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Solutions To The Hand Pass In Gaelic Football? Or Traditionalist's Just Stop Whining!

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Yes the game is turning in to basketball but at least in basketball they have rules in place to stop teams taking advantage

i.e.
Back court rule
Shot clock

Would they work in GAA

Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1829 - 17/07/2018 13:56:55    2123141

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The reason for some of the changes in football was to speed up the game. In fact the opposite is the effect. When the side line ball or free was kicked it moved forward into the attacking zone. Now it goes backwards and takes 5 minutes to get there.
Call us traditionalist's or what ever but the game used to be "football". Probably kicked 90% of the time and 10% fisted. High fielded and skill full kicking of the dead ball. Contact hard shouldering, blocking down of the ball are all gone. There was no requirement for black cards, yellow cards, red cards or any other card.
Growing up in a parish that only played football, never missed an All-Ireland and a dad who played for Munster when it was a big deal, I would not go to watch it if it was in the field across the road now. My opinion like it or not. Pat Spillane can yap all he want but his generation were the start of the downfall.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 18/07/2018 23:06:22    2123638

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I suppose it depends where we want to game to go, it's now primarily a possession game rather that a territorial game. Fado, fado when I started playing you were told " let it on and let the next man fight for it". The game has evolved hugely, most of the sideways passing is in response to blanket type defence, where the pass to space just isn't on. Some of the stuff played now would put you to sleep but was it ever any other way? just watch some of the GAA gold. I'd love to see changes to improve things and make the game more open and there's some good ideas out there worth trying but there's no turning the clock back to what the game was. 13 a side might work and free up space, maybe only one pass back to the keeper in a move would also help.

lillyboy (Kildare) - Posts: 429 - 19/07/2018 10:39:40    2123700

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Replying To lillyboy:  "I suppose it depends where we want to game to go, it's now primarily a possession game rather that a territorial game. Fado, fado when I started playing you were told " let it on and let the next man fight for it". The game has evolved hugely, most of the sideways passing is in response to blanket type defence, where the pass to space just isn't on. Some of the stuff played now would put you to sleep but was it ever any other way? just watch some of the GAA gold. I'd love to see changes to improve things and make the game more open and there's some good ideas out there worth trying but there's no turning the clock back to what the game was. 13 a side might work and free up space, maybe only one pass back to the keeper in a move would also help."
Lillyboy the teams Mick o'Connell, Micko Dywire, Joe Lennon, Dermot Early senior and the greats of Galway, Kildare, Meath etc. would not put you asleep. I agree that it won't turn back. However some simple changes would help. If you receive a hand pass you can not give one. In other words the next player must kick it. For god sake it is "foot" ball. You know played with the foot. All free kicks and side line balls must go forward if continuing to be kicked out of the hand. That is another joke the player walking all over the place with the ball in his hand to get a better angle before he kicks it. Seriously can any body say this is a better game than we had. As for blanket type defence. Put three big full forwards in there and kick the ball over the defence and nullify the blanket defence. Especially when the net is rattled a few times.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 19/07/2018 13:56:23    2123762

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Replying To lillyboy:  "I suppose it depends where we want to game to go, it's now primarily a possession game rather that a territorial game. Fado, fado when I started playing you were told " let it on and let the next man fight for it". The game has evolved hugely, most of the sideways passing is in response to blanket type defence, where the pass to space just isn't on. Some of the stuff played now would put you to sleep but was it ever any other way? just watch some of the GAA gold. I'd love to see changes to improve things and make the game more open and there's some good ideas out there worth trying but there's no turning the clock back to what the game was. 13 a side might work and free up space, maybe only one pass back to the keeper in a move would also help."
Lillyboy the teams Mick o'Connell, Micko Dywire, Joe Lennon, Dermot Early senior and the greats of Galway, Kildare, Meath etc. would not put you asleep. I agree that it won't turn back. However some simple changes would help. If you receive a hand pass you can not give one. In other words the next player must kick it. For god sake it is "foot" ball. You know played with the foot. All free kicks and side line balls must go forward if continuing to be kicked out of the hand. That is another joke the player walking all over the place with the ball in his hand to get a better angle before he kicks it. Seriously can any body say this is a better game than we had. As for blanket type defence. Put three big full forwards in there and kick the ball over the defence and nullify the blanket defence. Especially when the net is rattled a few times.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 19/07/2018 14:05:04    2123766

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@ canuck, not arguing that there was great players and some great games back in the day just that it wasn't all great stuff just like now. I agree that free takers stealing yards without sanction is very unfair but I would allow 1 backward pass but then the ball would have to be played forward, but these are all things that should be tried out. I would fear that if the ball had to go forward or if a kick out had to go beyond the 45 that teams would set up even more defensively

lillyboy (Kildare) - Posts: 429 - 19/07/2018 14:40:54    2123781

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Replying To Canuck:  "The reason for some of the changes in football was to speed up the game. In fact the opposite is the effect. When the side line ball or free was kicked it moved forward into the attacking zone. Now it goes backwards and takes 5 minutes to get there.
Call us traditionalist's or what ever but the game used to be "football". Probably kicked 90% of the time and 10% fisted. High fielded and skill full kicking of the dead ball. Contact hard shouldering, blocking down of the ball are all gone. There was no requirement for black cards, yellow cards, red cards or any other card.
Growing up in a parish that only played football, never missed an All-Ireland and a dad who played for Munster when it was a big deal, I would not go to watch it if it was in the field across the road now. My opinion like it or not. Pat Spillane can yap all he want but his generation were the start of the downfall."
Well I remember a lot of the 'great' Kerry Dub matches of the seventies being full of hand passing (maybe more forward in fairness) and hand passed goals. Also the Cork Meath rivalry of the late eighties with scorelines of 11 pts to 9 and 13 pts to 12 so people have short memories. We had a great decade in the nineties and it spoiled us. On a related issue when can RTE take out Brolly and O'Rourke. Do they have to officially retire. The ratings will continue to fall and not necessarily because of the football. Mind you hurling analysts would make you cringe with their ongoing love ins. They are the polar opposite to the football analysts and never criticise it is sickening. The Wex Clare match being a prime example. The game was never in doubt yet you would think Wex were within a whisker and the first 15 mins was like watching paint dry with no intensity, poor shooting. I long for the day we get balanced analysts Gooch, Sean Kavanagh Anthony Daly being notable exceptions.

kiloughter (Galway) - Posts: 1946 - 19/07/2018 19:52:31    2123847

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Replying To kiloughter:  "Well I remember a lot of the 'great' Kerry Dub matches of the seventies being full of hand passing (maybe more forward in fairness) and hand passed goals. Also the Cork Meath rivalry of the late eighties with scorelines of 11 pts to 9 and 13 pts to 12 so people have short memories. We had a great decade in the nineties and it spoiled us. On a related issue when can RTE take out Brolly and O'Rourke. Do they have to officially retire. The ratings will continue to fall and not necessarily because of the football. Mind you hurling analysts would make you cringe with their ongoing love ins. They are the polar opposite to the football analysts and never criticise it is sickening. The Wex Clare match being a prime example. The game was never in doubt yet you would think Wex were within a whisker and the first 15 mins was like watching paint dry with no intensity, poor shooting. I long for the day we get balanced analysts Gooch, Sean Kavanagh Anthony Daly being notable exceptions."
The seventies were the start of the demise of football. The eighties it had self destructed. I understand if many has not witnessed football in the sixties. On the related subject. The hurling analysts can get away with some of the rhetoric spewed out because they are commenting on the greatest field sport in the world. Hurling demands such level of skill, coordination, dexterity, speed, co-ordination, positioning etc. Jumping up catching a small ball coming from 100 yds away at that speed while being tackled by an opponent demands some skill. No matter where I go in the world and show them hurling they are amazed. The numbers playing will never be as great as football because of what it takes to be good at it.
Football used be up there. However it is a bastard hybrid game as played today. Why not take out the foot completely and call it field basket ball. allow throwing (already) etc. No disrespect to the people who like and support it.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 19/07/2018 22:16:33    2123879

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Replying To Canuck:  "The seventies were the start of the demise of football. The eighties it had self destructed. I understand if many has not witnessed football in the sixties. On the related subject. The hurling analysts can get away with some of the rhetoric spewed out because they are commenting on the greatest field sport in the world. Hurling demands such level of skill, coordination, dexterity, speed, co-ordination, positioning etc. Jumping up catching a small ball coming from 100 yds away at that speed while being tackled by an opponent demands some skill. No matter where I go in the world and show them hurling they are amazed. The numbers playing will never be as great as football because of what it takes to be good at it.
Football used be up there. However it is a bastard hybrid game as played today. Why not take out the foot completely and call it field basket ball. allow throwing (already) etc. No disrespect to the people who like and support it."
Agreed about hurling been the greatest game on earth etc. Mind you if one cannot see that i give up. However it is cringeworthy the continuous love in the analysts have with ' we hurling people' lark. There is a reason the hurling heartlands do not really go beyond the confines of a small select number of counties and it is not just to do with the skill levels required. We are reaping the rewards now of not properly looking to develop the game across the country and the cynic in some would feel that the three traditional powers actually like it that way. The best hurling story ever i.e. the emergence of Offaly in the eighties and nineties is nearly back to where it emerged from and you never hear analysts bemoaning how that should be addressed. They don't have continuously tell us it is the best game in the world. We know that already. On changes to football we could be here till God's time but like everything the game will organically progress (fortunately) or regress (unfortunately) even with suttle rule changes.

kiloughter (Galway) - Posts: 1946 - 20/07/2018 15:55:23    2124043

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Back to football.

I suggested the rule change.

To be honest I don't really believe in it particularly.

There is a tactical solution to it. The team out of possession has to leave a minimum of 3 players up the field to mark the back pass. Maybe even 4 players to be honest.

Donegal has 2 men doing it and it was too easy for Dublin to play backwards.

4 men well positioned could really cut it the backwards option.

10 men behind the ball really should be enough to defend with.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4221 - 20/07/2018 18:13:29    2124078

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Replying To Mayonman:  "Yes the game is turning in to basketball but at least in basketball they have rules in place to stop teams taking advantage

i.e.
Back court rule
Shot clock

Would they work in GAA"
A shot clock wouldn't I think.
Back court rule might help.
Similar to a three pointer a kick from play outside the 40 within 5 metres of the sideline worth two points might make things interesting but ultimately it's down to tactics to get around defensive systems.
Some defensive tactics are cyclical, the blanket defence, over handpassing to kill the game etc. Instead of trying to outlaw these tactics coaches can and will find ways to get past these tactics. Going out to win the game rather than fear of losing.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7344 - 20/07/2018 18:55:23    2124089

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Aussie AFL tackle anyone ? - ball moves faster as carrier will be penalised in possession if dragged to the ground. While this changes the game - does it improve it ?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2583 - 20/07/2018 20:08:25    2124124

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Replying To kiloughter:  "Agreed about hurling been the greatest game on earth etc. Mind you if one cannot see that i give up. However it is cringeworthy the continuous love in the analysts have with ' we hurling people' lark. There is a reason the hurling heartlands do not really go beyond the confines of a small select number of counties and it is not just to do with the skill levels required. We are reaping the rewards now of not properly looking to develop the game across the country and the cynic in some would feel that the three traditional powers actually like it that way. The best hurling story ever i.e. the emergence of Offaly in the eighties and nineties is nearly back to where it emerged from and you never hear analysts bemoaning how that should be addressed. They don't have continuously tell us it is the best game in the world. We know that already. On changes to football we could be here till God's time but like everything the game will organically progress (fortunately) or regress (unfortunately) even with suttle rule changes."
Cannot disagree with any thing you say here. Back to football. Different tactical approach by managers and some rule changes. Ball must go forward from frees and side line kicks. Kick outs must go out beyond the 50 and cannot be played back to the goaltender. Enforce a definite striking motion with hand pass and as I stated before if you receive a hand pass you can not deliver one.
The game is played with all the players behind the ball. Because there is no off side place four ball winners on the 21yrd line with two more inside them so they can win it or break it inside to them. The rest deliver that ball in quickly to them with the boot. Yes this may become the new clogged area but the opposition is not going to score from there and mistakes will happen in the attacking zone that will lead to scores. The game now is possession and hold on to the ball. The possession you want is the opposition goalie taking the ball out of his net and facing an immediate new barrage.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 20/07/2018 22:42:40    2124172

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