National Forum

Greatness

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Replying To Joxer:  "Andy Moran? Freeman, Dillon, O'Connor, McLoughlin are no slouches. That Mayo team came within 1 point of toppling the current Dublin team in 3 AI finals playing fantastic football. You don't have to have 5/6 all-star forwards to win Sam. 2/3 is sufficient and Mayo have that. Certainly they are the second best team of this era and looking back over the decades there wouldn't be too many others who could match them IMO."
All very good forwards but hardly in the Gooch, O'Neill, Canavan, Mcmanus, Brogan or Murphy bracket. I can't think of too many teams over the years that won Sam without a handful of elite forwards.

@Username i have no issue acknowledging the Dubs as the best in my lifetime. They are unbelievable. Their place in the history books is secure. That doesn't seem to be enough for some people though who look for additional validation by discrediting teams of the past and making lofty claims about the current opposition. Dublin strolled virtually unopposed to the title this year and will very likely do so again next year. I don't have an issue with that at all, and my own county has enjoyed similar success in the past. I believe these past successes are referred to as cakewalks and handy all Ireland's etc. by many of your fellow Dubs. Its interesting that when Dublin win this way its 'raising the bar'. Didnt plan to get dragged in to this again and i really dont have anything else to add so will sign off at that.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 861 - 18/09/2018 11:22:03    2142403

Link

This Dublin team are brilliant. No question about it.
The Kerry /Tyrone teams of the noughties were brilliant.
The nineties saw great Down, Derry, Meath, Galway teams.
The Kerry team of the eighties were brilliant.

Joxer's opinion that Dubs would comfortably beat Tyrone & Kerry of noughties is fine, he is entitled to that opinion.
My own opinion is that Kerry & Tyrone would have taken them down (not every time), but enough times to share the glory of that decade even further.

Both decades in one way were similarly competitive, 7 counties contested All Ireland finals in the noughties, so far this decade we have had 7 counties in finals. That will unlikely increase next year. Dublin in a final are notoriously difficult to beat, hence their incredible stat in finals. If Dublin contest next years final, they will have got to 7 finals this decade. Kerry contested 8 finals in the noughties, winning 5. Some consistency, margins are tight though.

Dublin still needed a very one sided ref performance to beat an average enough Kerry in the 16 semi, they needed an even bigger McQuillan howler to beat Mayo in 17. As I say margins are tight! Any of those results change & we may no longer be talking about the 'best team ever'.

This year Dublin were even better then the previous 3 years & I think they are in pole position to win 5 in a row. They have the best squad of players ever assembled. That is without question. Yes they have a lot of advantages over the chasing pack, but give them their credit they work hard & get the results. Some of their players are consistently class (in particular Cluxton, Fenton, McCaffrey, McCarthy, Kilkenny). When do any of these 5 have a poor game? Then they have the likes of Flynn, McManamin, Costelloe in reserve. I think they are dodgy in the full back line, but when they defend they defend as a team & get the numbers back to protect them. They are not unbeatable but who can step up & challenge them next season? Mayo, Galway, Kerry, Tyrone, Monaghan, Donegal & perhaps Kildare will be best equipped to challenge, but each of these sides have a lot of issues to resolve to even think about getting close!

Illusionist (Cork) - Posts: 73 - 18/09/2018 12:15:05    2142421

Link

Replying To GeniusGerry:  "All very good forwards but hardly in the Gooch, O'Neill, Canavan, Mcmanus, Brogan or Murphy bracket. I can't think of too many teams over the years that won Sam without a handful of elite forwards.

@Username i have no issue acknowledging the Dubs as the best in my lifetime. They are unbelievable. Their place in the history books is secure. That doesn't seem to be enough for some people though who look for additional validation by discrediting teams of the past and making lofty claims about the current opposition. Dublin strolled virtually unopposed to the title this year and will very likely do so again next year. I don't have an issue with that at all, and my own county has enjoyed similar success in the past. I believe these past successes are referred to as cakewalks and handy all Ireland's etc. by many of your fellow Dubs. Its interesting that when Dublin win this way its 'raising the bar'. Didnt plan to get dragged in to this again and i really dont have anything else to add so will sign off at that."
All good Gerry i know where your coming from!

We've had these discussions before, i would acknowledge this year the cards fell for us nicely and if im being honest, i was surprised with both Galway and Tyrone, i thought they were a lot closer to us then it transpired.

Some of these years were fierce, 2016 stands out having to do Donegal and Kerry winners and finalists very recently and had just won All Ireland them selves then Mayo, who went on to contest the next two finals and had one already contested.

2013 stands out to that brilliant Semi final against your selves, personally the best game of football i was ever at and Mayo again in the final after they had stuffed us the year before.

2011 wasnt handy either Tyrone, Donegal, Kerry.

Whatever about outcomes and who you played in the final, it sure is a harder route in the modern context to win an All Ireland then i believe it was historically in my opinion.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 1853 - 18/09/2018 13:34:13    2142459

Link

Just read all the posts it reminds me of that picture that went around of a dress a few years back some said it was gold others said it was ah who cares , point is people see things differently and rarely are willing to accept they are wrong which is why we go to different statistics to back up our ' valid ' opinions, it's like a debating society it's not about being right it's about who can make the more forceful argument, for me when the word greatness is mentioned I hate discussing it in the present tense , it's someth that we should look back on and reflect on which is hard to do if the player/team are still achieving , regards players teams who would win what in what era well let me say this , the Dublin and Kerry teams of the 70 and 80s would be hammered had they met any of the winners from the last ten years , but and it's a big one , if the 70 and 80s players were born today with the same conditions if fitness and coaching they would be equally awesome and most of those players under those conditions would walk into any team today just my opinion

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5138 - 20/09/2018 19:30:30    2143001

Link