarke and Beggan are great keepers and I've no real problem with them winning the awards to be honest but don't really see why Cluxton is being judged so harshly by some when people point out that he's been a little unlucky to lose out on such tight calls year after year."
On your first point, it depends on who is judging them though doesn't it?

I listened to Off the Ball yesterday morning and Gilroy was making every excuse and reason to justify giving it to Cluxton over Beggan. Then they had on an apparent objective journalist (who came across as anything but), who listed out every little mistake Beggan made all year while ignoring all the good things he did, while again focusing all the attention on how Cluxton didn't win, rather than the reasons Beggan did win.

I do agree Cluxton was shafted in other years, but that doesn't mean Beggan should be punished and lose out on his deserved award for 2018.

patk (Monaghan) - Posts: 936 - 02/11/2018 15:48:25    2149281

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Replying To tiobraid:  "I don't think any real football person can say Beggan didnt deserve it this year,
The last two years were a farce for the goalkeeper position though. Cluxton 110% deserved it last year and Clarke was only the 3rd best keeper the previous year at best. I'm biased but I would have given it to Comerford who matched Cluxtons kickouts that season. Kickouts are important these days and Clarke is simply no where near the top keepers in that part of the game.
The all stars are and always have been a joke. Whelan is correct...the players that are picked and particularly the players of the year are always the most marketable and ones that are media friendly. You only need to look at the last few players of the years in both codes to see that. Dubs dont tend to get player of the year awards because they do very little media stuff."
I actually think the Dubs don't get POTY's because their vote often gets split with multiple candidates. The players vote for POTY so the media have nothing to do with it. They'll win it this year though.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 02/11/2018 16:01:07    2149284

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Replying To patk:  "On your first point, it depends on who is judging them though doesn't it?

I listened to Off the Ball yesterday morning and Gilroy was making every excuse and reason to justify giving it to Cluxton over Beggan. Then they had on an apparent objective journalist (who came across as anything but), who listed out every little mistake Beggan made all year while ignoring all the good things he did, while again focusing all the attention on how Cluxton didn't win, rather than the reasons Beggan did win.

I do agree Cluxton was shafted in other years, but that doesn't mean Beggan should be punished and lose out on his deserved award for 2018."
I've no probs with Beggan getting the nod. He had a great year and is a great keeper.

I just don't agree with anyone who says it wasn't just really a toss up between the three nominated this year, and a toss up the previous years too.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13707 - 02/11/2018 16:10:39    2149286

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Replying To patk:  "On your first point, it depends on who is judging them though doesn't it?

I listened to Off the Ball yesterday morning and Gilroy was making every excuse and reason to justify giving it to Cluxton over Beggan. Then they had on an apparent objective journalist (who came across as anything but), who listed out every little mistake Beggan made all year while ignoring all the good things he did, while again focusing all the attention on how Cluxton didn't win, rather than the reasons Beggan did win.

I do agree Cluxton was shafted in other years, but that doesn't mean Beggan should be punished and lose out on his deserved award for 2018."
I heard that programme patk. It was dire stuff . Gilroy was way over the top . He laughed at the 18 points Rory Beggan scored in the championship and said,"sure they were only frees . It's not as if he was getting the ball and soloing down the field and kicking it over the bar". The journalist was Conor McKeon . He was worse . He couldn't even get his facts right . He said "Rory Beggan came off his line prematurely for the goal against Fermanagh". Rory Beggan stayed close to goal too long for the Fermanagh goal. He blamed Beggan for a late goal conceded against Armagh this season . Monaghan didn't play Armagh this season . He said Rory Beggan gave the ball away more often than Cluxton and never provided any stats to substantiate that assertion. None of this is to have a pop at Stephen Cluxton who remains a genuinely great player . It's to illustrate just how awful a lot of the so called analysis of Gaelic football really is .

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 02/11/2018 18:42:59    2149303

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Replying To Greengrass:  "I heard that programme patk. It was dire stuff . Gilroy was way over the top . He laughed at the 18 points Rory Beggan scored in the championship and said,"sure they were only frees . It's not as if he was getting the ball and soloing down the field and kicking it over the bar". The journalist was Conor McKeon . He was worse . He couldn't even get his facts right . He said "Rory Beggan came off his line prematurely for the goal against Fermanagh". Rory Beggan stayed close to goal too long for the Fermanagh goal. He blamed Beggan for a late goal conceded against Armagh this season . Monaghan didn't play Armagh this season . He said Rory Beggan gave the ball away more often than Cluxton and never provided any stats to substantiate that assertion. None of this is to have a pop at Stephen Cluxton who remains a genuinely great player . It's to illustrate just how awful a lot of the so called analysis of Gaelic football really is ."
Yeah he threw out that thing about Beggan giving the ball away without backing it up at all. Maybe statistically he did, but it was made sound like Beggan had a 50% success ratio. For reference, in the Tyrone game(which is the game he's always being criticised for) he found his man with something like 22 of 24 kickouts. Sure, he had a rush of blood at the very end, but it wasn't his fault that we didn't get to the final, he more than did his job in the semi and did it very well. If the rest of the team played as well as Beggan that day, it would have been a different story.

patk (Monaghan) - Posts: 936 - 02/11/2018 19:23:02    2149308

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Well done again David Clifford, young player of the year and there was some stiff opposition.
What a sensational start to his senior Kerry career and I hope it's only the beginning :D

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 02/11/2018 19:28:21    2149309

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Well done to Fenton. I remember seeing him in his 2nd/3rd game for Dublin and telling friends he's going to be one of the great midfielders. They all laughed at me but since his debut I'd argue he has been the best player in the country and possibly almost the best midfielder of all time already. And comes across as a really grounded genuine lad as well

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 02/11/2018 20:39:23    2149318

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Replying To TheHermit:  "Well done again David Clifford, young player of the year and there was some stiff opposition.
What a sensational start to his senior Kerry career and I hope it's only the beginning :D"
It seems unless there are three Dubs nominated they will not win. When you perform in semi and final, no matter how good your team, against the 2nd and 3rd
3rd best teams in Ireland, yet you are not good enough.

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 02/11/2018 20:39:30    2149319

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Replying To TheHermit:  "Well done again David Clifford, young player of the year and there was some stiff opposition.
What a sensational start to his senior Kerry career and I hope it's only the beginning :D"
Hopefully it's only the beginning of getting regularly knocked out of the Super 8's alright ;)

Nah only messing. Warm Congrats to the young man.

Well deserved. We'll just have to soldier on with Howard... sure what can you do but try!

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 02/11/2018 20:41:17    2149320

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Replying To BigJoe14:  "What has being the greatest keeper of all time and winning 4 in a row got to do with him getting or not getting an all star in 2018? The All Stars are an individual award for players who excel as the standout performer in a certain position for the year past, not on what they have done in previous years. If you were to apply the logic of the greatest player of all time etc then the Gouch should still be getting all stars if he was still on the Kerry panel? Rory Beggan, Stephen Cluxton and Graham Briody were the three best keepers this year and Beggan (Rightly so) was the best of the three of them. My All Star team would have looked like this if I was picking:

1. Rory Beggan
2. Jonny Cooper
3. Padraig Hamsey
4. Ryan Wylie
5. Karl O'Connell
6. James McCarthy (Not his best year but no other standout centre back)
7. Jack McCaffrey (One of Dublins top 5 performers)
8. Brian Fenton (One of Dublins top 5 performers)
9. Michael Murphy (Donegals top performer)
10. Brian Howard (One of Dublins top 5 performers)
11. Ciaran Kilkenny (One of Dublins top 5 performers)
12. Shane Walsh (Absolute joke he didn't get a all star)
13. Ian Burke
14. Conor McManus
15. David Clifford

None of Dublins full forward line (Mannion, Rock, O'Callaghan) were individually brilliant but were effective as a team. The all stars are an individual award so I think that full forward line were individually better than Dublin's. At this stage they should just give the entire 15 to Dublin to stop them winging! For a team that are supposedly so modest and gracious they fairly throw the toys out of the pram when one of there own doesn't get a INDIVIDUAL award! As Gavin said there are no individuals in his team...clearly not going by some the players and managements reactions on social media to a player not getting a award they have won 5 times already (2002, 2006, 2007, 2011 and 2013)"
Who said what on social media? Spill?

lilylanger (Kildare) - Posts: 758 - 02/11/2018 20:46:20    2149322

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Replying To TheHermit:  "Well done again David Clifford, young player of the year and there was some stiff opposition.
What a sensational start to his senior Kerry career and I hope it's only the beginning :D"
well done David Clifford, but Howard, can't wait to see him again in 2019, athletic, powerful, timing, reading of the game, they all have that, but then add in, unreal pace and incredible footwork at pace, so far this is the only player I know that a coach would say, "take the ball into the blanket defence" because he has the the best feet in the game to bring him through, no one can mark Howard.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 676 - 02/11/2018 20:48:12    2149323

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Replying To TheHermit:  "Well done again David Clifford, young player of the year and there was some stiff opposition.
What a sensational start to his senior Kerry career and I hope it's only the beginning :D"
It seems unless there are three Dubs nominated they will not win. When you perform in semi and final, no matter how good your team, against the 2nd and 3rd
3rd best teams in Ireland, yet you are not good enough.

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 02/11/2018 20:50:47    2149324

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Replying To witnof:  "It seems unless there are three Dubs nominated they will not win. When you perform in semi and final, no matter how good your team, against the 2nd and 3rd
3rd best teams in Ireland, yet you are not good enough."
I don't thinks it's a case of Howard not being good enough they are the two best young footballers in the country but only one could get the award.

I don't think anybody could begrudge David his award he put up big scores in games while living off scraps as his team was playing so poorly. His score to attempt ratio was completely insane in the Super 8s. Howard was coming in to a much more favourable situation. I wouldn't have any issue if he had won it though.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 02/11/2018 21:41:55    2149330

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Replying To witnof:  "It seems unless there are three Dubs nominated they will not win. When you perform in semi and final, no matter how good your team, against the 2nd and 3rd
3rd best teams in Ireland, yet you are not good enough."
Christ!

I'd have given it to Howard and have said so in posts as far back as the last game of the super 8s.

But again we have a comment disrespecting a worthy winner.

Not your choice or mine but it was that of their fellow players.

I guess 4 in a row and player of the year isn't enough for some fans, eh!?

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5012 - 02/11/2018 22:07:43    2149336

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "I don't thinks it's a case of Howard not being good enough they are the two best young footballers in the country but only one could get the award.

I don't think anybody could begrudge David his award he put up big scores in games while living off scraps as his team was playing so poorly. His score to attempt ratio was completely insane in the Super 8s. Howard was coming in to a much more favourable situation. I wouldn't have any issue if he had won it though."
No problem with your DC getting the award, just haven't seen anyone to match the gifts and energy Brian Howard brings to the game, this man just has it all defending, attacking, scoring and incredible fielding, we are lucky to have had some great players these last few years but this man is different class.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 676 - 02/11/2018 22:11:44    2149337

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Replying To sligo joe:  "No problem with your DC getting the award, just haven't seen anyone to match the gifts and energy Brian Howard brings to the game, this man just has it all defending, attacking, scoring and incredible fielding, we are lucky to have had some great players these last few years but this man is different class."
He is, and would have won it any other year but ran in to a sensational player in 2018 here are David's stats from the Super 8's I posted them on the Kerry page as well they are off the chart and the reason why his peers voted for him the lad is simply unbelievable

0-02 from 2 on frees
4-00 from 4 goal attempts
0-12 from 17 (71%) point attempts

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 02/11/2018 22:43:14    2149342

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Getting a bit tired hearing complaints about Cluxton not getting picked in different years. Cluxton was instrumental in changing the way Gaelic football was played regarding kickouts (he executed it perfectly but I wonder was the idea of picking out a player who made a run for the kickouts his/ one of the outfield players or one of the management teams). But that was many years ago and had the kicking tee for kickouts come in earlier some other keeper would have probably done it earlier (nobody foresaw what a big change bringing in the kicking tee would make to kickouts in Gaelic football, I remember a club player who half the time miss hit kickouts before the tee came in after its introduction first had a booming kick and then as the way kickouts were evolved he was able to accurately kick the ball to teammates). Truth is Cluxton is by far the most well known goalkeeper ever because Dublin were the first team to adopt a kickouts strategy. Because he is so well known people every year assume he is the best.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1346 - 03/11/2018 08:02:49    2149359

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "He is, and would have won it any other year but ran in to a sensational player in 2018 here are David's stats from the Super 8's I posted them on the Kerry page as well they are off the chart and the reason why his peers voted for him the lad is simply unbelievable

0-02 from 2 on frees
4-00 from 4 goal attempts
0-12 from 17 (71%) point attempts"
What are his stats like for the other games he played ? I don't think he just played Super 8 ?

dubshurling7 (Dublin) - Posts: 1017 - 03/11/2018 09:25:54    2149364

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