|
Replying To RoyalBadger: "Its obvious what you're up to. Riding a crest of a wave and looking to kick the neighbours who are a having a hard time of it.
All very odd. I wouldnt give a hoot what Dublin were up to if we were in the final." so I take it you aren't going to address the topic? fine. no problem at all.
go away then and let people who do want to and aren't paranoid wrecks engage in the debate ...
waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 21/08/2018 18:52:37
2135394
Link
4
|
|
Replying To TheUsername: "Fincial resources may be a contributing factor though, per head of population for GDF Monagahan are one of the most well provided for counties:
0% of the population? Of the 1.3 million people in Dublin 39k are registered to a GAA club.
Finance? : Below is the games development funding ratio per head of population for 2018.
Population of Dublin: 1.345 million, Games Development Funding: 1.298 million, Ratio per head of population: 96 cent
Population of Kerry: 140.600k, Games Development Funding 197.600k, Ratio per head of population: 1.40 euro.
Population of Mayo: 130k, Games Devlopment Funding: 127.98k, Ratio per head of population: 98 cent.
Population of Donegal: 158k, Games Devlopment Funding: 132.000K Ratio per head of population: 83 cent.
Population of Galway: 258,552, Games Development Funding: 178.400k Ratio per head of Population: 69 cent.
Population of Tyrone: 177.986k, Games Developmet Funding: 119k, Ratio per head of population: 66 cent.
Population of Monghan: 60,483k Games Devlopment Funding: 122.500k, Ratio per head of population: 1.99 euro.
Population of Cork: 542,196k, Games Development Funding: 249k, Ratio per head of population: 45 cent.
Population of Kildare: 222,130, Games Developemnt Funding: 226.428k, Ratio per head of population: 1 euro.
Population of Meath: 194,942, Games Development Funding: 267.421k, Ratio per head of population: 1.37 euro.
* Note the above doesn't include provincal coaching grants given by the provincal council to every county except Dublin." Point taken. But you should divide the funding by the number of registered gaa members in each county to get a fairer reflection of distribution. Plus whatever sponsorship is allocated to the county team in question. Then a more accurate audit is possible. I don't have monaghan's figures. Maybe a fellow gaa person from Monaghan can enlighten us.
Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 21/08/2018 18:54:19
2135395
Link
0
|
|
If O'Neills sportswear sewed on the Derry players club crests on the other side of their shirt then they will play better, I wonder why they don't allow that?
PattyONeill (Derry) - Posts: 222 - 21/08/2018 19:17:30
2135406
Link
0
|
|
Replying To waynoI: "I mean every single county is who complain about imbalances etc yet counties with very little in terms of population, income, sponsorship etc are able to compete like Monaghan can compete in d1 regularly and get to all Ireland semi finals etc.
As for the rest of your post. totally irrelevant to the thread topic. I don't mind that you disagree it's your right to, don't be bringing where I live, where I'm from, and my potential future kids into it as it has absolutely no relevance whatsoever to the topic RD." Actually Wayne it is very relevant. And I'm not genuinely having a pop, as u know I have a good time for you md reald on here. We might seldom agree but I respect the difference. My point regarding yourself is valid as the whole population thing feeds right into where we presently are. I guarantee you that 90% plus of gaa people in Monaghan support Monaghan , the same can't be said of Meath Kildare or Wicklow you will see more dubs tops in many Meath areas (bettystown laytown, ashbourne, rathoath, etc) than you will Meath ones. As you know I lived in bettystown for a good while. So to use our population is a fallacy as it won't give a proper relevance to the debate, Meath club (one of biggest in county) ran a bus to a match this year on day Meath were playing, that bus from Meath club was heading to Dublin v Wicklow game. See what I'm getting at ? You can't make a blanket statement and attribute everything that has gone before without looking at everything including influxes of people who have a genuine hatred for Meath football and are happy to see them fail.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 21/08/2018 19:38:17
2135414
Link
0
|
|
Replying To royaldunne: "Actually Wayne it is very relevant. And I'm not genuinely having a pop, as u know I have a good time for you md reald on here. We might seldom agree but I respect the difference. My point regarding yourself is valid as the whole population thing feeds right into where we presently are. I guarantee you that 90% plus of gaa people in Monaghan support Monaghan , the same can't be said of Meath Kildare or Wicklow you will see more dubs tops in many Meath areas (bettystown laytown, ashbourne, rathoath, etc) than you will Meath ones. As you know I lived in bettystown for a good while. So to use our population is a fallacy as it won't give a proper relevance to the debate, Meath club (one of biggest in county) ran a bus to a match this year on day Meath were playing, that bus from Meath club was heading to Dublin v Wicklow game. See what I'm getting at ? You can't make a blanket statement and attribute everything that has gone before without looking at everything including influxes of people who have a genuine hatred for Meath football and are happy to see them fail." look, I accept not everyone in meath supports meath. I accept there are a large population of dubs who don't want meath to do well including myself ..
HOWEVER
I still believe if monaghan can compete in the way they have done with alot less than meath and MANY OTHER counties, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask how that can happen and why other big counties traditionally can't/haven't been competing.
waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 21/08/2018 21:10:19
2135439
Link
3
|
|
Replying To Donegalman: " Replying To TheUsername: "Fincial resources may be a contributing factor though, per head of population for GDF Monagahan are one of the most well provided for counties:
0% of the population? Of the 1.3 million people in Dublin 39k are registered to a GAA club.
Finance? : Below is the games development funding ratio per head of population for 2018.
Population of Dublin: 1.345 million, Games Development Funding: 1.298 million, Ratio per head of population: 96 cent
Population of Kerry: 140.600k, Games Development Funding 197.600k, Ratio per head of population: 1.40 euro.
Population of Mayo: 130k, Games Devlopment Funding: 127.98k, Ratio per head of population: 98 cent.
Population of Donegal: 158k, Games Devlopment Funding: 132.000K Ratio per head of population: 83 cent.
Population of Galway: 258,552, Games Development Funding: 178.400k Ratio per head of Population: 69 cent.
Population of Tyrone: 177.986k, Games Developmet Funding: 119k, Ratio per head of population: 66 cent.
Population of Monghan: 60,483k Games Devlopment Funding: 122.500k, Ratio per head of population: 1.99 euro.
Population of Cork: 542,196k, Games Development Funding: 249k, Ratio per head of population: 45 cent.
Population of Kildare: 222,130, Games Developemnt Funding: 226.428k, Ratio per head of population: 1 euro.
Population of Meath: 194,942, Games Development Funding: 267.421k, Ratio per head of population: 1.37 euro.
* Note the above doesn't include provincal coaching grants given by the provincal council to every county except Dublin." Point taken. But you should divide the funding by the number of registered gaa members in each county to get a fairer reflection of distribution. Plus whatever sponsorship is allocated to the county team in question. Then a more accurate audit is possible. I don't have monaghan's figures. Maybe a fellow gaa person from Monaghan can enlighten us."
What a registered player number is good for is measureing the effectiveness of how that GDF money is spent I.e. those who go on to join a club. A lad yesterday said there was between a 30%-40% increase in registered players in Monaghan in the last few years, I'm not sure myself just paraphrasing.
If it's true it's a sound investment, but a well funded one. They have also done relatively well at inter County youth in the last few years.
Fair play, GAA finance sometimes exist in a microcosm. You wouldn't anticipate Monaghan doing better then Dublin, Mayo or Kerry for games development funding for example.
Your right of course, it's only one source of funding, but good to see them put it to effective use, they seem to have good structures in place.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 21/08/2018 21:18:20
2135448
Link
2
|
|
Monaghan are enjoying a purple patch due to having some of their best players ever and a very good manager who knows how to organise and get the best out of them. Somebody compared them to Armagh 2001-06 and that's the first thing that popped in to my head as well.
These things go in cycles and it's not that other teams can't compete, it's that they can't compete consistently year after year. Kildare look to be coming again after a dreadful couple of years for example.
The exception seemingly is Dublin, who are replacing their great team a couple of players at a time on the back of several U21 wins. It will be interesting to see how this goes and whether they will regress at any stage.
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 21/08/2018 21:32:10
2135452
Link
3
|
|
Replying To GeniusGerry: "Monaghan are enjoying a purple patch due to having some of their best players ever and a very good manager who knows how to organise and get the best out of them. Somebody compared them to Armagh 2001-06 and that's the first thing that popped in to my head as well.
These things go in cycles and it's not that other teams can't compete, it's that they can't compete consistently year after year. Kildare look to be coming again after a dreadful couple of years for example.
The exception seemingly is Dublin, who are replacing their great team a couple of players at a time on the back of several U21 wins. It will be interesting to see how this goes and whether they will regress at any stage." dublin will regress of course they will. As you said these things go in cycles
waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13650 - 21/08/2018 21:38:45
2135454
Link
3
|
|
Replying To waynoI: "dublin will regress of course they will. As you said these things go in cycles" Yes but look at the players they have lost from the starting 15 already, Flynn, Brogan, Connolly, Rory O'Carroll. Some of their best ever. If they are going to regress it should have happened by now.
One thing that has been noticeable this year is that some key members of the defence are pushing on a bit now and that will be a big test for Gavin in the near future.
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 21/08/2018 22:11:12
2135472
Link
3
|
|
Replying To Donegalman: "Good post.
There are some specific reasons and some general ones why Monaghan are 'punching above their weight' while other counties with seemingly more resources (financial and population) are not doing so well.
1 Monaghan are in a position where Armagh were in a decade and a half ago. These good teams come and go, despite the best efforts of the fanatical core GAA at the heart of these counties. While I wouldn't predict that Monaghan will lag next season, they most likely will in seasons to come the same way that Armagh have done in the last decade.
Reason I pick Armagh is that their GAA population is of a similar size to Monaghan plus they dont really compete at hurling either, nor do they excel at other sports (rugby or Soccer most crucially).
There is no doubt that many county teams start their training with a specific aim to not only try to win their provincial but also to go as far in the competition as they can. To say that Leitrim go out without any heart in the championship is a discredit to them. To suggest that Tipp, Armagh, Fermanagh, Laois etc go out without desire or heart is also folly. Heart is in the right place across the board (mostly).
Generally it comes down to good players, good training and the infrastructure around them to support a campaign. Without the infrastructure then you are not going to come close." Armagh have a much larger player population. The county population is almost three times of monaghan. I make an assumption that u are not counting certain parts of the population but as a donegalman you know that effects Donegal, Monaghan, Cavan, Leitrim, Fermanagh, Tyrone etc.
In Armagh there are 46 football clubs by my reckoning compared to 30 in Monaghan.
I get the point your trying to make but its not quite the issue. IMO - Armagh could still compete as well as anyone in Ulster, its a bit odd when the most successful club dont have any representation dont you think??
seanfinn (Monaghan) - Posts: 360 - 22/08/2018 10:15:31
2135526
Link
0
|
|
It's an interesting question.
I was going to chime in with saying that in Meath they don't seem to play enough juvenile football for their clubs.
I looked though at Monaghan's underage competitions and they play very little football also.
Their u17 league has just recently started and they'll get only 6 games each in the league plus a knockout championship. I'm really shocked how little they play.
Something in Meath at club level that's hurting them is that there's too many clubs. It's a strange one, you always hear about having a lot of clubs as being a strength for a county. I don't think that's true in Meath's example.
They've a lot of clubs but not many really excellent clubs. Their record in Leinster recently is testament to that.
The standard of Meath senior football is way below Dublin.
The number of clubs is bad at underage also. There's a handful of very strong clubs at underage that are in the Dublin commuter towns, the more rural parts of Meath their juveniles are playing at a very poor standard relatively.
They are not getting the most out of their population because the talent is too spread out among clubs.
They will improve because the likes of Ratoath and Dunboyne are seriously top clubs producing quality players but the rest of the county is falling further behind.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4225 - 22/08/2018 11:56:47
2135560
Link
2
|
|
Could it be they just have a very good crop of players at the moment very simply?
My own county has reached similar heights, div 1 football including a div 1 final, only being beaten by Dublin in Leinster and even making an all Ireland semi final and that's with us being a dual county and the main emphasis being hurling.
Now however we find ourselves being down towards the bottom again.
With a lot of smaller counties it tends to go in cycles
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1337 - 22/08/2018 11:56:58
2135561
Link
0
|
|
This a good thread Wayne despite the petty attempts to derail it by going off topic.
I think our relative success is down to a number of factors. We have excellent underage structures in place and a thriving centre of excellence at Cloughran . It's no coincidence that the senior teams achievements have happened alongside long overdue breakthroughs at underage level (don't forget how close our minors were to dethroning a kerry team going for 5 in a row). A big emphasis on getting the schools performing is also a help .
A lot of this is down to, and would be impossible without, the wonderful support and sponsorship we receive from Investec , it would be disingenuous to ignore the importance of funds for a small county like ours and long may this arrangement continue.
Of course we are fortunate that all of the above has coincided with a terrific group of players coming along some of whom are the best Monaghan players in their position that I've seen in my lifetime (40 years watching the county). Couple that with an astute tactical motivator like MOR and you've a decent recipe for success (and it is success no matter how much people think Dublin would have beaten us by in the final) .
As for the Cavan lad trotting out the old 'it's all down to Conor McManus' line he obviously did not watch us at all this year.
Finally the 30 club thing can be a benefit , small counties create intense local rivalries leading to an ultra competitive club scene and battle hardened players .
Of course this could all fall away over the coming years but Football is nearly all we have up here and i'm confident that we can continue to punch above our weight for a good few years yet.
Muineacháin Abú
bluemoon (Monaghan) - Posts: 105 - 22/08/2018 14:01:22
2135608
Link
2
|
|
Replying To GeniusGerry: "Yes but look at the players they have lost from the starting 15 already, Flynn, Brogan, Connolly, Rory O'Carroll. Some of their best ever. If they are going to regress it should have happened by now.
One thing that has been noticeable this year is that some key members of the defence are pushing on a bit now and that will be a big test for Gavin in the near future." Well everyone has been saying our fullback line is weak since 2011
witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 22/08/2018 14:26:28
2135616
Link
2
|
|
Replying To seanfinn: "Armagh have a much larger player population. The county population is almost three times of monaghan. I make an assumption that u are not counting certain parts of the population but as a donegalman you know that effects Donegal, Monaghan, Cavan, Leitrim, Fermanagh, Tyrone etc.
In Armagh there are 46 football clubs by my reckoning compared to 30 in Monaghan.
I get the point your trying to make but its not quite the issue. IMO - Armagh could still compete as well as anyone in Ulster, its a bit odd when the most successful club dont have any representation dont you think??" Donegalman's post is 100% correct though. There is marginal difference in playing population, clubs etc amongst a number of Ulster counties. Monaghan are going through a golden period where the main reason imo is the fact they have the best forward in the country. The likes of Armagh, Derry, Down and even Donegal to a lesser extent will find it difficult to consistently play in Division 1 and compete for majors honours. Every other decade they might unearth a team capable of doing so for upto 10 years but to maintain that forever would be difficult. There was a great newspaper article yesterday which outlined this very point. Tyrone are now probably the only Ulster county with it's vast resources who can expect to always be a Division 1 team. The rest of the counties have to maximise their golden generation because it will be impossible to maintain it forever. In the case of Armagh, Down and Derry they managed to win All Ireland's and in the case of Armagh who you mention, they added that many Ulster Titles I forget the number to their All Ireland. I don't buy into this talk of Monaghan doing things so much better than the rest, other similar counties around them are doing the same and quietly trying to rebuild. I predict within a few years we won't see Monaghan playing in Division 1. At the minute they have not maximised their golden period to the same extent as Armagh, Down, Derry etc did. A county like Monaghan will not be able to stay at the top forever.
sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 22/08/2018 14:37:24
2135619
Link
0
|
|
Replying To KY4SAM2015: "We dont have half enough of threads actually to highlight the growing unbalance between Dublin and the rest. Even though this place is 90% full of dubs I think ye are getting a bit embarrassed with all the favoritism.
Sometime needs to change or we will end up with a competition to see who gets to play the dubs in the final.
Yes Monaghan had a great year but if they played Dublin they would have lost by 7 or 8 points at a minimum similiar to most other teams. That is not competing." Never bothered you when Kerry where winning there 37 All Irelands some times only needing to win 2/3 games or that counties weren't competing with the mighty kingdom , strange that.
superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 22/08/2018 14:59:46
2135623
Link
2
|
|
Replying To GeniusGerry: "Monaghan are enjoying a purple patch due to having some of their best players ever and a very good manager who knows how to organise and get the best out of them. Somebody compared them to Armagh 2001-06 and that's the first thing that popped in to my head as well.
These things go in cycles and it's not that other teams can't compete, it's that they can't compete consistently year after year. Kildare look to be coming again after a dreadful couple of years for example.
The exception seemingly is Dublin, who are replacing their great team a couple of players at a time on the back of several U21 wins. It will be interesting to see how this goes and whether they will regress at any stage." They already have regressed in my opinion .
superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 22/08/2018 15:10:35
2135626
Link
0
|
|
Replying To waynoI: "It's not a stupid question it's a question that is absolutely fair and just cause of where I'm from doesn't make it an unreasonable question to ask.
I'll answer your question that you posed though, yes it absolutely does mean they are competing. They've won Ulster titles despite have a third of the amount of clubs Antrim have for example and they're in Div 4. What's corks excuse for getting that roasting by Kerry, Monaghan drew with the same Kerry team a few weeks later. Monaghan are the only team so far to beat Dublin this year. They COULD be the only team to beat them competitively in the whole year. I didn't give them much of a chance of gettImg to the final once they reached the last 4, but they where still damn close to it, let's take cork as an example so you don't think it's just me getting a dig in at your county, they got mullered by Kerry and Tyrone, lost by a combined total of roughly 40 points over the two games yet little Monaghan who have less sponsorship money, about 200 less clubs than cork, much smaller population etc are able to draw with Kerry and come within a point of Tyrone in a national semi final
With regards the comical Ali Dublin fan comment and pretending everything is rosy in the garden, i am not responding to that, this thread isn't about Dublin just cause a poster from Dublin set it up. Keep the thread on topic and answer the questions out if you want to give your input, if you want to discuss Dublin and their achievements and whether or not said achievements are 'real' then go start a thread but don't hijack this one.
The discussion/thread I started is very much legitimate however." "i am not responding to that, this thread isn't about Dublin just cause a poster from Dublin set it up. Keep the thread on topic and answer the questions out if you want to give your input, if you want to discuss Dublin and their achievements and whether or not said achievements are 'real' then go start a thread but don't hijack this one. The discussion/thread I started is very much legitimate however."
You are talking about intercounty football and you are talking about the word "compete" which by extension then implies that there is a competition...but there is no competition because of Dublin...so hence why Dublin come into a thread about intercounty football and lack of teams competing.
Secondly, if you want to know why a county like Meath is not competitive well RoyaDunne has answered it for everyone...Meath is now full of people like you, Dubliners, who have no interest in Meath football or the promotion of Meath football or the development of Meath football. Its quite ironic that you are posting a question about a the problems in traditional counties when you yourself are a contributing factor.
When the land commissioners settled in Meath from places like Leitrim and Mayo, they contributed to the local clubs, integrated into the GAA scene and helped us produce some great footballers with parents from the West. Now all too often when a footballer is any good in Meath he plays for the Dublin club of his parents. '
Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1318 - 22/08/2018 16:59:41
2135662
Link
3
|
|
Replying To Crinigan: ""i am not responding to that, this thread isn't about Dublin just cause a poster from Dublin set it up. Keep the thread on topic and answer the questions out if you want to give your input, if you want to discuss Dublin and their achievements and whether or not said achievements are 'real' then go start a thread but don't hijack this one. The discussion/thread I started is very much legitimate however."
You are talking about intercounty football and you are talking about the word "compete" which by extension then implies that there is a competition...but there is no competition because of Dublin...so hence why Dublin come into a thread about intercounty football and lack of teams competing.
Secondly, if you want to know why a county like Meath is not competitive well RoyaDunne has answered it for everyone...Meath is now full of people like you, Dubliners, who have no interest in Meath football or the promotion of Meath football or the development of Meath football. Its quite ironic that you are posting a question about a the problems in traditional counties when you yourself are a contributing factor.
When the land commissioners settled in Meath from places like Leitrim and Mayo, they contributed to the local clubs, integrated into the GAA scene and helped us produce some great footballers with parents from the West. Now all too often when a footballer is any good in Meath he plays for the Dublin club of his parents. '" I do get this argument and i suppose it doesnt help the proximity of Meath to Dublin and urban sprawl etc.
There are a couple of anomalies to it though. Kildare have been relatively successful a couple of years on the road with the same issues, they have got to a League final, Leinster final, qualified for the S8's and won an All Irealnd U20, a couple of years into the development of this generation.
Dublin itself also have a huge population from every other county in the country, name a county and we have people from there living and working and going home at weekends to play club or county football.
Id accept its an issue for Meath but equally it is for Kildare and Dublin and to a grater or lesser extent for counties on the east coast were the economy is strong.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 22/08/2018 17:22:43
2135670
Link
3
|
|
Replying To cavanman47: "As a Cavan poster, Monaghan lads won't like this. .
But in my honest opinion, it is 99% down to Conor McManus. He really is that good!
I don't think McCarron or McCarthy would so it week in week out against the top teams. Granted, the 2 lads are still young. And I don't think they have much fire power elsewhere, with even the Hughes bros scoring less than previous seasons." Ah, that old chestnut. The classic post of a Cavan man in denial....
PearseBro (Monaghan) - Posts: 459 - 22/08/2018 20:04:48
2135709
Link
0
|