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Replying To TheUsername: "I wonder if you transplanted any of Meath, Kildare or Westmeath to Munster or Connacht would they be competitive for provincal honors, more so then in Leinster. Hypothetical I know.
Momentum and the winning habit are some of the small margins in good team development." I think they would.
For every team in Leinster their season is very defined by whether they are in Dublin's side of the draw.
Getting to a Leinster final is very important for a team's prospects.
Getting to the final avoids 2 rounds of qualifiers.
The draw can make a big difference as to whether a player wants to stick around for the year or not.
Over time that sort of thing makes a difference.
Then for the lesser counties they can be very far aware from an All Ireland quarterfinal. Connacht and Munster teams are much more likely to sneak a favorable draw get to a Provincial final and be 1 game away from the All Ireland series.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4207 - 11/05/2018 20:16:06
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I think the AIC needs a Blockbuster promotional launch / facelift -
Have a Super 18 (NFL top 14, plus prior 2 Div 3 promoted and prior year 2 POSe Finalists) with 6 mouthwatering 'Inter-Prov' groups of 3 (playing once) to contrast with the retained bland (outside Ulster) Prov Championships.
Top 2 in each group and 4 Prov Champs to AI Sam KO Rd of 16 (Champs qualifying from group as well get a bye to AI QFs, revert to KO).
To ensure no dead rubbers, the 1st game winner in a group plays again in the 3rd game.
Other 14 in POSe Cup - 4x3 and 1 two-legged Div 4 pair.
In this Tier 2, maybe best to have 'Intra-Prov' groups with local rivalries - e.g. is there more edge to Carlow beating Wexford rather than Antrim ?
Best 3 2nds from 4x3 and 5 winners to POSe QFs.
The Final 2 go up to Sam Super 18 the next year, while all 14 pursue Sam as well via the Provs.
Does this work ?
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 11/05/2018 22:49:30
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That should read - 1st match LOSER plays again in the 3rd match (when 2 advance), or 1st match WINNER again in 3rd match (when 1 advances)
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 11/05/2018 22:56:11
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Replying To kildare73: "Ok and then ask yourself why Kildare had a 9 point defeat to Dublin last year while Monaghan and Tyrone had I think 11 and 14 point defeats respectively? These are supposed to be the best two teams in Ulster. Its not just Leinster thats uncompetitive, its the whole championship with massive exemption of Mayo. No point in bashing Leinster teams when the rest fail to an equal or even larger degree. It isn't just a Leinster failing. Plus all the other provincial finals last year were double digit losses for the losers. There wasn't one good final among them." Have to agree. Everyone talks about how competitive the ulster championship is. Yet, Dublin have well beaten any team that comes out of there over last 5 yrs or so. Donegal had a spell, but last year longford went to ballybofey and could've won the game and beat the ulster champions in the qualifiers two years ago, along with down in an away fixture as well. It's not only leinster teams that suffer at hands of dubs. We could all talk about how competitive our championship is, when they're not in it. I don't mean to be disrespectful to the ulster championship, as I enjoy the Competitiveness of it, either. I think any other game, is competitive in the leinster championship. Then you look at the ground that Carlow are making as well. Facts speak for themselves. If anybody thinks that these counties in leinster are behind the dubs because of lack of hard work, they are deluding themselves. A pick of 1.2 million, against a pick the size of Lucan or swords??? that what Dublin playing my team, longford,is like. However there are ways, in the short term, of levelling the playing slightly. If longford or laois or Carlow etc, teams in divs 3 and 4, are drawn to play Dublin, let the div 3 or 4 team have home advantage. In fairness to Tomas o Shea, he agreed when I tweeted him this, that the problem is not lack of hard work it's pick. He also agreed with home advantage idea. In fairness to him he's a Gaelic football man, who wants to see that game progressing, with more teams developing and becoming more competitive. He wants this and what I took from his article was, that he was asking the question of the gaa, what their plans were to try and make this happen. If they dont do something, teams like mine, are in serious trouble. A different discussion, I know, but I have never observed as many young kids playing rugby here, as I have now. In years to come, the rest of us will be watching rugby, while 3 or four contest an all Ireland football title???!!!!
Longfordbaz (Longford) - Posts: 145 - 11/05/2018 23:50:24
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Replying To Longfordbaz: "Have to agree. Everyone talks about how competitive the ulster championship is. Yet, Dublin have well beaten any team that comes out of there over last 5 yrs or so. Donegal had a spell, but last year longford went to ballybofey and could've won the game and beat the ulster champions in the qualifiers two years ago, along with down in an away fixture as well. It's not only leinster teams that suffer at hands of dubs. We could all talk about how competitive our championship is, when they're not in it. I don't mean to be disrespectful to the ulster championship, as I enjoy the Competitiveness of it, either. I think any other game, is competitive in the leinster championship. Then you look at the ground that Carlow are making as well. Facts speak for themselves. If anybody thinks that these counties in leinster are behind the dubs because of lack of hard work, they are deluding themselves. A pick of 1.2 million, against a pick the size of Lucan or swords??? that what Dublin playing my team, longford,is like. However there are ways, in the short term, of levelling the playing slightly. If longford or laois or Carlow etc, teams in divs 3 and 4, are drawn to play Dublin, let the div 3 or 4 team have home advantage. In fairness to Tomas o Shea, he agreed when I tweeted him this, that the problem is not lack of hard work it's pick. He also agreed with home advantage idea. In fairness to him he's a Gaelic football man, who wants to see that game progressing, with more teams developing and becoming more competitive. He wants this and what I took from his article was, that he was asking the question of the gaa, what their plans were to try and make this happen. If they dont do something, teams like mine, are in serious trouble. A different discussion, I know, but I have never observed as many young kids playing rugby here, as I have now. In years to come, the rest of us will be watching rugby, while 3 or four contest an all Ireland football title???!!!!" Thats a very good idea mate, i would be behind it very logical. I dont think it would happen in reality with Dublin being a cash cow, but from a sporting point of view its an excellent idea. Bar HQ i couldn't see much resistance to it either.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 12/05/2018 08:41:49
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Replying To Longfordbaz: "Have to agree. Everyone talks about how competitive the ulster championship is. Yet, Dublin have well beaten any team that comes out of there over last 5 yrs or so. Donegal had a spell, but last year longford went to ballybofey and could've won the game and beat the ulster champions in the qualifiers two years ago, along with down in an away fixture as well. It's not only leinster teams that suffer at hands of dubs. We could all talk about how competitive our championship is, when they're not in it. I don't mean to be disrespectful to the ulster championship, as I enjoy the Competitiveness of it, either. I think any other game, is competitive in the leinster championship. Then you look at the ground that Carlow are making as well. Facts speak for themselves. If anybody thinks that these counties in leinster are behind the dubs because of lack of hard work, they are deluding themselves. A pick of 1.2 million, against a pick the size of Lucan or swords??? that what Dublin playing my team, longford,is like. However there are ways, in the short term, of levelling the playing slightly. If longford or laois or Carlow etc, teams in divs 3 and 4, are drawn to play Dublin, let the div 3 or 4 team have home advantage. In fairness to Tomas o Shea, he agreed when I tweeted him this, that the problem is not lack of hard work it's pick. He also agreed with home advantage idea. In fairness to him he's a Gaelic football man, who wants to see that game progressing, with more teams developing and becoming more competitive. He wants this and what I took from his article was, that he was asking the question of the gaa, what their plans were to try and make this happen. If they dont do something, teams like mine, are in serious trouble. A different discussion, I know, but I have never observed as many young kids playing rugby here, as I have now. In years to come, the rest of us will be watching rugby, while 3 or four contest an all Ireland football title???!!!!" You talk a lot of sense.
I worry a little about GAA versus rugby too.
I really worry that the GAA structures aren't very appropriate for the modern world.
The problem with the intercounty game is easily seen. How can you have an interest competition when 1 of the competitive entities dwarfs all others in terms of resources, ie player pool, financing, infrastructure resources, coaching pool. Anyone talking away Dublin's success as being cyclical is a fool.
The threat of rugby is very real in Leinster. Leinster rugby is making a concerted push right now into non traditional areas. It's Leinster rugby in running coaching sessions in Meath primary schools not GAA.
There's a real problem where the GAA is competing against a fully professional competitive entity who are incentivized to improve their playing pool.
The way the GAA is structured with Provincial councils below central councils is not great.
Provincial councils are not competitive entities, they do not have the same drive for success as Leinster rugby or indeed Dublin GAA.
The Leinster council controls the games development in the rest of Leinster outside of Dublin. It doesn't have the same drive for success.
County boards have this drive for success but they don't have the resources or support to compete with Leinster rugby.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4207 - 12/05/2018 09:14:04
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Replying To TheUsername: "Thats a very good idea mate, i would be behind it very logical. I dont think it would happen in reality with Dublin being a cash cow, but from a sporting point of view its an excellent idea. Bar HQ i couldn't see much resistance to it either." Username why can't Dublin county board with all its money build a stadium that can hold 30/40 thousand? Something fit for purpose, couldn't ye sell Parnell park to help fund a new stadium out in that 10 acre site ye bought last year?
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 12/05/2018 12:18:56
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Username why can't Dublin county board with all its money build a stadium that can hold 30/40 thousand? Something fit for purpose, couldn't ye sell Parnell park to help fund a new stadium out in that 10 acre site ye bought last year?" Building a 30/40k stadium would be a massive waste of precious resources, that are much better spent on investment in grassroots.
There is no need for another stadium in Dublin.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13704 - 12/05/2018 12:40:31
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Replying To TheUsername: "Another slant though, a team outside of Leinster hasn't won an All Ireland since 2014.
Munster 2014
Ulster 2012
Connacht 2001
I think its all well and good saying Leinster is weak, but other provincial teams arent being massively successful either, when faced with he same adversity i.e. Dublin. If you look at Munster win in 2014 and Ulsters win 2012 both were achieved by not playing Dublin.
Im not really sure Leinster is significantly weaker then anywhere else if i am being honest. Its just they get to play Dublin a lot earlier and dont have the opportunity to avoid them." Agreed.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 12/05/2018 13:39:33
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Replying To MesAmis: "Building a 30/40k stadium would be a massive waste of precious resources, that are much better spent on investment in grassroots.
There is no need for another stadium in Dublin." Who's precious resources though?
kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 854 - 12/05/2018 14:04:46
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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Username why can't Dublin county board with all its money build a stadium that can hold 30/40 thousand? Something fit for purpose, couldn't ye sell Parnell park to help fund a new stadium out in that 10 acre site ye bought last year?" I don't understand why that is needed?
A tonne of money went into Croke Park, why shouldn't it be used?
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4207 - 12/05/2018 17:00:09
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Dublin have dominated the whole of the landscape of leinster for generations. It shows how hard is to beat Dublin and for other team to win leinster titles. How hard it is to get out of Dublins shadow. Like Dublin winnng three titles in a row in leinster wouldnt be a big event. Kilkenny or kerry winning mutliple provincial titles is not a big thing or an issue eitheir.
But in leinster teams winning back to back leinster titles is very rare. While the leinster has been competitive in the past where you have had at least two to hree top div 1 team s in the provience every decade. For a team to break out from under Dublins shadow it happens very rarely.Teams putting leinsters back to back, two or three in row leinster titles back to back, how often does it happen. Once a blue moon.
In 130 years outside Dublin only on 13 occassions in leinster footbal hisory have teams put leinster titles back to back . Only 4 times in the last 50 years has a team put leinster titles back to back outside Dublin I think that is very low number and a very revealing statistic. In that it shows how hard for a team outside Dublin to have consistent sucess in the leinster championship . Its 27 years since a team in leinster has won 2 in a row leinster titles other then Dublin . While Dublin have put mutiple leinster titles back to back on 12 occassions and that includes winnnig 5 leinster titles in a row on 3 occassions and winning 6 leinster titles in a row on 1 occasion and winning 7 leinster titles in a row on 1 occasion ( This is the current run Dublin r on in leinster).
Below are all the leinster titles counties have won back to back in Leinster football History ( Excluding Dublin)
1 Meath 1990 1991
2 Meath 1986 1987 1988
3 Offaly 1980 1981 1982
4 Offaly 1971 1972 1973
5 Meath 1966 1967
6 Offaly 1960 1961
7 8 Meath 1951 1952
8 Meath 1939 1940
9 Laois 1936 1937 1938
10 kildare 1930 1931
11 Kildare 1926 1927 1928 1929
12 Wexford 1913 1914 1915 1916 1917 1918
13 louth 1909 1910
Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1067 - 12/05/2018 17:17:24
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Who's precious resources though?
kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 466 - 12/05/2018 14:04:46 2099816
Dublin's and everyone's.
Why waste a load of cash?
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13704 - 12/05/2018 17:18:10
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Replying To MesAmis: "Who's precious resources though?
kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 466 - 12/05/2018 14:04:46 2099816
Dublin's and everyone's.
Why waste a load of cash?" I actually think it will happen, more so to facilitate the underage teams, club game , the women and smaller hurling games. 30k stadium that will eventually replace Parnell Park.
Can't ever see the GAA moving the senior football team outside of Croke Park for games in Dublin if I'm honest.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 12/05/2018 17:30:05
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Replying To TheUsername: " Replying To MesAmis: "Who's precious resources though?
kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 466 - 12/05/2018 14:04:46 2099816
Dublin's and everyone's.
Why waste a load of cash?" I actually think it will happen, more so to facilitate the underage teams, club game , the women and smaller hurling games. 30k stadium that will eventually replace Parnell Park. Can't ever see the GAA moving the senior football team outside of Croke Park for games in Dublin if I'm honest."
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 12/05/2018 21:59:32
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Replying To Furlong1949: "Dublin have dominated the whole of the landscape of leinster for generations. It shows how hard is to beat Dublin and for other team to win leinster titles. How hard it is to get out of Dublins shadow. Like Dublin winnng three titles in a row in leinster wouldnt be a big event. Kilkenny or kerry winning mutliple provincial titles is not a big thing or an issue eitheir.
But in leinster teams winning back to back leinster titles is very rare. While the leinster has been competitive in the past where you have had at least two to hree top div 1 team s in the provience every decade. For a team to break out from under Dublins shadow it happens very rarely.Teams putting leinsters back to back, two or three in row leinster titles back to back, how often does it happen. Once a blue moon.
In 130 years outside Dublin only on 13 occassions in leinster footbal hisory have teams put leinster titles back to back . Only 4 times in the last 50 years has a team put leinster titles back to back outside Dublin I think that is very low number and a very revealing statistic. In that it shows how hard for a team outside Dublin to have consistent sucess in the leinster championship . Its 27 years since a team in leinster has won 2 in a row leinster titles other then Dublin . While Dublin have put mutiple leinster titles back to back on 12 occassions and that includes winnnig 5 leinster titles in a row on 3 occassions and winning 6 leinster titles in a row on 1 occasion and winning 7 leinster titles in a row on 1 occasion ( This is the current run Dublin r on in leinster).
Below are all the leinster titles counties have won back to back in Leinster football History ( Excluding Dublin)
1 Meath 1990 1991
2 Meath 1986 1987 1988
3 Offaly 1980 1981 1982
4 Offaly 1971 1972 1973
5 Meath 1966 1967
6 Offaly 1960 1961
7 8 Meath 1951 1952
8 Meath 1939 1940
9 Laois 1936 1937 1938
10 kildare 1930 1931
11 Kildare 1926 1927 1928 1929
12 Wexford 1913 1914 1915 1916 1917 1918
13 louth 1909 1910" Again, my compliments!!!
Longfordbaz (Longford) - Posts: 145 - 12/05/2018 22:20:01
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Hope Tomas O'Se enjoyed sitting through that game in the West today. Not exactly riveting stuff.
kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 854 - 13/05/2018 17:46:14
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Wow, great win for Wicklow today over Offaly, hopefully the GAA let us play down in Aughrim, doubt it though.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 13/05/2018 18:47:01
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Replying To TheUsername: "Wow, great win for Wicklow today over Offaly, hopefully the GAA let us play down in Aughrim, doubt it though." Great result for wicklow, and they do deserve home tie against dubs. To be fair to dub fans, the love going away. Brought great colour and atmosphere to longford in 06, and great vibe around the town. Wicklow v Dublin in aughrim, would be fantastic reward for their result v offaly.
Longfordbaz (Longford) - Posts: 145 - 15/05/2018 20:53:31
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