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Replying To omahant: "The game is broken.
I'd go with an Altered Brolly Zone - but to accomodate policing at the Junior Club league games, the zone boundary needs to be elevarlted off the grass a little for greater visibility - use a 'rope' similar to a cricket boundary - but in flurescent pink/yellow.
I'll get no responses to this." It is not broken.
Definitely not.
It needs improvement and a push in the right direction again but some of the stuff on here at times is a bit ridiculous.
Subtle changes in the game can have large effects without altering the game drastically.
Soccer in the mid to late 2000s was in a bad spot. You'd Greece winning the Euros, Italy winning the World Cup. Mourinho's Chelsea and then Inter Milan playing a defense first then counter attack reactive style. They loosen up the offside rule to state that a player had to be interfering with play to be off.
It stretched the game and things got more attack focused. The game is now being played at a level that has never been higher, positive and more complex than it is now. Subtle change, huge effect.
I readily admit that this was the worst football season in my memory.
There are green shoots of recovery in football though. Donegal and Tyrone both had more attacking styles. Monaghan Kerry, Kildare Galway, Kildare Mayo were all ding dong battles.
Seeing more of Dublin's keep ball style will force any team with serious aspirations of figuring out how to properly press to win the ball back.
Some of Dublin, Mayo, Kerry finals and semifinals of the last 5 years show the game is not broken.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4210 - 07/10/2018 19:25:11
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Replying To Whammo86: "It is not broken.
Definitely not.
It needs improvement and a push in the right direction again but some of the stuff on here at times is a bit ridiculous.
Subtle changes in the game can have large effects without altering the game drastically.
Soccer in the mid to late 2000s was in a bad spot. You'd Greece winning the Euros, Italy winning the World Cup. Mourinho's Chelsea and then Inter Milan playing a defense first then counter attack reactive style. They loosen up the offside rule to state that a player had to be interfering with play to be off.
It stretched the game and things got more attack focused. The game is now being played at a level that has never been higher, positive and more complex than it is now. Subtle change, huge effect.
I readily admit that this was the worst football season in my memory.
There are green shoots of recovery in football though. Donegal and Tyrone both had more attacking styles. Monaghan Kerry, Kildare Galway, Kildare Mayo were all ding dong battles.
Seeing more of Dublin's keep ball style will force any team with serious aspirations of figuring out how to properly press to win the ball back.
Some of Dublin, Mayo, Kerry finals and semifinals of the last 5 years show the game is not broken." Well said . Football is not broken . Football is unfortunate that the bulk of the analysts out there are part of what is effectively a screeching commentariat. They are screeching ever louder to be heard . You have O Rourke with his references to "muck", Spillane with his comments about football being a "mongrel game" and Tommy Carr with his description of football as being "horrendous"". That is not analysis . You then have Joe Brolly with his regular apocalyptic polemics. . Football is not broken. Yes the spectacle has declined but the potential within the current framework for compelling sport is still there . Monaghan and Tyrone in Ulster, Galway Kildare, Kildare Mayo, Monaghan Kerry and the All Ireland Final of 2017 were all cracking contests. What is being proposed as a package is crazy . As you said Whammo minimal change maximum impact .
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 07/10/2018 22:16:00
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Replying To Whammo86: "It is not broken.
Definitely not.
It needs improvement and a push in the right direction again but some of the stuff on here at times is a bit ridiculous.
Subtle changes in the game can have large effects without altering the game drastically.
Soccer in the mid to late 2000s was in a bad spot. You'd Greece winning the Euros, Italy winning the World Cup. Mourinho's Chelsea and then Inter Milan playing a defense first then counter attack reactive style. They loosen up the offside rule to state that a player had to be interfering with play to be off.
It stretched the game and things got more attack focused. The game is now being played at a level that has never been higher, positive and more complex than it is now. Subtle change, huge effect.
I readily admit that this was the worst football season in my memory.
There are green shoots of recovery in football though. Donegal and Tyrone both had more attacking styles. Monaghan Kerry, Kildare Galway, Kildare Mayo were all ding dong battles.
Seeing more of Dublin's keep ball style will force any team with serious aspirations of figuring out how to properly press to win the ball back.
Some of Dublin, Mayo, Kerry finals and semifinals of the last 5 years show the game is not broken." I remember Mourinho's first stint at Chelsea - it was boring - grinding out those low scoring wins - then when he went to Inter - they played with flair - incl beating Barca with 10 men - Mourinho seems to adapt his style to the squad's ability (maybe breaking down as of late).
Anyway, I digress - I would prefer to engineer the gaelic rules where no style will lead to a boring spectacle.
When I watch NFL, I never remember thinking that was boring - there's always action - gain those 10 yds or lose the ball - finesse between pass and rush plays.
Even the Aussie AFL - it's amazing with their consecutive handpassing, it doesn't seem to be a degenerating issue as there is plenty of long range kicking as well - and it also has plenty of action (boredom for me here only occurs during those occasional blowout games (60-100 pts margins) - I don't know their stats - maybe handpasses are still more than half of all passes.
You must be going batty knowing I was serious about the coloured rope - my suttle change :).
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 08/10/2018 03:08:37
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Whammo makes a great point.
We shouldn't start the conversation about Gaelic Football from the point that "football is broken".
It clearly isn't broken.
Gaelic Football is the biggest and most successful sport in Ireland in terms of attendances, player numbers, TV viewing figures etc. Soccer is the only sport in Ireland comparable to it. Both sports leave the others very much in the hapenny place in terms of popularity across the board.
We start from that point, we have the most successful sport in Ireland in terms of player numbers, TV and attendances, how do we make sure it stays as successful.
People have denigrated the sport for the guts of the last 20 years because teams have innovated tactically.
Rule changes should be looked at to maximise the enjoyment of the game for players and spectators but when we let hyperbole rule the conversation it is dangerous.
There is a real danger that Gaelic Football could be really hamstrung by restrictive new rules that make it in to a highly structured game that is a major departure from the game that has evolved over the last century.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13705 - 08/10/2018 08:22:09
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Replying To MesAmis: "Whammo makes a great point.
We shouldn't start the conversation about Gaelic Football from the point that "football is broken".
It clearly isn't broken.
Gaelic Football is the biggest and most successful sport in Ireland in terms of attendances, player numbers, TV viewing figures etc. Soccer is the only sport in Ireland comparable to it. Both sports leave the others very much in the hapenny place in terms of popularity across the board.
We start from that point, we have the most successful sport in Ireland in terms of player numbers, TV and attendances, how do we make sure it stays as successful.
People have denigrated the sport for the guts of the last 20 years because teams have innovated tactically.
Rule changes should be looked at to maximise the enjoyment of the game for players and spectators but when we let hyperbole rule the conversation it is dangerous.
There is a real danger that Gaelic Football could be really hamstrung by restrictive new rules that make it in to a highly structured game that is a major departure from the game that has evolved over the last century." Bang on the money MesAmis.
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 08/10/2018 15:52:43
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Surely the biggest problem in football is the amount of mismatches during the summer months?
I don't think the league gets as much negativity as the Championship!
Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1415 - 08/10/2018 15:52:58
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For those that belong to the super 8's or an elite county then football clearly isn't broken by any stretch of the imagination, but for those that belong to the so called weaker counties then yes it is broken. Gaelic football will never cease to exist, dwindle or fade away irrespective of it's condition, let it be broken, dented, warped, fragmented or whatever, however neither will it's apparent positives or negatives cease to exist.
Imo, any adjustments, tweek's or restructuring that's needed to improve the game can be done without making reference to professional soccer teams / clubs, there's no comparison what so ever between the two very different codes.
The proposed experimental rule change is going to have an effect on the "blanket defence" system rightly or wrongly, the fallout from this is going to have an adverse effect on Carlow's preparation for the 2019 nfl. Should the proposed rule changes go ahead then Carlow will have to abandon the very system that got them finally promoted.
Perhaps we do have the most successful sport in Ireland, however that doesn't take from the fact that some of it is flawed and needs to be looked at.
My question is, why could these proposed changes not have been tried and tested at senior club level for a year (ish) and put in place at senior inter level the following year.
supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2907 - 08/10/2018 21:30:12
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Replying To Greengrass: "Bang on the money MesAmis." " a major departure from the game that has evolved over the last century." Evolved into the greatest piece of sh-t of a sport that ever visited this planet.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 08/10/2018 22:44:54
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Was at a 13-side minor game last night; brilliant, free-flowing, plenty of space. Might not be reflected in senior game, of course, but easier to administer than the various rule-changes proposed. Would also help weaker clubs/counties to compete.
befair (Down) - Posts: 237 - 09/10/2018 00:44:19
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" a major departure from the game that has evolved over the last century." Evolved into the greatest piece of sh-t of a sport that ever visited this planet.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 339 - 08/10/2018 22:44:54
Good contribution. I'm sure that took you a couple of hours to compose. Well done.
No matter what we do with football a very vocal minority will always hold the above view. Look at the above post.
A poster believes, supposedly, that football is the worst sport in the world.
What does that say about all other sports, hurling in particular, that they cannot be more popular/successful in Ireland than "the greatest piece of sh-t of a sport that ever visited this planet"?
Surely that's a question for all sporting bodies in Ireland. Why are they all, with the exception of another much maligned sport in soccer, so far behind Gaelic Football if Gaelic Football is so supposedly horrendous?
Because, for as long as I can remember, Gaelic Football has been the poor relation, supposedly, but in reality it has been and will continue to be top dog in Ireland.
Any attempt to change the rules should start from this point and no other. When you start from the point that "football is broken" there is the possibility that the rule changes will be too radical and alter the game for the worse.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13705 - 09/10/2018 08:11:27
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Replying To befair: "Was at a 13-side minor game last night; brilliant, free-flowing, plenty of space. Might not be reflected in senior game, of course, but easier to administer than the various rule-changes proposed. Would also help weaker clubs/counties to compete." I do agree with you that the game should go to 13 aside in roscommon the lower leagues are 13 aside as teams may struggle to field and it really does make for some brillant matches imagine introducing this to senior games with the higher quailty of footballer.
Playing 13 aside would help reduce the blanket defence YES but i dont think it would help weaker counties as the only way weaker counties cause upsets is through blanket defences Dublin kerry will have no problem going man to man if it went to 13 aside as they would back the talent they have.
Tarismelting22 (Roscommon) - Posts: 760 - 09/10/2018 09:08:23
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Replying To befair: "Was at a 13-side minor game last night; brilliant, free-flowing, plenty of space. Might not be reflected in senior game, of course, but easier to administer than the various rule-changes proposed. Would also help weaker clubs/counties to compete." With all due respect it was 13 a side and not 15 a side which is a completely different game as there is no full back and full forward so there is going to be more room etc etc
daddyknowsbest (Cavan) - Posts: 85 - 09/10/2018 09:21:57
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Replying To daddyknowsbest: "With all due respect it was 13 a side and not 15 a side which is a completely different game as there is no full back and full forward so there is going to be more room etc etc" With all due respect, isn't that the whole point?
m_the_d (None) - Posts: 1099 - 09/10/2018 09:54:01
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Replying To daddyknowsbest: "With all due respect it was 13 a side and not 15 a side which is a completely different game as there is no full back and full forward so there is going to be more room etc etc" You won't be without a full forward or full back in 13 a side. Teams will still defend as a unit and be able set up an adequate defence but there should be more space. If you've 15 a side team will have 14/15 players in their own half defending, if you've 20 a side it would be the exact same with 19/20 lads back defending at times....13 aside wouldn't leave teams sitting ducks with no defence but it should free up alot more space and encourage the attacking team. Aswell as that, counties with weaker panels and would have a better starting team and better quality to spring from the bench. It has to be trialled at some stage.
tipp11 (Tipperary) - Posts: 353 - 09/10/2018 12:44:41
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Replying To tipp11: "You won't be without a full forward or full back in 13 a side. Teams will still defend as a unit and be able set up an adequate defence but there should be more space. If you've 15 a side team will have 14/15 players in their own half defending, if you've 20 a side it would be the exact same with 19/20 lads back defending at times....13 aside wouldn't leave teams sitting ducks with no defence but it should free up alot more space and encourage the attacking team. Aswell as that, counties with weaker panels and would have a better starting team and better quality to spring from the bench. It has to be trialled at some stage." Teams are now able to keep possession for long boring periods of play with 15 on the field, reduce the numbers to 13 and it gets even easier. 13 players on the same size pitch just means players have to be fitter to cover the ground, slower skilful players will be replaced with athletes.
Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 09/10/2018 13:23:54
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Replying To MesAmis: "" a major departure from the game that has evolved over the last century." Evolved into the greatest piece of sh-t of a sport that ever visited this planet.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 339 - 08/10/2018 22:44:54
Good contribution. I'm sure that took you a couple of hours to compose. Well done.
No matter what we do with football a very vocal minority will always hold the above view. Look at the above post.
A poster believes, supposedly, that football is the worst sport in the world.
What does that say about all other sports, hurling in particular, that they cannot be more popular/successful in Ireland than "the greatest piece of sh-t of a sport that ever visited this planet"?
Surely that's a question for all sporting bodies in Ireland. Why are they all, with the exception of another much maligned sport in soccer, so far behind Gaelic Football if Gaelic Football is so supposedly horrendous?
Because, for as long as I can remember, Gaelic Football has been the poor relation, supposedly, but in reality it has been and will continue to be top dog in Ireland.
Any attempt to change the rules should start from this point and no other. When you start from the point that "football is broken" there is the possibility that the rule changes will be too radical and alter the game for the worse." I have made more posting about the history of football. the history of it in my county, parish and family . Taking part in discussions at different levels on what has changed for the worst and the only improvement is the fitness of the players. It pains me to see where a once good sport has gone. Personnel opinion.
Frankly I do not care about the other sports other than gaelic games. When football is criticized the first word out of the defenders of this now sh-t game is hurling. I wonder why ? It is that under the surface they know hurling is far superior game with a much higher level of skills and that irks them. The skill level is why less people play hurling at the top level. Not that numbers should be the measurement of what is a good game anyway. I am sure every footballer takes a hurley in his hand and gets enjoyment out of using it.
Soccer mentioned. How many changes made in 100 years and it the most played game in the world.
Football has evolved. How? Rules that removed a fair tackle. Pull the shirt off the guy because the only consequence is giving up possession. Allowing players to walk around with the ball in their hand, gaining 20 ft and changing the free angle before kicking. Removed the skill of dead ball kicking from the side line under the guise of speeding up the game which encouraged the ball going backwards and actually slowed down the game. Allowed a hand past instead of fist which turned into throwing. (something going on in hurling also). The mark? Players jumped up, fielded the ball and kept the game going. No need for an Australian or rugby rule stopping play.
Between the rule makers and coaches they fuc-ked up this game.
Take no pleasure in this coming from a football only club and a family proficiency at it.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 09/10/2018 13:49:02
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Replying To neverright: "The full back knew what was going to happen - a 'Hail Mary' of a ball dropping into the goalmouth. It required thought from the full-back (or keeper) but mainly to do with hitting the full-forward without being caught. Meath had some fine full-backs in those days." It did require thought as often a decision had to be made as to whether to stick to the full forward or guard the square. Centre back often had similar decisions. And ya, Meath have had some of the best ever full backs.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1338 - 09/10/2018 14:18:12
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Replying To Soma: "Teams are now able to keep possession for long boring periods of play with 15 on the field, reduce the numbers to 13 and it gets even easier. 13 players on the same size pitch just means players have to be fitter to cover the ground, slower skilful players will be replaced with athletes." Couldn't agree more with you.
Also it's tough to get universally strong rule changes what works at club minor doesn't work at senior intercounty level.
13 a side is a common solution to the ills of the game. It is really badly thought out. The pitch isn't too small, it's that it's too big and teams don't care about possession in midfield.
It doesn't affect hurling because it's played on the correct sized pitch for it.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4210 - 09/10/2018 14:53:32
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I have made more posting about the history of football. the history of it in my county, parish and family . Taking part in discussions at different levels on what has changed for the worst and the only improvement is the fitness of the players. It pains me to see where a once good sport has gone. Personnel opinion.
Frankly I do not care about the other sports other than gaelic games. When football is criticized the first word out of the defenders of this now sh-t game is hurling. I wonder why ? It is that under the surface they know hurling is far superior game with a much higher level of skills and that irks them. The skill level is why less people play hurling at the top level. Not that numbers should be the measurement of what is a good game anyway. I am sure every footballer takes a hurley in his hand and gets enjoyment out of using it.
Soccer mentioned. How many changes made in 100 years and it the most played game in the world.
Football has evolved. How? Rules that removed a fair tackle. Pull the shirt off the guy because the only consequence is giving up possession. Allowing players to walk around with the ball in their hand, gaining 20 ft and changing the free angle before kicking. Removed the skill of dead ball kicking from the side line under the guise of speeding up the game which encouraged the ball going backwards and actually slowed down the game. Allowed a hand past instead of fist which turned into throwing. (something going on in hurling also). The mark? Players jumped up, fielded the ball and kept the game going. No need for an Australian or rugby rule stopping play.
Between the rule makers and coaches they fuc-ked up this game.
Take no pleasure in this coming from a football only club and a family proficiency at it.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 340 - 09/10/2018 13:49:02
I brought hurling up because it is a GAA sport, and really if football is as terrible as people say it is hurling should really be doing an awful lot better than it's current state.
Hurling isn't a superior game to football. It's a great game no doubt but struggles outside of it's traditional areas, always has and always will. I've hurled all my life and have played far more hurling than football but I can recognise hurling's limitations.
Football is, still, a great sport. Some of best GAA spectacles of late have been football games in the last few years.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13705 - 09/10/2018 14:54:29
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Replying To MesAmis: "" a major departure from the game that has evolved over the last century." Evolved into the greatest piece of sh-t of a sport that ever visited this planet.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 339 - 08/10/2018 22:44:54
Good contribution. I'm sure that took you a couple of hours to compose. Well done.
No matter what we do with football a very vocal minority will always hold the above view. Look at the above post.
A poster believes, supposedly, that football is the worst sport in the world.
What does that say about all other sports, hurling in particular, that they cannot be more popular/successful in Ireland than "the greatest piece of sh-t of a sport that ever visited this planet"?
Surely that's a question for all sporting bodies in Ireland. Why are they all, with the exception of another much maligned sport in soccer, so far behind Gaelic Football if Gaelic Football is so supposedly horrendous?
Because, for as long as I can remember, Gaelic Football has been the poor relation, supposedly, but in reality it has been and will continue to be top dog in Ireland.
Any attempt to change the rules should start from this point and no other. When you start from the point that "football is broken" there is the possibility that the rule changes will be too radical and alter the game for the worse." You're on fire Mes. Excellent post.
neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 09/10/2018 15:00:29
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