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Ciaran Whelan's desire for a better AI SFC structure is no different than that of the rest of us. However, all 'would-be' reformers can be divided into two camps - Abolitionists (get rid of the initial Prov Championship set up) and Retainers (wanting to keep them).
Ciaran's solution is simple - top half of NFL forms a Super 16 with the lower half playing for a quasi Tier 2 Cup. We could blend this with original GPA idea - 4x4 groups in each tier leading to a Last 12 KO in each.
I am a Retainer - and don't wish to weaken the Provs further as stand alone.
To bring the equity and fairness everyone wants - my losition is well known - bring on the
'2 + 6' - which simply extends both the Front Door and 1st Rd Qualifiers by one match per team. That is, each current 1st Qual Rd pairing draws a Prov SF loser in 8x3 groups in AIC Rd 1. Then, 4 Prov Final losers join top 2 of each group in 20-team KO Rd 2. Then, 2 Prov Champs Playoff Rd losers join 10 Rd 2 winners in Rd 3.
Finally, 2 unbeaten Prov Champs join 6 Rd 3 winners in the old AIC QFs.
The wider 1st and 2nd AIC Rds leading to 6 Back Door AI QF berths adequately neutralises the Prov lopsided status.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 06/04/2018 04:20:51
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Replying To omahant: "Ciaran Whelan's desire for a better AI SFC structure is no different than that of the rest of us. However, all 'would-be' reformers can be divided into two camps - Abolitionists (get rid of the initial Prov Championship set up) and Retainers (wanting to keep them).
Ciaran's solution is simple - top half of NFL forms a Super 16 with the lower half playing for a quasi Tier 2 Cup. We could blend this with original GPA idea - 4x4 groups in each tier leading to a Last 12 KO in each.
I am a Retainer - and don't wish to weaken the Provs further as stand alone.
To bring the equity and fairness everyone wants - my losition is well known - bring on the
'2 + 6' - which simply extends both the Front Door and 1st Rd Qualifiers by one match per team. That is, each current 1st Qual Rd pairing draws a Prov SF loser in 8x3 groups in AIC Rd 1. Then, 4 Prov Final losers join top 2 of each group in 20-team KO Rd 2. Then, 2 Prov Champs Playoff Rd losers join 10 Rd 2 winners in Rd 3.
Finally, 2 unbeaten Prov Champs join 6 Rd 3 winners in the old AIC QFs.
The wider 1st and 2nd AIC Rds leading to 6 Back Door AI QF berths adequately neutralises the Prov lopsided status." This hurts my head!
LongfordSham (Longford) - Posts: 106 - 06/04/2018 15:24:43
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omahant could you post all your proposals for competition structure in the same thread from now on? Would allow better discussion as easier to compare them all in the one thread???
ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 06/04/2018 21:32:12
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I really think there's a lot to be said for a very simple 2 divisions of 16. Single round robin structure.
Top 6 teams into playoffs in each division
3 up 3 down for promotion (finalists plus best ranked losing semi finalist promoted)
Play club games in between intercounty league.
Hurling 3 divisions of 12, 12 and 11
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4207 - 06/04/2018 21:37:24
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The calendar for the above
4th March Football 1, Hurling 1
11th March F 2, H 2
18th March F 3, H break
25th March Club hurling
1st April Club football
8th April F 4, H 3
15th April F 5, H 4
22nd April F 6, H break
29th April Club hurling
6th May Club football
13th May F 7, H 5
20th May F 8, H 6
27th May F 9, H break
3rd June Club hurling
10th June Club football
17th June F 10, H 7
24th June F 11, H 8
1st July F 12, H break
8th July Club hurling
15th July Club football
22nd July F13, H 9
29th July Intercounty catch up weekend for football, H 10
5th August F14, H break
12th August Club hurling
19th August Club football
26th August F 15, H 11
2nd September F quarterfinals, H semifinals
9th September F semifinals, H break
16th September Hurling final
23rd September Football final
Club
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4207 - 06/04/2018 21:55:28
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Replying To Whammo86: "The calendar for the above
4th March Football 1, Hurling 1
11th March F 2, H 2
18th March F 3, H break
25th March Club hurling
1st April Club football
8th April F 4, H 3
15th April F 5, H 4
22nd April F 6, H break
29th April Club hurling
6th May Club football
13th May F 7, H 5
20th May F 8, H 6
27th May F 9, H break
3rd June Club hurling
10th June Club football
17th June F 10, H 7
24th June F 11, H 8
1st July F 12, H break
8th July Club hurling
15th July Club football
22nd July F13, H 9
29th July Intercounty catch up weekend for football, H 10
5th August F14, H break
12th August Club hurling
19th August Club football
26th August F 15, H 11
2nd September F quarterfinals, H semifinals
9th September F semifinals, H break
16th September Hurling final
23rd September Football final
Club" Whammo86, you're on the button here. I've posted as much before aswell...
Step1- look at the calendar
Step2- where can we fit in fixtures for said examined calendar
Step3- organise championships accordingly
For example, the months of February to July (inclusive) roughly equate to 26 weeks, therefore 26 weekends, OR... 26 match days.
Now, how do you want to divy up the fixtures?
For example...
8 matchdays exclusively club...
10 matchdays double header football+Hurling intercounty
4 matchdays, intercounty Hurling only
4 matchdays, intercounty football only
...so now you've a template, February to July, intercounty football and hurling teams will have 14 potential matchdays, containing the guts of the intercounty season, leaving August-onwards for final round fixtures (AI quarter finals, semis, etc.).
Now you can construct a viable championship around the available potential fixtures!
extranjero (Wexford) - Posts: 375 - 06/04/2018 23:06:56
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Replying To Whammo86: "I really think there's a lot to be said for a very simple 2 divisions of 16. Single round robin structure.
Top 6 teams into playoffs in each division
3 up 3 down for promotion (finalists plus best ranked losing semi finalist promoted)
Play club games in between intercounty league.
Hurling 3 divisions of 12, 12 and 11" For football promoion there, both 2 x 3 would go up if 1 beats 4 as expected, but the 2 v 3 loser would not if 4 upsets 1 - although I like 1 goes up automatically before the KO games. Maybe I would make it a 7-team KO, with 3 QF winners promoted with league winner in the SFs.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 07/04/2018 20:22:20
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Replying To Whammo86: "I really think there's a lot to be said for a very simple 2 divisions of 16. Single round robin structure.
Top 6 teams into playoffs in each division
3 up 3 down for promotion (finalists plus best ranked losing semi finalist promoted)
Play club games in between intercounty league.
Hurling 3 divisions of 12, 12 and 11" Btw, Shara got a toe in the water - CONCACAF Nations League Qualifiers will use his system.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 07/04/2018 20:32:27
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omahant can we keep this thread for all your competition structure ideas rather than a new thread each time?
ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 08/04/2018 00:31:23
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Absolutely, not. It's better for one to be a prolific thinker than a confidence lacking degenerate.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 09/04/2018 04:18:19
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Replying To Whammo86: "I really think there's a lot to be said for a very simple 2 divisions of 16. Single round robin structure.
Top 6 teams into playoffs in each division
3 up 3 down for promotion (finalists plus best ranked losing semi finalist promoted)
Play club games in between intercounty league.
Hurling 3 divisions of 12, 12 and 11" Maybe I prefer your 12-12-10 for football as well to keep the game count down. Top 6 KO in each -
1v6, 2v5, 3v4 - three winners go up and the best winner v winner of other two in Div/AIC final.
Also, 10,11,12 - three go down- or maybe with playoffs v 9, 8, 7, respectively - would jazz up mid table placings.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 09/04/2018 05:11:58
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Absolutely, not. It's better for one to be a prolific thinker than a confidence lacking degenerate.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 1095 - 09/04/2018 04:1drop the abuse.
Its better for comparison if you throw all your ridiculous a+b+c = x - y with provincial champions in their own 1+2 = 5 formats in a new thread every second day.
Why not post all your ideas in the one thread. At least its easy to compare them then rather than them being in a new thread each time
ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 09/04/2018 14:43:20
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Jaysus
That was a bit harsh!!
jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 09/04/2018 18:12:05
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