|
Announced yesterday - from 2020 onwards, Ulster will draw from only 5 of 9 counties to contest the Prelim Rd (exempting the 4 drawn in each of the 2 prior years).
As a stand alone move, this should be wecolmed despite Mattie McGleesan's odd criticism.
This change should be built upon to bring greater equity within the existing structure. We could award success instead - the 2 Uls Finalists get a lighter load by being exempt from the following year's Uls QFs. These 2 to the SFs instead (like Muns), along with a 3rd to QFs (higher NFL rank from the 2 prior year SF losers) with the remaining 6 playing for 3 QF places.
By rolling this out nationally, we could have all Prov Final 8 starting out in the following year's Prov SF 16 - playing a symmetrical 3 KO rds to 2 AI KO QF berths - Prov SF, Final and Champs Playoff rds.
In parallel, we could have an 18-team Sam Mag Cup group stage - 6 'inter-prov' groups of 3 (same prov teams kept apart and including the NFL top 14, 2 Div 3 promoted sides and 2 prior year POSe Cup Finalists).
6 group winners (1st group match winner also plays in 3rd group match to avoid dead rubbers) join 2 unbeaten Prov Champs in the AI KO QFs (double up teams straight to AI SFs).
14-team POSe Cup group stage - 4 'mostly intra-prov' groups of 3 and 1 two-legged 'intra-prov Div 4' pairing. 3 best 2nd placed from 4x3 join 5 group winners in POSe KO QFs.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2578 - 17/04/2018 12:36:13
2093510
Link
0
|
|
Replying To omahant: "Announced yesterday - from 2020 onwards, Ulster will draw from only 5 of 9 counties to contest the Prelim Rd (exempting the 4 drawn in each of the 2 prior years).
As a stand alone move, this should be wecolmed despite Mattie McGleesan's odd criticism.
This change should be built upon to bring greater equity within the existing structure. We could award success instead - the 2 Uls Finalists get a lighter load by being exempt from the following year's Uls QFs. These 2 to the SFs instead (like Muns), along with a 3rd to QFs (higher NFL rank from the 2 prior year SF losers) with the remaining 6 playing for 3 QF places.
By rolling this out nationally, we could have all Prov Final 8 starting out in the following year's Prov SF 16 - playing a symmetrical 3 KO rds to 2 AI KO QF berths - Prov SF, Final and Champs Playoff rds.
In parallel, we could have an 18-team Sam Mag Cup group stage - 6 'inter-prov' groups of 3 (same prov teams kept apart and including the NFL top 14, 2 Div 3 promoted sides and 2 prior year POSe Cup Finalists).
6 group winners (1st group match winner also plays in 3rd group match to avoid dead rubbers) join 2 unbeaten Prov Champs in the AI KO QFs (double up teams straight to AI SFs).
14-team POSe Cup group stage - 4 'mostly intra-prov' groups of 3 and 1 two-legged 'intra-prov Div 4' pairing. 3 best 2nd placed from 4x3 join 5 group winners in POSe KO QFs." Genuine question but what do you do for a living? You have quite the mind.
gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 17/04/2018 13:00:15
2093517
Link
0
|
|
Replying To gotmilk: "Genuine question but what do you do for a living? You have quite the mind." Risk Analyst / Banker / worked for some majors.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2578 - 17/04/2018 14:12:08
2093558
Link
0
|
|
I for one don't like the idea of any sort of Provincial seeding whereby a finalist gets to the semi the next year. With open draws in Ulster you will get years where there is an easier path (if you like) to the Final, so to then give said team a bye to the semi the next year is like a double reward if you ask me. I like the fact Ulster remains open and would like to see the others follow suit instead of what we currently see in other Provinces.
In fact, I would like to see the Provincials ran as a separate competition and then an open draw for the AI series where anyone can draw anyone. A proper open All Ireland if you like and a competition which could be over after 5 rounds of games, shortening the Intercounty season and allowing for the bread and butter that is the club and club players to play games during the seasons of the year where you can actually play a game on a pitch and not like it has been the last number of years.
Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 17/04/2018 15:22:55
2093583
Link
1
|
|
Replying To Offside_Rule: "I for one don't like the idea of any sort of Provincial seeding whereby a finalist gets to the semi the next year. With open draws in Ulster you will get years where there is an easier path (if you like) to the Final, so to then give said team a bye to the semi the next year is like a double reward if you ask me. I like the fact Ulster remains open and would like to see the others follow suit instead of what we currently see in other Provinces.
In fact, I would like to see the Provincials ran as a separate competition and then an open draw for the AI series where anyone can draw anyone. A proper open All Ireland if you like and a competition which could be over after 5 rounds of games, shortening the Intercounty season and allowing for the bread and butter that is the club and club players to play games during the seasons of the year where you can actually play a game on a pitch and not like it has been the last number of years." I hear you - I just wanted to align the strongest in each Prov in a similar symmetric fashion for equity - it's hard to square the circle under existing constraints. The Provs, particularly Uls, would lose their edge I feel if run separately. A short mixed Prov group stage provides an Open Draw element.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2578 - 17/04/2018 19:19:51
2093647
Link
0
|
|
To Offside Rule -
My main '2+6' idea gives more weight to a non-Prov stream. Currently, teams beaten in the Prov SFs and Finals as well as Prov Champs enter the AI Race (Qualifiers) in rds 2, 4 and '5' - I have a more balanced 1, 2 and '3/4'. Modest reward only for Prov progress - granted - but better than Prov stand alone, I feel.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2578 - 17/04/2018 19:32:05
2093649
Link
0
|
|
Replying To omahant: "Risk Analyst / Banker / worked for some majors." Actually makes sense.
Personally myself I wouldn't make changes to the Ulster championship. I don't like the idea of a seeded championship, hasn't worked well in Munster.
gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 24/04/2018 09:49:57
2094683
Link
0
|
|
Replying To gotmilk: "Actually makes sense.
Personally myself I wouldn't make changes to the Ulster championship. I don't like the idea of a seeded championship, hasn't worked well in Munster." What do you think of my '2 + 6' idea for bringing fairness to the AIC despite retention of the lopsided Provs ?
Again - my idea is simple - extend both the Front Door stream by ONE MATCH per team (Champs Playoff Rd), as well as the 1st Rd Qualifiers by ONE MATCH per team.
So. each current 1st Qual Rd PAIRING draws a Prov SF loser as well to form 8 groups of 3.
The top 2 in each group join 4 Prov Final losers in 20-team KO Rd 2.
10 Rd 2 winners join 2 Champs Payoff losers in 12-team KO Rd 3.
6 Rd 3 winners join the only 2 unbeaten Prov Champs in the AI QFs (revert to KO).
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2578 - 24/04/2018 12:52:07
2094733
Link
0
|
|
No changes to the Ulster Championship as it is a great stand alone competition. I have seen Tyrone win may Ulster Championship's but there is just as many memorable games played outside the final that go down in folklore. Derry in Clones in 1995, two great battles with Armagh in 2002 and the return of Frank McGuigan against Down in 1982. As a neutral who can forget Down v Derry 1994, Armagh's comeback v Fermanagh in 1993 and the battles between Monaghan & Armagh throughout the 1980,s. Tyrone v Monaghan in front of an all-ticket crowd in Healy Park is certainly one to look forward to.
Byanthon (Tyrone) - Posts: 1780 - 24/04/2018 14:20:55
2094749
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Byanthon: "No changes to the Ulster Championship as it is a great stand alone competition. I have seen Tyrone win may Ulster Championship's but there is just as many memorable games played outside the final that go down in folklore. Derry in Clones in 1995, two great battles with Armagh in 2002 and the return of Frank McGuigan against Down in 1982. As a neutral who can forget Down v Derry 1994, Armagh's comeback v Fermanagh in 1993 and the battles between Monaghan & Armagh throughout the 1980,s. Tyrone v Monaghan in front of an all-ticket crowd in Healy Park is certainly one to look forward to." Think McGuigan in 1984 against Armagh I think was the best exhibition of point scoring I've ever witnessed.
Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 975 - 24/04/2018 15:13:32
2094760
Link
0
|