Replying To jimbodub: "Will you ever give it a rest... seriously
Money only makes a difference if you've got the players to spend it on. You can't coach a donkey into being a race horse.
Seriously though man. Have you not repeated yourself enough on here? Honestly now.. I mean you don't even rate EF yet you want to blame everything else for your failings?
You don't even rate your manager for heaven sake
I see us having Gavin as the biggest advantage over you. I see us having better players as the biggest advantage over you.
We had money in the 00's and won nothing because we weren't good enough.
Teams beat Dublin even with all our advantages because we weren't good enough as we lacked players.
If it was about money why couldn't we win in the 00's? We were spending big then too and played lots of games in CP and had a big population blah blah blah..
We have the best players, we have the best manager and we have the best CB in the country and we have the revenue to invest into all of it.
That's when revenue really makes the difference." Im actually really interested in how the Dublin players will develop in the mid of the next decade, that's really when the investment made in 2005 at grassroots will kick in, if it ever does, hopefully we can hold out until then. ;)
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4441 - 13/06/2018 13:11:42
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Replying To jimbodub: "Will you ever give it a rest... seriously
Money only makes a difference if you've got the players to spend it on. You can't coach a donkey into being a race horse.
Seriously though man. Have you not repeated yourself enough on here? Honestly now.. I mean you don't even rate EF yet you want to blame everything else for your failings?
You don't even rate your manager for heaven sake
I see us having Gavin as the biggest advantage over you. I see us having better players as the biggest advantage over you.
We had money in the 00's and won nothing because we weren't good enough.
Teams beat Dublin even with all our advantages because we weren't good enough as we lacked players.
If it was about money why couldn't we win in the 00's? We were spending big then too and played lots of games in CP and had a big population blah blah blah..
We have the best players, we have the best manager and we have the best CB in the country and we have the revenue to invest into all of it.
That's when revenue really makes the difference." Sure because getting 16.6 million (bearing in mind Cork, in second place in the funding stakes, got 1.1 million) off Croke Park since 2007 has given ye no possible help at all in terms of what Dublin can do with their senior and underage teams in areas such as training, strength and development, medical care, backroom support etc etc. That's without mentioning the money from your official airline partner and the 14 other official sponsors.
To think any rational individual could look at what has gone on with Dublin, how the GAA has completely unbalanced the inter-county scene in Leinster and beyond to benefit solely one county and still maintain Dublin's success is just based on the talent of their players and management and nothing more.
Keep believing that Dubs Keep the heads in the sand Keep thinking God given talent is the only thing behind your domination because AS WE ALL KNOW money, playing at home, having sympathetic match officials in crucial games - sure they don't have any impact in any sport!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Even PSG in Ligue 1 have to play half their games away from home.
I'm glad Kerry achieved what we did without having to beg from cheques from Croke Park to lift us from the mire of constant underachievement. I don't remember Kerry campaigning for massive investment when we went through our few quiet years between 1987 and 1997. The next time Dublin lose an AI final, I suppose they have a report ready to go saying why they need a further 20 million pumped in because Leinster Rugby is taking over!!!!!!!
TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 13/06/2018 13:16:00
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "The same way ye pretent to want to play yer games away from crokepark ?or the same way ye pretend all the money doesn't make a difference?" Sure we're only back from Laois after a successful League campaign touring around the country . You can only put out the players you have against whoever the opposition is and if they're good enough success will follow. We're doing grand for now but that's down to this crop of players . No need for the sour grapes now.
Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 13/06/2018 13:30:35
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "The same way ye pretent to want to play yer games away from crokepark ?or the same way ye pretend all the money doesn't make a difference?" Ah now come on, "The same way ye pretent to want to play yer games away from crokepark" really is that it ? I give up .
superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 13/06/2018 13:44:19
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We've got all your money!! :D
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4441 - 13/06/2018 14:29:18
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Replying To TheHermit: "Sure because getting 16.6 million (bearing in mind Cork, in second place in the funding stakes, got 1.1 million) off Croke Park since 2007 has given ye no possible help at all in terms of what Dublin can do with their senior and underage teams in areas such as training, strength and development, medical care, backroom support etc etc. That's without mentioning the money from your official airline partner and the 14 other official sponsors.
To think any rational individual could look at what has gone on with Dublin, how the GAA has completely unbalanced the inter-county scene in Leinster and beyond to benefit solely one county and still maintain Dublin's success is just based on the talent of their players and management and nothing more.
Keep believing that Dubs Keep the heads in the sand Keep thinking God given talent is the only thing behind your domination because AS WE ALL KNOW money, playing at home, having sympathetic match officials in crucial games - sure they don't have any impact in any sport!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Even PSG in Ligue 1 have to play half their games away from home.
I'm glad Kerry achieved what we did without having to beg from cheques from Croke Park to lift us from the mire of constant underachievement. I don't remember Kerry campaigning for massive investment when we went through our few quiet years between 1987 and 1997. The next time Dublin lose an AI final, I suppose they have a report ready to go saying why they need a further 20 million pumped in because Leinster Rugby is taking over!!!!!!!" Ahh come on now Hermit
All of that has been countered And has been done. Many times.
You've a lot going for you at the moment and plenty to be positive about.
But fair dues you've got your excuses in early.
4 in a row is on. We have the players, management to make it happen. We have always had advantages but without the above it's useless. As was proven in the 00's. Finding started in games development in 2005.
That doesn't explain Jim Gavin being the manager he is or Pat Gilroy and it doesn't explain Cluxton, Nolan, Brogans, Flynn, Connolly, MDMC, Brennan, O'Sullivan, Kev Mc, Andrews, Cullen, Fitzsimons, McCarthy etc etc etc etc..
A simple mathematical calculation proves that they were out of school etc when games development funding started up..
It doesn't explain why they ended up being the footballers they are..
If you think it is then perhaps you shouldn't be correcting exam papers
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20587 - 13/06/2018 14:39:28
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Replying To TheUsername: "Im actually really interested in how the Dublin players will develop in the mid of the next decade, that's really when the investment made in 2005 at grassroots will kick in, if it ever does, hopefully we can hold out until then. ;)" Exactly!!!!
I've tried my best making this point many times but it's just ignored.
How on earth can games development funding since 2005 in the grass roots involving children explain our current team?
The age profiles DO NOT ADD UP
They don't equate to the vast % of Dublin players since 2010 when all this started!!
But this absolutely accurate assessment is completely and conveniently ignored..
Why?
Because it completely debunks their argument.
That is why.
It will be the 2020's when the true impact is judged.
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20587 - 13/06/2018 14:47:01
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Log in....see the Kerry lads at it again....smiles....log out.
Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 13/06/2018 15:16:53
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Replying To TheHermit: "Sure because getting 16.6 million (bearing in mind Cork, in second place in the funding stakes, got 1.1 million) off Croke Park since 2007 has given ye no possible help at all in terms of what Dublin can do with their senior and underage teams in areas such as training, strength and development, medical care, backroom support etc etc. That's without mentioning the money from your official airline partner and the 14 other official sponsors.
To think any rational individual could look at what has gone on with Dublin, how the GAA has completely unbalanced the inter-county scene in Leinster and beyond to benefit solely one county and still maintain Dublin's success is just based on the talent of their players and management and nothing more.
Keep believing that Dubs Keep the heads in the sand Keep thinking God given talent is the only thing behind your domination because AS WE ALL KNOW money, playing at home, having sympathetic match officials in crucial games - sure they don't have any impact in any sport!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Even PSG in Ligue 1 have to play half their games away from home.
I'm glad Kerry achieved what we did without having to beg from cheques from Croke Park to lift us from the mire of constant underachievement. I don't remember Kerry campaigning for massive investment when we went through our few quiet years between 1987 and 1997. The next time Dublin lose an AI final, I suppose they have a report ready to go saying why they need a further 20 million pumped in because Leinster Rugby is taking over!!!!!!!" Well said the hermit ,you're spot on.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 13/06/2018 20:38:34
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Replying To Jackeen: "Log in....see the Kerry lads at it again....smiles....log out." Yeah, it's tired old stuff alright. You can only laugh at it I suppose.
Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 13/06/2018 20:50:15
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: " Replying To TheHermit: "Sure because getting 16.6 million (bearing in mind Cork, in second place in the funding stakes, got 1.1 million) off Croke Park since 2007 has given ye no possible help at all in terms of what Dublin can do with their senior and underage teams in areas such as training, strength and development, medical care, backroom support etc etc. That's without mentioning the money from your official airline partner and the 14 other official sponsors.
To think any rational individual could look at what has gone on with Dublin, how the GAA has completely unbalanced the inter-county scene in Leinster and beyond to benefit solely one county and still maintain Dublin's success is just based on the talent of their players and management and nothing more.
Keep believing that Dubs Keep the heads in the sand Keep thinking God given talent is the only thing behind your domination because AS WE ALL KNOW money, playing at home, having sympathetic match officials in crucial games - sure they don't have any impact in any sport!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Even PSG in Ligue 1 have to play half their games away from home.
I'm glad Kerry achieved what we did without having to beg from cheques from Croke Park to lift us from the mire of constant underachievement. I don't remember Kerry campaigning for massive investment when we went through our few quiet years between 1987 and 1997. The next time Dublin lose an AI final, I suppose they have a report ready to go saying why they need a further 20 million pumped in because Leinster Rugby is taking over!!!!!!!" Well said the hermit ,you're spot on." yerra yerra
superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 13/06/2018 21:17:34
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Replying To Dubh_linn: "Yeah, it's tired old stuff alright. You can only laugh at it I suppose." It's tired old stuff all right, but it's true.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 13/06/2018 22:40:36
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "It's tired old stuff all right, but it's true." Your right it is true , 79 Munster titles 37 All Ireland titles , Munster is as messed up as Leinster :) .
superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 13/06/2018 23:03:28
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Replying To superbluedub: "Your right it is true , 79 Munster titles 37 All Ireland titles , Munster is as messed up as Leinster :) ." Of course it is. Just doesn't suit some people to see it.
kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 854 - 14/06/2018 10:50:41
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Dublin's average winning margin in Leinster under Jim Gavin is 17 points. Says it all.
Barnowl94 (Galway) - Posts: 3150 - 14/06/2018 11:52:07
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A lot of talk about Carlow, Laois, Meath and Kildare on this thread. Hardly a mention of Offaly. In my humble opinion the only Leinster counties who when they have decent teams, say 85% of the potential of Dublin that are capable of toppling Dublin and becoming genuine All Ireland contenders are Offaly and Meath. And if I were to select a third contender in Leinster it would be Louth.
MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 1058 - 14/06/2018 12:35:18
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Replying To MillerX: "A lot of talk about Carlow, Laois, Meath and Kildare on this thread. Hardly a mention of Offaly. In my humble opinion the only Leinster counties who when they have decent teams, say 85% of the potential of Dublin that are capable of toppling Dublin and becoming genuine All Ireland contenders are Offaly and Meath. And if I were to select a third contender in Leinster it would be Louth." The Leinster rankings are, 1. Dublin 2. Laois. 3. Longford. 4. Carlow. 5. Kildare. 6. Meath 7. Westmeath. 8. Louth. 9. Offaly / Wicklow. 10. A.N.Other. The above rankings is probably the main reason why you say, Hardly a mention of Offaly, hardly a mention of Wicklow either even though they stopped offaly in their own back yard on a score line of 1-20 to 1-15, surely you must remember that, sure it was only a couple of weeks ago.
supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2904 - 14/06/2018 20:21:26
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I am talking about counties that when the have a team of potential that that team will deliver to its full potential. For over 50 years I have been following Leinster football and listening to what Kildare and Laois were going to do and yet they have always come up short. It's as if they don't know how to win all the way through. Current rankings are fine and probably an accurate reflection of recent results. In Meath we know that we are currently well off the pace but there were glimpses against Tyrone that showed we may not be as bad as we and others think. I would imagine that Offaly people feel the same way. Carlow, Laois and Longford are the success stories, after Dublin of this year's Leinster Championship, the question is can they build on that? My guess is that not all of them will but I would be delighted to be proved wrong.
One of the problems with the current Meath team is that while they are probably on a given day able to beat say Laois, Carlow or Longford, given another bite at the cherry, the Meath public do not rate them until they know that they are ready to go toe to toe with Dublin or any other team in the country for that matter. It is a confidence thing and I believe that this rubs off the team. There are green shoots however on our horizon and our minors and u-20s are again competitive. We seem to have arrested the trend of recent years where decent to good minors teams were dreadful at u-21 level.
Overall though the standard of football in Leinster is not great and I have seen some fair drubbings being handed out over the years. Apart from Ulster in recent years, the same pertains in the other three provinces.
Another thing that some people may not know is that while currently Kilkenny do not compete in the Leinster Senior Championship, I remember a time when Fermanagh did not enter a team in the Ulster Senior Championship, look at them now and Limerick likewise did not compete in Munster. Then a year or two after re entering the Munster Championship they defeated Cork but lost out to Kerry in the final, so other provinces have also had their problems.
MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 1058 - 14/06/2018 21:57:52
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Replying To MillerX: "I am talking about counties that when the have a team of potential that that team will deliver to its full potential. For over 50 years I have been following Leinster football and listening to what Kildare and Laois were going to do and yet they have always come up short. It's as if they don't know how to win all the way through. Current rankings are fine and probably an accurate reflection of recent results. In Meath we know that we are currently well off the pace but there were glimpses against Tyrone that showed we may not be as bad as we and others think. I would imagine that Offaly people feel the same way. Carlow, Laois and Longford are the success stories, after Dublin of this year's Leinster Championship, the question is can they build on that? My guess is that not all of them will but I would be delighted to be proved wrong.
One of the problems with the current Meath team is that while they are probably on a given day able to beat say Laois, Carlow or Longford, given another bite at the cherry, the Meath public do not rate them until they know that they are ready to go toe to toe with Dublin or any other team in the country for that matter. It is a confidence thing and I believe that this rubs off the team. There are green shoots however on our horizon and our minors and u-20s are again competitive. We seem to have arrested the trend of recent years where decent to good minors teams were dreadful at u-21 level.
Overall though the standard of football in Leinster is not great and I have seen some fair drubbings being handed out over the years. Apart from Ulster in recent years, the same pertains in the other three provinces.
Another thing that some people may not know is that while currently Kilkenny do not compete in the Leinster Senior Championship, I remember a time when Fermanagh did not enter a team in the Ulster Senior Championship, look at them now and Limerick likewise did not compete in Munster. Then a year or two after re entering the Munster Championship they defeated Cork but lost out to Kerry in the final, so other provinces have also had their problems." Its an interesting point you make, here is a stat that does say something about what your talking about
Between 1958 and 1997 Dublin Meath and Offaly won every single leinster title between them, the only one was different winner was longford in 1968. If you took Meath or Offaly out of the equation in those year Dublin could have won every leinster title between 1958 and 1997, Dublin could have won nealry 40 leinster titles in a row in nearly 5 decades in the 50s 60s 70s 80s 90s . Dublin have always been strong in leinster.
Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1067 - 15/06/2018 05:26:57
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Your not the only one that's pushing for Offaly, the media is taking advantage of every available opportunity to push Offaly into the public eye, according to the home page, it said "Rouse had one question to ask each player." That's a question that previous managers have asked the same players. I'm sure John Evans asked the Wicklow lads a similar question, but apparently it didn't appeal to the media in the same way.
supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2904 - 15/06/2018 12:55:30
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