Tipperary Forum

Sheedy

(Oldest Posts First)

I personally will be extremely disappointed if Sheedy is reappointed. In my humble opinion it would be a dreadful decision. Cahill would have brought a freshness and a hope to Tipperary hurling especially with the state it finds itself in. What more does he have to do? Minor all ire and an u21 with one of the most ordinary teams Tipp has ever produced at that grade. It was a miracle Tipp won the last ever u21. 20000 people turned up to watch Tipp V Cork in Munster championship this year. Let me repeat that, 20,000. Semple was less than half full for a Tipp v Cork match. We need a manager that will not only reinvigorate the team but bring back the supporters. A Cahill appointment would go a long way. Unfortunately we might be lucky to get 15000 for next year. #stale

fergo (Tipperary) - Posts: 45 - 23/09/2018 01:11:46    2143315

Link

I personally will be extremely disappointed if Sheedy is reappointed. In my humble opinion it would be a dreadful decision. Cahill would have brought a freshness and a hope to Tipperary hurling especially with the state it finds itself in. What more does he have to do? Minor all ire and an u21 with one of the most ordinary teams Tipp has ever produced at that grade. It was a miracle Tipp won the last ever u21. 20000 people turned up to watch Tipp V Cork in Munster championship this year. Let me repeat that, 20,000. Semple was less than half full for a Tipp v Cork match. We need a manager that will not only reinvigorate the team but bring back the supporters. A Cahill appointment would go a long way. Unfortunately we might be lucky to get 15000 for next year. #stale
fergo (Tipperary) - Posts: 41 - 23/09/2018 01:11:46
Yes he's coached and done quite well at minor and u21 level but why not see him go elsewhere and coach at senior intercounty level first.
I wouldnt see Sheedy as dreadful. Excellent coach, tactically aware.
You cant put the attendance of Tipp Cork on anything. It was first game they played each other in new format.

DonaldDuck (Tipperary) - Posts: 411 - 23/09/2018 21:45:30    2143419

Link

Replying To DonaldDuck:  "I personally will be extremely disappointed if Sheedy is reappointed. In my humble opinion it would be a dreadful decision. Cahill would have brought a freshness and a hope to Tipperary hurling especially with the state it finds itself in. What more does he have to do? Minor all ire and an u21 with one of the most ordinary teams Tipp has ever produced at that grade. It was a miracle Tipp won the last ever u21. 20000 people turned up to watch Tipp V Cork in Munster championship this year. Let me repeat that, 20,000. Semple was less than half full for a Tipp v Cork match. We need a manager that will not only reinvigorate the team but bring back the supporters. A Cahill appointment would go a long way. Unfortunately we might be lucky to get 15000 for next year. #stale
fergo (Tipperary) - Posts: 41 - 23/09/2018 01:11:46
Yes he's coached and done quite well at minor and u21 level but why not see him go elsewhere and coach at senior intercounty level first.
I wouldnt see Sheedy as dreadful. Excellent coach, tactically aware.
You cant put the attendance of Tipp Cork on anything. It was first game they played each other in new format."
Now c'mon Mr Duck, Sheedy's reappointment reminds me of Michael D getting back into the Aras. Both did good jobs evidently but the worlds they occupy don't revolve around them. There are others who will do an equally good job and maybe even far better. Sheedy is the safe and conservative choice made by the county board whose average age is 60+. You know who they are, see am I right. A Cahill appointment would have been bold, daring and an exciting choice. It's a backward step, it's backwards for Tipp imho. I'm bitterly disappointed. Look, I hope he will be successful. But what's his objective? To win an All Ire? Done that!! To manage the first Tipp team to retain an All Ire since 1965?? With that panel??? Paudie, Brendan, Bonner, Seamy are gone. Maybe I'm wrong about Paudie. No, it's not going to happen, so why go back? What's his motivation??? Peculiar.

fergo (Tipperary) - Posts: 45 - 25/09/2018 00:01:59    2143633

Link

Great appointment, delighted to have him back in charge. Hopefully, he will land the big again during his second coming.

2019 could be one last tilt with the old guard, 2020 bring in some of the younger guys.
2021 peak with a mix of old, new and the middle generation of John McGrath, Kennedy, Forde etc.

As for Cahill. I don't think he is ready yet. He will relish another year with what will now be under 20s. It will be the best of three for him versus Denis Ring. The two minor games last year were phenomenal.

I hope Sheedy mentors Cahill as a potential successor in three years time. It could work out really well, Sheedy leaves with the older lads when they retire. Cahill takes over when his young cubs are off age.

Also John Sheedy is obvious connection between the under 20s and seniors. I have to say the county board seem to be learning from past mistakes. We seem to be producing strong underage teams who are winning all Irelands and we are minding the management structures too.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2328 - 25/09/2018 17:11:41    2143783

Link

Replying To Killarney.87:  "Great appointment, delighted to have him back in charge. Hopefully, he will land the big again during his second coming.

2019 could be one last tilt with the old guard, 2020 bring in some of the younger guys.
2021 peak with a mix of old, new and the middle generation of John McGrath, Kennedy, Forde etc.

As for Cahill. I don't think he is ready yet. He will relish another year with what will now be under 20s. It will be the best of three for him versus Denis Ring. The two minor games last year were phenomenal.

I hope Sheedy mentors Cahill as a potential successor in three years time. It could work out really well, Sheedy leaves with the older lads when they retire. Cahill takes over when his young cubs are off age.

Also John Sheedy is obvious connection between the under 20s and seniors. I have to say the county board seem to be learning from past mistakes. We seem to be producing strong underage teams who are winning all Irelands and we are minding the management structures too."
Ok, ok, Killarney. You're comment is what I have come to expect from you, measured and well thought out. However, I don't agree with you.
1. The old guard are finished. They hit their peak in '16. They largely under achieved as a golden generation. They should have gone on to dominate the 2010s like KK dominated from '06-'09 but key players lacked discipline. Bonner is a shadow of his former self as is Noel. Seamy and Brendan have serious injuries.
2. If you're good enough your old enough to play was often said about the 16 year old prospect. Cahill has shown he is made of the right stuff. He's good enough. It's his time. He was mad for the job. You're exactly like the county board Killarney, conservative, chance taking or being brave is incomprehensible to ye. The safe bet is the one ye will always choose.
3. The middle generation? You've mentioned 3 players. One hasnt got back to the heights of '16. Another had a good league but when it came down to do or die in the championship, he was found wanting and the last player was never good enough in the first place to hurl senior inter county.
4. Strong underage teams winning all Irelands? Aw shtop getting ahead of yerself. One u21 since the previous win in 2010?? And it was 1995 before that!!! And at minor Tipp have won only 4 all Irelands since 1996.

Just trying to put things into perspective for you Killarney.
5. LS walked out on Tipp at a key juncture. 2010 demonstrated how strong a panel Tipp had. If LS had stayed on we could have at the least retained an All Ire. RTE punditry was more important. I don't forget and I don't forgive.

fergo (Tipperary) - Posts: 45 - 25/09/2018 23:42:05    2143848

Link

Great appointment and the best of luck to all my Tipp cousins. See you all at Fagans for the ticket exchange !!

Brinsley Swartz (Mayo) - Posts: 2203 - 26/09/2018 14:46:56    2143947

Link

Replying To fergo:  "Ok, ok, Killarney. You're comment is what I have come to expect from you, measured and well thought out. However, I don't agree with you.
1. The old guard are finished. They hit their peak in '16. They largely under achieved as a golden generation. They should have gone on to dominate the 2010s like KK dominated from '06-'09 but key players lacked discipline. Bonner is a shadow of his former self as is Noel. Seamy and Brendan have serious injuries.
2. If you're good enough your old enough to play was often said about the 16 year old prospect. Cahill has shown he is made of the right stuff. He's good enough. It's his time. He was mad for the job. You're exactly like the county board Killarney, conservative, chance taking or being brave is incomprehensible to ye. The safe bet is the one ye will always choose.
3. The middle generation? You've mentioned 3 players. One hasnt got back to the heights of '16. Another had a good league but when it came down to do or die in the championship, he was found wanting and the last player was never good enough in the first place to hurl senior inter county.
4. Strong underage teams winning all Irelands? Aw shtop getting ahead of yerself. One u21 since the previous win in 2010?? And it was 1995 before that!!! And at minor Tipp have won only 4 all Irelands since 1996.

Just trying to put things into perspective for you Killarney.
5. LS walked out on Tipp at a key juncture. 2010 demonstrated how strong a panel Tipp had. If LS had stayed on we could have at the least retained an All Ire. RTE punditry was more important. I don't forget and I don't forgive."
I will put together a proper when I have the time to write it Fergal. Here are some quick responses for now:

I'm adding McCormack, Barrett and Bubbles to the middle generation and yes the last two have serious disciplinary issues.

Bonner serving overseas hasn't helped his game. I thought Noel McGrath was very good this year. Unfortunately Cahill is done, Callanan and Brendan Maher were good this year and will bounce back when injuries heal. Seamie worked his socks off in championship, had we progressed we would have seen his best.

You can put Heffernan in for Kennedy, j McGrath and Forde combined really well for UL and Tipp earlier in the year.

Cahill had a strong minor team in 2014 and did nothing with them, blamed the Footballers in 2015, had to have a flat Munster final this ear before bouncing back. He is not ready for the step up yet. If he lost Bevans he would be under pressure.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2328 - 26/09/2018 19:45:36    2144005

Link

Replying To Killarney.87:  "I will put together a proper when I have the time to write it Fergal. Here are some quick responses for now:

I'm adding McCormack, Barrett and Bubbles to the middle generation and yes the last two have serious disciplinary issues.

Bonner serving overseas hasn't helped his game. I thought Noel McGrath was very good this year. Unfortunately Cahill is done, Callanan and Brendan Maher were good this year and will bounce back when injuries heal. Seamie worked his socks off in championship, had we progressed we would have seen his best.

You can put Heffernan in for Kennedy, j McGrath and Forde combined really well for UL and Tipp earlier in the year.

Cahill had a strong minor team in 2014 and did nothing with them, blamed the Footballers in 2015, had to have a flat Munster final this ear before bouncing back. He is not ready for the step up yet. If he lost Bevans he would be under pressure."
Why are so many Tipp people eulogising Bevans? I'm not being smart now. I don't honestly know. I know he has been Cahill's coach for several years now but what's so special about him?

fergo (Tipperary) - Posts: 45 - 26/09/2018 22:14:27    2144035

Link

Now c'mon Donald, Sheedy's reappointment reminds me of Michael D getting back into the Aras. Both did good jobs evidently but the worlds they occupy don't revolve around them. There are others who will do an equally good job and maybe even far better. Sheedy is the safe and conservative choice made by the county board whose average age is 60+. You know who they are, see am I right. A Cahill appointment would have been bold, daring and an exciting choice. It's a backward step, it's backwards for Tipp imho. I'm bitterly disappointed. Look, I hope he will be successful. But what's his objective? To win an All Ire? Done that!! To manage the first Tipp team to retain an All Ire since 1965?? With that panel??? Paudie, Brendan, Bonner, Seamy are gone. Maybe I'm wrong about Paudie. No, it's not going to happen, so why go back? What's his motivation??? Peculiar.
fergo (Tipperary) - Posts: 45 - 25/09/2018 00:01:59
I seriously dont get how its peculiar why Sheedy wanted to come back.
Cahill coming in would have been extremaly risky. He is very raw at coaching at the top level. He would be better off going elsewhere and getting more experience and coming in after Sheedy in 3 years time.
Sheedy back as head coach is nothing like Michael D. And neither think the world revolves around them
Sheedy isnt a safe and conservative choice. And his motivation would be for the county to be successful. Nothing peculiar about that

Great appointment, delighted to have him back in charge. Hopefully, he will land the big again during his second coming.
2019 could be one last tilt with the old guard, 2020 bring in some of the younger guys.
2021 peak with a mix of old, new and the middle generation of John McGrath, Kennedy, Forde etc.
As for Cahill. I don't think he is ready yet. He will relish another year with what will now be under 20s. It will be the best of three for him versus Denis Ring. The two minor games last year were phenomenal.
I hope Sheedy mentors Cahill as a potential successor in three years time. It could work out really well, Sheedy leaves with the older lads when they retire. Cahill takes over when his young cubs are off age.
Also John Sheedy is obvious connection between the under 20s and seniors. I have to say the county board seem to be learning from past mistakes. We seem to be producing strong underage teams who are winning all Irelands and we are minding the management structures too.
Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2313 - 25/09/2018 17:11:41
I wouldnt put the next 3 years in such blunt terms. And if you're looking to bring in new players why bother have a shot with the old guard?

1. The old guard are finished. They hit their peak in '16. They largely under achieved as a golden generation. They should have gone on to dominate the 2010s like KK dominated from '06-'09 but key players lacked discipline. Bonner is a shadow of his former self as is Noel. Seamy and Brendan have serious injuries.
2. If you're good enough your old enough to play was often said about the 16 year old prospect. Cahill has shown he is made of the right stuff. He's good enough. It's his time. He was mad for the job. You're exactly like the county board Killarney, conservative, chance taking or being brave is incomprehensible to ye. The safe bet is the one ye will always choose.
3. The middle generation? You've mentioned 3 players. One hasnt got back to the heights of '16. Another had a good league but when it came down to do or die in the championship, he was found wanting and the last player was never good enough in the first place to hurl senior inter county.
4. Strong underage teams winning all Irelands? Aw shtop getting ahead of yerself. One u21 since the previous win in 2010?? And it was 1995 before that!!! And at minor Tipp have won only 4 all Irelands since 1996.
Just trying to put things into perspective for you Killarney.
5. LS walked out on Tipp at a key juncture. 2010 demonstrated how strong a panel Tipp had. If LS had stayed on we could have at the least retained an All Ire. RTE punditry was more important. I don't forget and I don't forgive.
fergo (Tipperary) - Posts: 45 - 25/09/2018 23:42:05
LS didnt walk out on Tipp. His job/personal circumstances changed. That isnt walking out on a team.
Doing some punditry is very different to coaching a team. Time differences completely different.
When people say old guard how many players are being included?
There isnt anything really to show tipp should have dominated the 2010s like Kilkenny had for a few years.
Cahill may be mad for the job but he's raw as hell. He should get out of the tipp bubble for a few years and come back when Sheedy is finished his term. Then we could really see how good a coach he is.

DonaldDuck (Tipperary) - Posts: 411 - 28/09/2018 21:13:05    2144287

Link

Replying To fergo:  "Why are so many Tipp people eulogising Bevans? I'm not being smart now. I don't honestly know. I know he has been Cahill's coach for several years now but what's so special about him?"
It's rhe players who have played under him who are giving him the thumbs up. They love him in Upperchurch. He wasn't with Cahill in 2014, I'm pretty sure it was 2015. So I'm his 4 years involved the teams played in three finals and one two of them. Last year they lost to Cork after a replay in the minor. That was bad luck to meet them at semi final stage in Munster cos the two teams were in the top 3 minor teams in Ireland last year with Galway.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2328 - 29/09/2018 20:11:18    2144352

Link

The reason I am being so blunt about the next three years is because unfortunately the Mahers, Callanan, McGrath, and Cahill aren't going to be there forever and we have to succession plan or we will have a gaping hole in the team when they retire.

I have huge admiration for them as a group of men and all they have achieved. They are entitled to another shot at it next year.

Unfortunately, if younger lads aren't blooded they might fall through the cracks. Gavin has done a great job at recycling his Dublin. The average age of his winning team this year is lower than that of his team who one the first of the four in a row.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2328 - 29/09/2018 20:17:50    2144355

Link