National Forum

Is Leinster Football Dead And Buried?

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Replying To 37thHeaven:  "We are worried about the future health of the game going forward

If the Monster the GAA created could destroy a vibrant Football province like Leinster (great traditions and bigger populations than the others) there is nothing stopping to the AI becoming a wasteland and irrelevant in Irish society)"
Oh I think it has survived just fine given Kerrys outrageous successi over the years. Just cos you're not winning, doesn't mean there's a problem. The arrogance.

Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 11/06/2018 23:08:48    2110321

Link

Replying To 37thHeaven:  "We are worried about the future health of the game going forward

If the Monster the GAA created could destroy a vibrant Football province like Leinster (great traditions and bigger populations than the others) there is nothing stopping to the AI becoming a wasteland and irrelevant in Irish society)"
Did you feel it was becoming a wasteland in the early 1980s when ye were winning all those finals? Leinster was competitive then. Munster wasn't.

The Leinster championship is very weak. Longford and Wicklow are no match for Dublin. It is Division 4 versus Division 1. If Limerick or Waterford played Kerry, Kerry would also be 1/200 and the handicap would be +20 or whatever.

If Dublin played Meath they would not be 1/200 and the handicap might be plus 6 or something. Like it was for Kerry v Clare. In both cases it is Division 1 versus Division 2.

Longford were plucky enough yesterday. They got hammered but they gave it a go. Playing with 14 men didn't help. They would not have won but had he (McGibney) had not gotten himself sent off, perhaps Robbie Smyth might have seen a bit more action, a bit more space,a few more scores..a closer game, don't know..all ifs and buts..the gap isn't a Leinster one..it is Division 1 v Division 4.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 11/06/2018 23:23:16    2110327

Link

Replying To 37thHeaven:  "We wont be 1/200 to beat Cork or have a 20 point handicap, it'll be an actual contest"
Go back and read what you said about Leinster teams knowing they wouldn't beat Dublin, then address my questions about the Munster teams you brought up versus Kerry. Don't engage in deflection and avoidance. Either you can back up your point or you can't.

kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 854 - 11/06/2018 23:28:15    2110331

Link

Replying To 37thHeaven:  "We wont be 1/200 to beat Cork or have a 20 point handicap, it'll be an actual contest"
no contest , result is a forgone conclusion

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 12/06/2018 10:37:32    2110417

Link

Replying To 37thHeaven:  "We are worried about the future health of the game going forward

If the Monster the GAA created could destroy a vibrant Football province like Leinster (great traditions and bigger populations than the others) there is nothing stopping to the AI becoming a wasteland and irrelevant in Irish society)"
yous didn't give a monkeys when winning 79 munster titles and 37 all Irelands , but now you are worried about the future health of the game going forward , yea right .

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 12/06/2018 10:43:47    2110420

Link

This is turning into a bit of a funny thread.

Essentially its competitive sport, the narrative here is Dublin are to good for everyone, provincially and nationally.

Maybe they are and its time to just accept it, maybe its the greatest team in GAA history and this period of results is something the GAA has ever seen.

A lot of football to be played this season yet, to be waving the victory flag, but essentially this is venting thread because Dublin are so good and other counties have an axe to grind with it.

How anyone can make a generalised comment about Leinster football when Dublin have only played two counties in it this year is beyond me.

Certainly the deck is stacked against them with Dublin in Leinster. But there are 9 counties in Leinster that Dublin wont play in the Leinster championship this season. So Dublin is only an element of the problem. There are four spots in S8's up for grabs if you play Dublin or not, same in Munster really.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 12/06/2018 11:14:11    2110441

Link

Replying To kildare73:  "Go back and read what you said about Leinster teams knowing they wouldn't beat Dublin, then address my questions about the Munster teams you brought up versus Kerry. Don't engage in deflection and avoidance. Either you can back up your point or you can't."
Of course Clare believed they were going to win!!! Why do you think the handicap was only 6 points and bear in mind the game was in Killarney where we haven't lost since 1995 so thats worth at least 4 points of the handicap.

They had a bad day, they are a normal county and aren't robots it happens!!!!

I don't even need to talk about whether or not the Rebels believe they can beat Kerry least of all on their home turf!!!!!!!

I never criticised the other Leinster teams - I admire and respect their tradition and I hugely enjoyed watching it in the 90's and 00's it was always the most enjoyable of the 4 provinces in terms of colour, skill, enjoyment and unpredictability my worry is if all that can be wiped away so quickly , what is stopping the AI itself becoming irrelevant. If a team that has won every game this year can't even be competitive then it prove beyond doubt it is finished which is sad

37thHeaven (Kerry) - Posts: 102 - 12/06/2018 14:34:27    2110543

Link

Replying To 37thHeaven:  "Of course Clare believed they were going to win!!! Why do you think the handicap was only 6 points and bear in mind the game was in Killarney where we haven't lost since 1995 so thats worth at least 4 points of the handicap.

They had a bad day, they are a normal county and aren't robots it happens!!!!

I don't even need to talk about whether or not the Rebels believe they can beat Kerry least of all on their home turf!!!!!!!

I never criticised the other Leinster teams - I admire and respect their tradition and I hugely enjoyed watching it in the 90's and 00's it was always the most enjoyable of the 4 provinces in terms of colour, skill, enjoyment and unpredictability my worry is if all that can be wiped away so quickly , what is stopping the AI itself becoming irrelevant. If a team that has won every game this year can't even be competitive then it prove beyond doubt it is finished which is sad"
Ah give over, Laois were in div 4 all year and have done well to reach a Leinster Final but teeing it up that if they can't now beat the best team in the country is the death knell of a province isn't logical. You wouldn't apply that philosophy to a Munster team so you can't lay it at the door of anyone in Leinster either. Clare did indeed have a bad day but everyone was well aware they hadn't a hope of beating Kerry, I contend they even knew it themselves and they played like it too. What I will say is, if you are declaring Leinster dead and you fear the same thing will happen in the rest of the championship then it's up to counties like yours to stop it happening. I actually think your lads are an exciting bunch coming along so we'll see what happens. On the evidence I've seen over last year and this year Leinster is no real worse off than anywhere else. Every province has it's problems. P.s. Kerry can play Cork anywhere these days and Cork still wouldn't win. Kerry will have just as easy a provincial title as Dublin will.

kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 854 - 12/06/2018 17:22:27    2110630

Link

Replying To kildare73:  "Ah give over, Laois were in div 4 all year and have done well to reach a Leinster Final but teeing it up that if they can't now beat the best team in the country is the death knell of a province isn't logical. You wouldn't apply that philosophy to a Munster team so you can't lay it at the door of anyone in Leinster either. Clare did indeed have a bad day but everyone was well aware they hadn't a hope of beating Kerry, I contend they even knew it themselves and they played like it too. What I will say is, if you are declaring Leinster dead and you fear the same thing will happen in the rest of the championship then it's up to counties like yours to stop it happening. I actually think your lads are an exciting bunch coming along so we'll see what happens. On the evidence I've seen over last year and this year Leinster is no real worse off than anywhere else. Every province has it's problems. P.s. Kerry can play Cork anywhere these days and Cork still wouldn't win. Kerry will have just as easy a provincial title as Dublin will."
Every county bar Waterford has been extremely competitive with Kerry in the 21st century

I didn't say Laois had to win - I said it'd be sad if a team who hasn't been psychologically damaged by the Juggernaut couldn't compete it'd be sad. Look at the improvement of Meath and Kildare and conversely Wicklow who beat Offaly (who had a great win) and Westmeath (who had only 6 players from last year)

Most observers said Clare would be very competitive and that was based on sound logic - Clare would have beaten us last year if they they didn't hit the crossbar while up by 3 points. They started badly in an intimidating environment - also they had a lot of new young players in their team

Leinster should in theory be the strongest province from top to bottom - Given interest in Football and Population and the fact it's economically strongest than the Western Seaboard - players not working 2/3 hours away from training base, my point is if Leinster is conquered the other Provinces have even less chance of competing against them. If the Blue Behemoth was rotated around the provinces at all ages you are 100% right Leinster would be shown to be no worsethan any other province, it would free them up psychologically

The Kerry 00's team which was much stronger than this decade and they suffered plenty of defeats and hefty ones at that at the hands of Cork let me tell you, Yes they have been below par since 2012 but still they should have beaten us in 2015 and have some very good players coming through and will have home advantage the next 3 times they play Kerry so that will be of huge benefit

37thHeaven (Kerry) - Posts: 102 - 12/06/2018 17:41:29    2110640

Link

Replying To 37thHeaven:  "Every county bar Waterford has been extremely competitive with Kerry in the 21st century

I didn't say Laois had to win - I said it'd be sad if a team who hasn't been psychologically damaged by the Juggernaut couldn't compete it'd be sad. Look at the improvement of Meath and Kildare and conversely Wicklow who beat Offaly (who had a great win) and Westmeath (who had only 6 players from last year)

Most observers said Clare would be very competitive and that was based on sound logic - Clare would have beaten us last year if they they didn't hit the crossbar while up by 3 points. They started badly in an intimidating environment - also they had a lot of new young players in their team

Leinster should in theory be the strongest province from top to bottom - Given interest in Football and Population and the fact it's economically strongest than the Western Seaboard - players not working 2/3 hours away from training base, my point is if Leinster is conquered the other Provinces have even less chance of competing against them. If the Blue Behemoth was rotated around the provinces at all ages you are 100% right Leinster would be shown to be no worsethan any other province, it would free them up psychologically

The Kerry 00's team which was much stronger than this decade and they suffered plenty of defeats and hefty ones at that at the hands of Cork let me tell you, Yes they have been below par since 2012 but still they should have beaten us in 2015 and have some very good players coming through and will have home advantage the next 3 times they play Kerry so that will be of huge benefit"
What are you on about ? Kerry hit Clare for 32 pts with a load of kids making debuts , could have beaten you last year , but they didn't did they ? Kerry have total domination in practically every decade in munster 79 titles !! more than double Corks total ,tipp 9 titles , Clare 2 titles , poor ole Waterford and limerick 1 title each , you trying to say rotating Kerry around the provinces wouldn't free up these munster counties psychologically ? Kerry will win 6 titles in a row in a few weeks, and with all that young talent coming through , another 6 at least will follow, munster is as messed up as leinster .

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 12/06/2018 19:17:43    2110686

Link

Another good win for Meath this time in the Junior division, Meath and Kildare Leinster final.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 12/06/2018 20:46:49    2110746

Link

Replying To superbluedub:  "What are you on about ? Kerry hit Clare for 32 pts with a load of kids making debuts , could have beaten you last year , but they didn't did they ? Kerry have total domination in practically every decade in munster 79 titles !! more than double Corks total ,tipp 9 titles , Clare 2 titles , poor ole Waterford and limerick 1 title each , you trying to say rotating Kerry around the provinces wouldn't free up these munster counties psychologically ? Kerry will win 6 titles in a row in a few weeks, and with all that young talent coming through , another 6 at least will follow, munster is as messed up as leinster ."
Like I said you can disregard that game. 32 points blah blah blah the Handicap was 6 points and that was taking into account the game was in Killarney, There will be skin and hair flying in Cork Saturday week and we will get a lot clearer picture what the kids are made of then. You have to realise there are only 6 counties in Munster it's a lot lot tougher destroy a 12 team province especially when Football is by far the dominant code..............................

https://twitter.com/askpaddypower/status/1006595412336304129?s=21

Look at this and try to say with a straight face that this isn't absurd, thats what another 28 consecutive wins which will include players who are between 10 and 12 years old right now but this is supposedly a Golden Generation who will decline organically.............................................

37thHeaven (Kerry) - Posts: 102 - 12/06/2018 23:16:45    2110821

Link

Replying To superbluedub:  "What are you on about ? Kerry hit Clare for 32 pts with a load of kids making debuts , could have beaten you last year , but they didn't did they ? Kerry have total domination in practically every decade in munster 79 titles !! more than double Corks total ,tipp 9 titles , Clare 2 titles , poor ole Waterford and limerick 1 title each , you trying to say rotating Kerry around the provinces wouldn't free up these munster counties psychologically ? Kerry will win 6 titles in a row in a few weeks, and with all that young talent coming through , another 6 at least will follow, munster is as messed up as leinster ."
Why don't the GAA change the rules and make it that the 4 provincial winners go straight into the first round of the qualifiers the following year, that would give everyone a chance.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 13/06/2018 01:23:37    2110833

Link

A bookie never scored a point.Never mind the odds it's the scores that matter.
Kerry have another Munster title in the bag and with all the other counties playing hurling sure what would you expect. Laughing all the way to Munster titles for 100 + years with nothing but a few run outs to warm up for a semifinal. Jaysus, but there's no doubt about it but ye had it handy and there's no point pretending ye want change down there. Deflect the attention anywhere else , it's Dublins turn now so we'll have to listen to it until someone else takes over and then it'll be , go after them time. It really is transparent stuff.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 13/06/2018 07:57:02    2110850

Link

Replying To 37thHeaven:  "Like I said you can disregard that game. 32 points blah blah blah the Handicap was 6 points and that was taking into account the game was in Killarney, There will be skin and hair flying in Cork Saturday week and we will get a lot clearer picture what the kids are made of then. You have to realise there are only 6 counties in Munster it's a lot lot tougher destroy a 12 team province especially when Football is by far the dominant code..............................

https://twitter.com/askpaddypower/status/1006595412336304129?s=21

Look at this and try to say with a straight face that this isn't absurd, thats what another 28 consecutive wins which will include players who are between 10 and 12 years old right now but this is supposedly a Golden Generation who will decline organically............................................."
So we can disregard that game , 32 points blah blah blah , because of the handicap how convenient , I don't gamble so know nothing about this handicap you keep on about , all I know is
Kerry have dominated Munster for over 100 years and will continue to do so , 79 Munster titles , 37 All Ireland titles , are going for 6 in a row Munster titles , and there conveyor belt of young talent have won 4 in a row Minor All Ireland titles now that's absurd !! , no decline organically here ..………………………. As for destroying provinces , Kerry are leading the way there lol .

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 13/06/2018 08:37:21    2110860

Link

Replying To 37thHeaven:  "Every county bar Waterford has been extremely competitive with Kerry in the 21st century

I didn't say Laois had to win - I said it'd be sad if a team who hasn't been psychologically damaged by the Juggernaut couldn't compete it'd be sad. Look at the improvement of Meath and Kildare and conversely Wicklow who beat Offaly (who had a great win) and Westmeath (who had only 6 players from last year)

Most observers said Clare would be very competitive and that was based on sound logic - Clare would have beaten us last year if they they didn't hit the crossbar while up by 3 points. They started badly in an intimidating environment - also they had a lot of new young players in their team

Leinster should in theory be the strongest province from top to bottom - Given interest in Football and Population and the fact it's economically strongest than the Western Seaboard - players not working 2/3 hours away from training base, my point is if Leinster is conquered the other Provinces have even less chance of competing against them. If the Blue Behemoth was rotated around the provinces at all ages you are 100% right Leinster would be shown to be no worsethan any other province, it would free them up psychologically

The Kerry 00's team which was much stronger than this decade and they suffered plenty of defeats and hefty ones at that at the hands of Cork let me tell you, Yes they have been below par since 2012 but still they should have beaten us in 2015 and have some very good players coming through and will have home advantage the next 3 times they play Kerry so that will be of huge benefit"
Every county bar Waterford has been extremely competitive with Kerry in the 21st century

Well that's fairly easy to check:

Cork P 28 W 17 D 6 L 5 - average winning margin: 2.86 points
Limerick P 9 W 8 D 1 L 0 - average winning margin: 6.00 points
Waterford P 3 W 3 D 0 L 0 - average winning margin: 17.00 points
Clare P 9 W 9 D 0 L 0 - average winning margin: 12.11 points
Tipperary P 10 W 10 D 0 L 0 - average winning margin: 11.70 points

I don't know how you define "extremely competitive" but it greatly differs from my definition.

I call shenanigans on you!

Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 567 - 13/06/2018 11:02:44    2110912

Link

Was listening to a Laois player on Newstalk last night & he did a great interview about hoew much getting to the Leinster final means to them.
He spoke about how one of the players who had lost his father during the week was back at training on Thursday night & how all his family were at the Carlow game. They seem to have a great bond in the dressing room & it brought home to me that there is more to GAA than winning medals & championships.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 13/06/2018 11:37:08    2110937

Link

Replying To Dubh_linn:  "A bookie never scored a point.Never mind the odds it's the scores that matter.
Kerry have another Munster title in the bag and with all the other counties playing hurling sure what would you expect. Laughing all the way to Munster titles for 100 + years with nothing but a few run outs to warm up for a semifinal. Jaysus, but there's no doubt about it but ye had it handy and there's no point pretending ye want change down there. Deflect the attention anywhere else , it's Dublins turn now so we'll have to listen to it until someone else takes over and then it'll be , go after them time. It really is transparent stuff."
The same way ye pretent to want to play yer games away from crokepark ?or the same way ye pretend all the money doesn't make a difference?

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 13/06/2018 12:43:30    2110995

Link

Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "The same way ye pretent to want to play yer games away from crokepark ?or the same way ye pretend all the money doesn't make a difference?"
Will you ever give it a rest... seriously

Money only makes a difference if you've got the players to spend it on. You can't coach a donkey into being a race horse.

Seriously though man. Have you not repeated yourself enough on here? Honestly now.. I mean you don't even rate EF yet you want to blame everything else for your failings?

You don't even rate your manager for heaven sake

I see us having Gavin as the biggest advantage over you. I see us having better players as the biggest advantage over you.

We had money in the 00's and won nothing because we weren't good enough.

Teams beat Dublin even with all our advantages because we weren't good enough as we lacked players.

If it was about money why couldn't we win in the 00's? We were spending big then too and played lots of games in CP and had a big population blah blah blah..

We have the best players, we have the best manager and we have the best CB in the country and we have the revenue to invest into all of it.

That's when revenue really makes the difference.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 13/06/2018 12:57:17    2111003

Link

Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "The same way ye pretent to want to play yer games away from crokepark ?or the same way ye pretend all the money doesn't make a difference?"
Been down this road before , not Dublin's decision were they play " as you well know" and Dublin supporters always travel in big numbers , Kerry not doing to bad with money either

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 13/06/2018 12:59:41    2111005

Link