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Replying To witnof: "Lets go through some points.
1. Frees
Cluxton has not won an All-Star since Dean Rock started taking the frees!
Remember the abuse Cluxton got for free taking? People talking about bringing in rules to put a clock on each free to stop keepers taking them etc. When Cluxton stopped taking frees, it was, considered an art form when other keepers did it.
The fact Beggan takes the frees means there is a flaw in the Monaghan team (no long range taker). Dublin plugged this flaw but Cluxton is considered less for it.
2. Long range kick outs.
People seem to forget Cluxton in the Semi aginst Kerry for Kevin Mc's goal, first kick out against Tryone last year, the kick out to Jack Mc this year to kick start us in the Final. Cluxton can kick it as long and as accruate as Beggan.....so people don't push up so he goes short. Cluxton's long kick outs have turned games.
3. Pressure
Since his mistakes are so rare Cluxton's are amplified. But when the real pressure is on, take '16 and '17 finals, he misses nothing. The guy is at nearly 100% kick out possession in tight games in big finals. its mad. People say it is becuase he goes short, NO! It is becuase teams back off as they prefer to try and force Dublin to play it up 90Ms rather than let Cluxtion open them up with one of his long kick outs.
4. Leadership
This is hard to see and measure especially with Cluxton as he is no a public speaker. But he runs that defense and he is the team leader that players follow. Hard to put a weight on this but with so many stars in a dressing room and they respect one man like they do says a lot. Yes he is a driven headbanger but all good goalkeepers are not normal.
Every Dublin game analysis is given over to Cluxton and how he is the launch pad for every Dublin attack, how if you can't close him down your doomed............................yet he is not good enough to win an All-Star.
Dubs are 'clowns' for even suggesting he should get it etc.
The silver lining for Dublin? We know he has been disrespected in not getting an All-Star since 2013, the players around him know he has been disrepected and so he will not be allowed retire and they will go an win a 5 in a row for him and, as Captain, his legendary status will be forever cemented.
Then when he wins the All-Star he won't be arsed turning up :) :) :)" Your first point about frees is nonsense . Monaghan do have a long range freetaker. Conor McManus hits them . He takes frees up to 50 yards out . Dublin have not plugged that gap . They don't shoot frees from 50 yards plus . Beggan does . He is the best long range freetaker in the game . The fact that he hits frees from huge distances is not a flaw in Monaghan's game. It is an extra side to their game that no one else has . He scored 26 points this season. 18 of those were in the championship .
Kickouts.
They are both brilliant at restarting games . They are the best in the country at it . Cluxton and the Dublin management and players initiated this Monaghan have improved it . Beggan has great variety in his kick outs . Remember the boomer over the defence to Fintan Kelly v Kerry or the 60 yard kick he hit to Shane Carey that never went more than 6 feet off the ground . Look at the 80 yard floater he hit to Ryan McMenamin who never broke stride and caught it on the run .
Pressure
Beggan is ten years younger than Cluxton and a lot less experienced yet the bigger the games this year the better he got . His kick outs in his last two games were phenomenal . A direct comparison is the games against Tyrone in Croker . According to stats that have been publicised Cluxton hit 31 kick outs v Tyrone . 29 were retained . 23 went short and all were retained . 8 went long . 6 were won and 2 were lost . Both of those that were lost were scored by Tyrone . Against Tyrone in Croker Monaghan hit 24 kick outs . 22 were retained . Baggan hit 11 short . 10 were retained . Tyrone didn't score the one that was lost . He hit 13 long . 12 were retained and 1 was lost . The one that was lost was not scored . In that game Beggan hit a far greater proportion of his kick outs long than Cluxton . Monaghan retained 92% of their long kick outs . Dublin retained 75% of their long kick outs yet Cluxton hit a far smaller proportion of his kick outs long . People are castigating Rory Beggan for his attempt at goal in the last seconds of the Tyrone game and using that as a stick to beat him . I remember a less experienced Stephen Cluxton getting himself sent off in a pressure cooker championship game against Armagh . The bigger the game this year the better Beggan got . Some of the so called mistakes that are being thrown at Beggan are laughable . The goal conceded v Kerry is one . The goal conceded v Tyrone in Omagh is an even more laughable assertion . He wasn't to blame for either of them .
Leadership . I think it is fair to say that both are exceptionally important to their respective teams . On balance and there has been a lot of over the top commentary on this Beggan brought more to the table this year and deserves his All Star . Cluxton should have got something between 2014-17 but this year deservedly belonged to Beggan .
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 02/11/2018 10:38:26
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Ask me who won the All star goalkeeper award in 2010, and I wouldn't have a breeze without checking it.
Ask me who won the All Ireland that year and ill instantly tell you Cork won it.
Ask how many times Stephen Cluxton has won an all star in his career, id guess 4 or 5.
Ask me how many All Irelands he has won, ill tell you it was 6
Ask me how many all Irelands pat spillane won, 8. All stars ? pffft.. fecked if I know.
Catch my drift ?
Im sure Stephen will sit at home content enough with his lot for 2018.
all star shmall star.. Who *really* cares about them?
Token gestures all over the show and they'll be forgotten about fairly rapid
The mass hysteria is always gas,
waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 02/11/2018 10:38:54
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Replying To Malonemagic: "No way did Cluxton deserve one.
Beggan and Brody were way more influential.
The facts are re Cluxton:
Conceded 2 goals v Wicklow
Injured early v longford
Didn't play v laois or Donegal.
Conceded 2 goals to roscommon
Conceded two goals v Galway, 1 a howler
Conceded goal in final
Brody s shot stopping and beggan s free taking were miles ahead." I think the keeper one was always going to be a hot topic. Most people just speak about Beggan and Cluxton. I saw Brody once when we played Laois in Navan in R4. It was the finest display of shot stopping and basics of goalkeeping I had seen at a inter county game. The pressure from Monaghan, especially in the second half was unreal and this guy shut it all out. He was superb. At least nobody can argue with the three nominees, in that there is no doubt its where they play all the time!
seanfinn (Monaghan) - Posts: 360 - 02/11/2018 10:40:52
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Replying To witnof: "Lets go through some points.
1. Frees
Cluxton has not won an All-Star since Dean Rock started taking the frees!
Remember the abuse Cluxton got for free taking? People talking about bringing in rules to put a clock on each free to stop keepers taking them etc. When Cluxton stopped taking frees, it was, considered an art form when other keepers did it.
The fact Beggan takes the frees means there is a flaw in the Monaghan team (no long range taker). Dublin plugged this flaw but Cluxton is considered less for it.
2. Long range kick outs.
People seem to forget Cluxton in the Semi aginst Kerry for Kevin Mc's goal, first kick out against Tryone last year, the kick out to Jack Mc this year to kick start us in the Final. Cluxton can kick it as long and as accruate as Beggan.....so people don't push up so he goes short. Cluxton's long kick outs have turned games.
3. Pressure
Since his mistakes are so rare Cluxton's are amplified. But when the real pressure is on, take '16 and '17 finals, he misses nothing. The guy is at nearly 100% kick out possession in tight games in big finals. its mad. People say it is becuase he goes short, NO! It is becuase teams back off as they prefer to try and force Dublin to play it up 90Ms rather than let Cluxtion open them up with one of his long kick outs.
4. Leadership
This is hard to see and measure especially with Cluxton as he is no a public speaker. But he runs that defense and he is the team leader that players follow. Hard to put a weight on this but with so many stars in a dressing room and they respect one man like they do says a lot. Yes he is a driven headbanger but all good goalkeepers are not normal.
Every Dublin game analysis is given over to Cluxton and how he is the launch pad for every Dublin attack, how if you can't close him down your doomed............................yet he is not good enough to win an All-Star.
Dubs are 'clowns' for even suggesting he should get it etc.
The silver lining for Dublin? We know he has been disrespected in not getting an All-Star since 2013, the players around him know he has been disrepected and so he will not be allowed retire and they will go an win a 5 in a row for him and, as Captain, his legendary status will be forever cemented.
Then when he wins the All-Star he won't be arsed turning up :) :) :)" Yawn.
Also McManus takes long range frees.
seanfinn (Monaghan) - Posts: 360 - 02/11/2018 10:44:54
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At the end of the day I doubt he gives a hoot, he has five Celtic Crosses at home and will never have to but a pint in Dublin in his lifetime.
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 831 - 02/11/2018 09:50:41 2149225
He has 6 Celtic Crosses at home Gerry! ;)
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13707 - 02/11/2018 10:52:44
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Replying To GeniusGerry: "I know. I'd agree it's crazy, he should probably have 2-3 minimum since 2013.
I understand where you are coming from with his mistakes being highlighted more but his profile works both ways. Would he be considered the best ever if he happened to be born in Cork or Monaghan? I very much doubt it. People will look for reasons to have a pop at big players, not long ago it was Gooch who didn't show up on big days etc. The goalkeeper position is particularly unforgiving though.
At the end of the day I doubt he gives a hoot, he has five Celtic Crosses at home and will never have to but a pint in Dublin in his lifetime." I agree with you.
Although one quick correction.
He has 6
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 02/11/2018 11:00:22
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Replying To witnof: "Lets go through some points.
1. Frees
Cluxton has not won an All-Star since Dean Rock started taking the frees!
Remember the abuse Cluxton got for free taking? People talking about bringing in rules to put a clock on each free to stop keepers taking them etc. When Cluxton stopped taking frees, it was, considered an art form when other keepers did it.
The fact Beggan takes the frees means there is a flaw in the Monaghan team (no long range taker). Dublin plugged this flaw but Cluxton is considered less for it.
2. Long range kick outs.
People seem to forget Cluxton in the Semi aginst Kerry for Kevin Mc's goal, first kick out against Tryone last year, the kick out to Jack Mc this year to kick start us in the Final. Cluxton can kick it as long and as accruate as Beggan.....so people don't push up so he goes short. Cluxton's long kick outs have turned games.
3. Pressure
Since his mistakes are so rare Cluxton's are amplified. But when the real pressure is on, take '16 and '17 finals, he misses nothing. The guy is at nearly 100% kick out possession in tight games in big finals. its mad. People say it is becuase he goes short, NO! It is becuase teams back off as they prefer to try and force Dublin to play it up 90Ms rather than let Cluxtion open them up with one of his long kick outs.
4. Leadership
This is hard to see and measure especially with Cluxton as he is no a public speaker. But he runs that defense and he is the team leader that players follow. Hard to put a weight on this but with so many stars in a dressing room and they respect one man like they do says a lot. Yes he is a driven headbanger but all good goalkeepers are not normal.
Every Dublin game analysis is given over to Cluxton and how he is the launch pad for every Dublin attack, how if you can't close him down your doomed............................yet he is not good enough to win an All-Star.
Dubs are 'clowns' for even suggesting he should get it etc.
The silver lining for Dublin? We know he has been disrespected in not getting an All-Star since 2013, the players around him know he has been disrepected and so he will not be allowed retire and they will go an win a 5 in a row for him and, as Captain, his legendary status will be forever cemented.
Then when he wins the All-Star he won't be arsed turning up :) :) :)" On your first point, that's an extremely flawed argument. There's a flaw in the Monaghan team in that we don't have a long range free taker? McManus is extremely accurate from all angles and distances up to near 50m out - he regularly slots over 45s for the club - but when you've a weapon like Beggan in your ranks, why on earth would you not use that?! By long range, do you mean 60m? In that case, no we don't have any other player capable of regularly scoring from that length, but name me a county who does!
patk (Monaghan) - Posts: 936 - 02/11/2018 11:06:43
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This thread is hugely disrespectful to Rory Beggan.
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5012 - 02/11/2018 11:15:19
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Replying To sligo joe: "First up both Beggan and Cluxton had really good years and any awards either of them get are well deserved. What surprises me is the comment by Des Cahill this morning that the feedback he received was that the support of the journalists who selected the All-Stars was almost unanimous in favour of Beggan. When you consider that the pundits (ex-players) on the RTE panel on the night of the All-Ireland went for Cluxton on their team of the year and most ex-players that published their favoured selections in the papers also went for Cluxton, then if what Des Cahill said is correct i.e that there was virtually no support for Cluxton among the selection committee (journalists), it surely begs the question is Cluxton's custom of ignoring the media an issue when it comes to All-Star selection.
Regarding the selection of Cavanagh at full back, when at best he could be described as a holding mid-fielder raises issues also, though this issue is not new when you consider Michael Murphy previously being selected at full-forward, Murphy wore the 14 jersey but seldom ventured beyond the opposition 45m line." Yes because Beggan is such a media darling..... so that logic really stacks up
greysoil (Monaghan) - Posts: 965 - 02/11/2018 11:17:16
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Replying To waynoI: "Ask me who won the All star goalkeeper award in 2010, and I wouldn't have a breeze without checking it.
Ask me who won the All Ireland that year and ill instantly tell you Cork won it.
Ask how many times Stephen Cluxton has won an all star in his career, id guess 4 or 5.
Ask me how many All Irelands he has won, ill tell you it was 6
Ask me how many all Irelands pat spillane won, 8. All stars ? pffft.. fecked if I know.
Catch my drift ?
Im sure Stephen will sit at home content enough with his lot for 2018.
all star shmall star.. Who *really* cares about them?
Token gestures all over the show and they'll be forgotten about fairly rapid
The mass hysteria is always gas," Yawn !!! The classic, "I couldn't be bothered "back track . You were bothered enough to compose a long, detailed post articulating a case for Stephen Cluxton not so long ago . As for hysteria have a look at some of the commentary in favour of Stephen Cluxton in the media .
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 02/11/2018 11:30:50
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Replying To cavanman47: "This thread is hugely disrespectful to Rory Beggan." bless him.
waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 02/11/2018 11:32:30
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Replying To cavanman47: "This thread is hugely disrespectful to Rory Beggan." Problem is Beggan is bearing the brunt of the sins of previous all star selections when cluxton was wrongly ignored. Based on 2018 its no contest Beggan had the most impact as a goalkeeper this year. Good for us also he will only improve being still in mid 20s.
seanie08 (Monaghan) - Posts: 1799 - 02/11/2018 12:12:19
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Replying To MesAmis: "At the end of the day I doubt he gives a hoot, he has five Celtic Crosses at home and will never have to but a pint in Dublin in his lifetime.
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 831 - 02/11/2018 09:50:41 2149225
He has 6 Celtic Crosses at home Gerry! ;)" I'm losing count at this stage !!!
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 02/11/2018 12:57:52
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Same aul story every year with this bloody thing.
Everyone can make a case for someone else getting the nod. Makes deck all difference at the end of the day.
It's journalists again who are picking the players and most of them are idle bs specialists.
catch22 (USA) - Posts: 2148 - 02/11/2018 13:00:41
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Replying To gotmilk: "Is James Kavanagh still playing football? Crazy they can pick a forward and put him at full back like that." Yes James Kavanagh is still playing club football . He moved from Kildare to Galway and plays club football down there .
dubshurling7 (Dublin) - Posts: 1017 - 02/11/2018 13:06:43
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Replying To seanie08: "Problem is Beggan is bearing the brunt of the sins of previous all star selections when cluxton was wrongly ignored. Based on 2018 its no contest Beggan had the most impact as a goalkeeper this year. Good for us also he will only improve being still in mid 20s." I don't know what year he was wrongly ignored tho!
2014 Durcan lost Donegal the all Ireland but cluxton lost Dublin the semi final. Should never have tried to challenge Michael Murphy under a high ball!
2015 Little between himself and Kiely but there was very little argument at the time on that one.
2016 People are using Clarke being dropped as a reason why he shouldn't have got one. But he wasn't dropped for playing badly, and if anything Mayo probably would have won had he not been dropped so that only strengthens his case!
2017 Clarke dragged Mayo through games with some of his saves. Dublin's only tight game was the final and Cluxton had a poor first half.
Taking each year in isolation is the correct way to select an all star team and I can't see a strong enough argument for him getting one in any of the past 4 years.
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5012 - 02/11/2018 13:29:08
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Replying To cavanman47: "I don't know what year he was wrongly ignored tho!
2014 Durcan lost Donegal the all Ireland but cluxton lost Dublin the semi final. Should never have tried to challenge Michael Murphy under a high ball!
2015 Little between himself and Kiely but there was very little argument at the time on that one.
2016 People are using Clarke being dropped as a reason why he shouldn't have got one. But he wasn't dropped for playing badly, and if anything Mayo probably would have won had he not been dropped so that only strengthens his case!
2017 Clarke dragged Mayo through games with some of his saves. Dublin's only tight game was the final and Cluxton had a poor first half.
Taking each year in isolation is the correct way to select an all star team and I can't see a strong enough argument for him getting one in any of the past 4 years." I think this post just proves how Cluxton is judged to a much higher standard than the likes of Clarke and Beggan to be honest.
Like your 2014 example, the one where Cluxton challenged Murphy and stopped Murphy winning the ball, the ball spills to Rory O'Carroll who drops an easy ball from which Donegal score - you're blaming Cluxton for it in a way no other keeper would be blamed. Same as him supposedly having a bad 1st half last year when he was fine and had a brilliant season. He was poor in 2015 to be honest though. In 2016 I think Clarke was lucky to get it as well but I don't think Cluxton was amazing all year either.
Clarke and Beggan are great keepers and I've no real problem with them winning the awards to be honest but don't really see why Cluxton is being judged so harshly by some when people point out that he's been a little unlucky to lose out on such tight calls year after year.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13707 - 02/11/2018 14:36:13
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I don't think Cluxton deserved it this year.
Beggan is the right choice. I've zero doubts on it. Correct call.
As a Dub fan I'm still happy with Cluxton's contributions in 2018 and he had an excellent final. He was unlucky with injury but he still contributed hugely to a treble winning, 4 in a row season. Captain, leader, influencer, contributor. Also fair play to Evan Comerford who slotted right in and played well.
That's all I care about and I'm pretty sure that's all he (Cluxton) cares about. The fella already has 5 All Stars for flip sake.. he did his part and contributed to the cause with distinction.
Warm congratulations to Rory Beggan on a deserved accolade off the back of a very good season.
I'm a fan of this Monaghan team and it was good to see them pick up the 2nd largest tally of All Star places.
Well done to them and I hope they come back stronger in 2019.
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 02/11/2018 14:38:35
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Also you're equating Cluxton's supposed mistake in 2014 (not really a mistake) in a game that Dublin were well beaten in to being the same as Durcan's massive error in the final in a 3 point game.
C'mon man the obviousness of your extra hard view on Cluxton is blatant.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13707 - 02/11/2018 14:41:05
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Replying To jimbodub: "I don't think Cluxton deserved it this year.
Beggan is the right choice. I've zero doubts on it. Correct call.
As a Dub fan I'm still happy with Cluxton's contributions in 2018 and he had an excellent final. He was unlucky with injury but he still contributed hugely to a treble winning, 4 in a row season. Captain, leader, influencer, contributor. Also fair play to Evan Comerford who slotted right in and played well.
That's all I care about and I'm pretty sure that's all he (Cluxton) cares about. The fella already has 5 All Stars for flip sake.. he did his part and contributed to the cause with distinction.
Warm congratulations to Rory Beggan on a deserved accolade off the back of a very good season.
I'm a fan of this Monaghan team and it was good to see them pick up the 2nd largest tally of All Star places.
Well done to them and I hope they come back stronger in 2019." Very well said Jimbo. Let that be the definitive word on this thread .
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 02/11/2018 15:02:46
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