National Forum

'The People's Game'

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Replying To ormondbannerman:  "I have a rugby IRFU registration number card, complete with photo and relevant personal details...but i haven't played in years !

That would be correct i only know 7 rugby pitches in Meath.....the rest would school pitches Gaa/soccer /rugby etc...But a school pitch is not opened to the public and anybody with IRFU registration number card cant play on it !

Playing numbers and IRFU registration numbers are 100% correct ?
WhyTheLongFace (Meath) - Posts: 683 - 08/03/2018 17:26:13
You very well may have an IRFU reg card but that doesnt mean you are still included in the figures if not involved.

No, you said how much would hurling really develop? And I've given you the examples. Rugby has had decades of a head start and made no inroads in terms of numbers. Project donegal was a paper exercise buy ulster rugby. You need to differentiate between potential and reality.
I'll give you an example, I've the potential to be €50 million richer tomorrow night with the euro millions. The reality is that I've a 75 million to one chance.
Still better odds than rugby being the top participantion sport in Ireland in my lifetime.
Bain (Donegal) - Posts: 464 - 08/03/2018 17:29:42
How exactly does rugby have decades of head start. Project donegal wasnt paper exercise. Now ulster rugby is poorly ran but that wasnt a paper exercise.
Im not saying rugby ever will be top participation sport in ireland in 10 years or 50 years but that it will grab a much greater percentage of those playing sport over time which it has done in recent years"
There was 2-3 hurling clubs in the county in the 80's and down to 1 in the mid 90s. Thats 20+years, decades in other words.
Rugby had a chance but it looks like there wasn't enough support from the province to help them grow the game.
Hurling was all but extinct but is back on its feet due to highly committed club members putting all their energy into the game they were passionate about. It must be added that there was a poisonous atmosphere between clubs up until recently but it's receding and everyone is benefiting as a result. Games are no longer decided by hatchet men but quality scores, fitness and general play.
Ulster rugby as an administrator on the other hand are only worried about one thing, the professional team. And this is shown as there is no expansion of playing numbers in the 20+ years of "professionalism" in rugby. So tell me what has project Donegal achieved? Practically no one knows there is even such a thing. Probably think it's something to do with Jim Mc Guinness!!!!
You say Ulster rugby is "poorly ran"??? Why are heads not rolling then as it's detrimental to future revenues and growth of the game. Why isn't Philip Browne asking questions??? Sounds like jobs for the boys to me.

Bain (Donegal) - Posts: 467 - 08/03/2018 23:31:36    2082838

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Replying To PoolSturgeon:  "Far fetched? It's a self evident fact! We have had over 130 years of the GAA and half the country is hurling wasteland. Ye haven't actually embraced the sport in Monaghan anyway! Barring a rich sugar daddy (and theyd want to be of the billionaire class) coming in to bankroll the promotion of hurling and building a bit of hype round it, rugby has far more potential to grow in Ireland than hurling. The young are already hooked in terms of interest...the professional organisational abilities of the IRFU could without too much effort change that passive interest into an active one over the medium to long term."
Six senior hurling clubs in Monaghan. How many rugby clubs are there?

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 3760 - 09/03/2018 01:19:03    2082846

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Replying To ormondbannerman:  "I do love these threads, So many bitter anti rugby posts full of either laugh out loud nonsense or bitter illinformed nonsense"
Ach Ormo, don't fall into that social media trap of focusing on the extremists. There are plenty of reasonable posts on here. Not everyone is the enemy.

Cupotay (Donegal) - Posts: 31 - 09/03/2018 10:36:17    2082891

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Replying To keeper7:  "Six senior hurling clubs in Monaghan. How many rugby clubs are there?"
Just the one Rugby club in Monaghan town.

bananaskin (Monaghan) - Posts: 47 - 09/03/2018 11:28:48    2082909

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Replying To ormondbannerman:  "I do love these threads, So many bitter anti rugby posts full of either laugh out loud nonsense or bitter illinformed nonsense"
You don't have to respond to every post. Take a lie down.

bananaskin (Monaghan) - Posts: 47 - 09/03/2018 11:31:24    2082910

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Replying To bananaskin:  "You don't have to respond to every post. Take a lie down."
Also Ormond you don't need to re post every thread you reply too...it's annoying to read. Just hit reply.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 9091 - 09/03/2018 11:37:15    2082911

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Well it's not the people's game, it's on the people's awareness at this moment in time. I've been keeping up with the scores of the 6 nations but I haven't watched any of the matches in full, same with Connacht I've been keeping up with the scores but only caught the end of the last match. World Cup in the Southern Hemisphere you won't catch me getting out of bed unless Ireland are in a semi final or final I'll watch World Cup matches if it's in Europe hell I was in Wembley and the Olympic stadium in 2015 but seeing as I live 3 stops from Wembley on the tube and on the same line as Stratford that was handy. I'm happy when Ireland win and win championships but I'm not too put out when they lose. It's only rugby! The Irish national soccer team and Everton would get closer to the passion I'd have my gaa club and county. I'm browned off when Ireland and Everton lose but it's heartbreak when my county loses. I have had more interest in mayo than the rugby so far this year I'll probably watch the Ireland match on paddy's day wether or not Ireland are going for the grand slam and if they beat England I'll be happy but I'm more worried about what mayo are up to. After that day rugby will be down the pecking order again unless one of the provences are going for a European cup competition.

Spoddgy (Mayo) - Posts: 610 - 09/03/2018 15:53:56    2082979

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Replying To Spoddgy:  "Well it's not the people's game, it's on the people's awareness at this moment in time. I've been keeping up with the scores of the 6 nations but I haven't watched any of the matches in full, same with Connacht I've been keeping up with the scores but only caught the end of the last match. World Cup in the Southern Hemisphere you won't catch me getting out of bed unless Ireland are in a semi final or final I'll watch World Cup matches if it's in Europe hell I was in Wembley and the Olympic stadium in 2015 but seeing as I live 3 stops from Wembley on the tube and on the same line as Stratford that was handy. I'm happy when Ireland win and win championships but I'm not too put out when they lose. It's only rugby! The Irish national soccer team and Everton would get closer to the passion I'd have my gaa club and county. I'm browned off when Ireland and Everton lose but it's heartbreak when my county loses. I have had more interest in mayo than the rugby so far this year I'll probably watch the Ireland match on paddy's day wether or not Ireland are going for the grand slam and if they beat England I'll be happy but I'm more worried about what mayo are up to. After that day rugby will be down the pecking order again unless one of the provences are going for a European cup competition."
I would think this would the sentiments of most people in the country. Great if they do well, not too bothered if they lose.

Bain (Donegal) - Posts: 467 - 09/03/2018 16:06:25    2082981

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Replying To Cupotay:  "Ach Ormo, don't fall into that social media trap of focusing on the extremists. There are plenty of reasonable posts on here. Not everyone is the enemy."
I don't think there is any enemies of Rugby if i am honest ...i think it mostly good healthy debate were as ormondbannerman thinks their is hands on the ball before the ruck is formed ! If he gave everybody a chance and not get easily triggered calling people silly/stupid or childish it wouldn't have turn into Audiences with ormondbannerman !


Once he said "You very well may have an IRFU reg card but that doesnt mean you are still included in the figures if not involved " I stop replying ... i am still registered under the Union..
Like i just don't understand why anybody would tell another person they are not registered when its not hard to find out online that i am ! If i said st Patricks day is on 17 of March he would tell me its wrong its on the 18 of March...You just have to shut up shop and smile. But no harm to him

WhyTheLongFace (Meath) - Posts: 756 - 09/03/2018 18:26:36    2083001

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Replying To bananaskin:  "Just the one Rugby club in Monaghan town."
So a 'hurling wasteland' like Monaghan can have 6 hurling clubs while the legend of Tommy Bowe is equal to only one rugby club?

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 3760 - 09/03/2018 18:26:54    2083002

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What's the people's game simple , imagine a sport that somehow you managed to lose a game/tournament in , imagine if we ever lost a game in GAA , and I'm not talking comprise rules , there be three days of National mourning, of course that will never happen thank god

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 4822 - 09/03/2018 18:59:28    2083011

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Replying To keeper7:  "So a 'hurling wasteland' like Monaghan can have 6 hurling clubs while the legend of Tommy Bowe is equal to only one rugby club?"
Mad, isn't it?

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 4540 - 09/03/2018 19:12:42    2083016

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I'd love to see a poll on whether people would prefer to see Ireland rugby team win a rugby world cup or the Irish soccer team win a world cup . Obviously I'd love to see both but I think the country would go into meltdown if the soccer team won as unlikely as it would ever be.
In rugby we're big fish in a small pond whereas soccer we're small wish in an ocean.
Personally I'd follow both but as somebody else pointed out its seasonal .

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 458 - 10/03/2018 18:13:25    2083217

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Replying To Bon:  "I'd love to see a poll on whether people would prefer to see Ireland rugby team win a rugby world cup or the Irish soccer team win a world cup . Obviously I'd love to see both but I think the country would go into meltdown if the soccer team won as unlikely as it would ever be.
In rugby we're big fish in a small pond whereas soccer we're small wish in an ocean.
Personally I'd follow both but as somebody else pointed out its seasonal ."
Dunno about soccer v Rugby World Cup, but I played club rugby and hurling for a fair few years, love both sports, and if I had a choice between seeing Limerick finally winning a senior hurling all ireland or the rugby team win a world Cup
It would be hurling hands down.. Nothing beats seeing your county achieve the ultimate goal.. (not that I'd know unfortunately (yet anyway)
Luimneach abú!!

skillet (Limerick) - Posts: 367 - 10/03/2018 20:24:28    2083237

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Replying To skillet:  "Dunno about soccer v Rugby World Cup, but I played club rugby and hurling for a fair few years, love both sports, and if I had a choice between seeing Limerick finally winning a senior hurling all ireland or the rugby team win a world Cup
It would be hurling hands down.. Nothing beats seeing your county achieve the ultimate goal.. (not that I'd know unfortunately (yet anyway)
Luimneach abú!!"
I'd agree with you 100% , limerick is my adopted county for hurling since I was a kid, id love to see them win an all ireland, the scenes on the pitch when they last won munster was unforgettable. Hopefully its not too far away .

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 458 - 10/03/2018 20:44:16    2083241

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I would get more pleasure in my club winning a junior championship in KK than I would Ireland winning a rugby world cup,not that I wouldnt be happy to see Ireland win the world cup.

mooncat (Kilkenny) - Posts: 416 - 10/03/2018 22:23:04    2083265

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Rugby has a huge advantage in that it's international (with all the glamour that entails), but not very. It's essentially a post-empire game, played seriously only by former colonies (France being the exception). It also has advantages that there is a place in a rugby team for everyone e.g. the short fat guy who would be the last pick for a gaelic football or soccer team can be a v effective prop, the big lad with no skill can be second row, the little fast guy the scrum-half etc etc. But Nevr the "people's game.'

befair (Down) - Posts: 148 - 10/03/2018 23:21:10    2083271

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Joanne Cantwell's opening line on League Sunday

"The snow is gone but the people's game is back" haha already doing wonders before Lyster walks away

Hill16Army (Dublin) - Posts: 80 - 11/03/2018 21:34:19    2083654

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You don't have to respond to every post. Take a lie down.
bananaskin (Monaghan) - Posts: 44 - 09/03/2018 11:31:24
Its a discussion forum. Why should discussion not happen?

Also Ormond you don't need to re post every thread you reply too...it's annoying to read. Just hit reply.
yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 8863 - 09/03/2018 11:37:15
You cant reply to multiple posts that way. Very clear and obvious which is my post and which is yours with each post in a different colour.

I don't think there is any enemies of Rugby if i am honest ...i think it mostly good healthy debate were as ormondbannerman thinks their is hands on the ball before the ruck is formed ! If he gave everybody a chance and not get easily triggered calling people silly/stupid or childish it wouldn't have turn into Audiences with ormondbannerman !
Once he said "You very well may have an IRFU reg card but that doesnt mean you are still included in the figures if not involved " I stop replying ... i am still registered under the Union..
Like i just don't understand why anybody would tell another person they are not registered when its not hard to find out online that i am ! If i said st Patricks day is on 17 of March he would tell me its wrong its on the 18 of March...You just have to shut up shop and smile. But no harm to him
WhyTheLongFace (Meath) - Posts: 689 - 09/03/2018 18:26:36
Why are you getting personal? How do you know you are still registered with the union if not involved anymore?

What's the people's game simple , imagine a sport that somehow you managed to lose a game/tournament in , imagine if we ever lost a game in GAA , and I'm not talking comprise rules , there be three days of National mourning, of course that will never happen thank god
Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 4788 - 09/03/2018 18:59:28
why would there be national mourning for a county losing? You havent a clue what you're on about!

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 11/03/2018 22:24:28    2083700

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I would say the physicality and the high scoring game would suit the Irish mentality. And we have produced a high number of great players for our size as a country.

Always followed rubgy back in the bad old days. I think any sort of talk about the game being the peoples game is nonsense. 80% of the Irish team are from fee paying school. There are morw GAA clubs in county Cork then there are rubgy clubs in the whole Island of Ireland. There are around 12500 underage soccer clubs, 12000 GAA underage clubs and around 500 underage rugby clubs. Many other stats would show up the idea that rugby is the peoples game. What is certain there has been a spread and growth into more GAA areas and the Irish rugby team are very popular. Probaly the number 1 popular team in the country. 20 years ago the rugby team was well down the list compared to Jacks soccer heroes. The sucess of the team, great players like O Driscoll who became respected and famous throughout the land have all led to the growth in popularity.

There was always a strong crossover of GAA fans supporters following rugby. Many older traditional gaa fans would have hated soccer but followed rugby. The game was played by amateurs had a physicality that soccer didn't. And it was a competition where you could play and beat England every year. Don't underestimate the importance that beating the auld enemy has for many Irish people.

The six nations is also a well respected and popular competition and has a long tradition. And gives us a chance of beating England in competition every year. And this has always had a revelance for Irish people. The same way the scots Welsh French and Germans like to beat English sports teams , the Irish are no different.

A few criticisms of rugby
1 The new modern game has become less skilful. Years ago players had to try and weave past opponents. Now players ram and batter into each other much more, they dont avoid the oppossing player. Years ago great skilful Irish players like Paul Dean Kieth Crossan Simon Geoghan Brendan Mullins Hugo McNeill and the great Mike Gibson always were skilful ducking and diving and weaving past players. Now the game has become much more physical and way to physical at times which will mean allot of the modern rugby players will have bodies like wrecks in older age. The game is not as skilful as it once was. The physicality of the game is now so important.

2 You do get the feeling that the next sport drugs contervesey in the next 15 or 20 years will be surroundinv rugby. It was obvious before Armstrong was found out there was serious questions marks over him. Its pretty obvious that asking players such size to batter each week in week out. That there is an underlying issue underneath regards of the welfare of players. And rumours and stories of drugs in rugby will become a bigger story in years to come.

3 There is a serious lack of criticism of rugby.

Soccer has Dunphy GAA has Brolly, rugby pundits say all the say the same thing. Every Irish player is called world class. The Irish times and Irish Independent label every player who play for leinster and Munster is a legend. And every Irish rugby player is world class. The critical anaylsis of rubgy is very poor. GAA teams get dogs abuse and so do soccer teams and especially the Irish soccer team. When the rubgy team is beaten the reaction is almost dismayed non criticism. Its almost as if ex players are afraid to say anything negative about current Irish teams

I enjoy reading about sports. I used to enjoy reading rugby commentary in this country. Reporters and journalist back them wrote in detail about rugby with great anaylsis. Now I avoid the Irish media when they talk about rugby especially when we lose. There is a serious lack of insight and anaylsis and almost fear to criticise the rugby team. So instead I read English Welsh and Scotish newspapers and rugby journalist to get a better insight. One of things that is very common when they talk about our rugby team that is rarely mentiones in this country. Is the Irish rugby team is seen an underachievers. They r seen as crackinf under pressure. They are seen as the Spurs of Rugby a tendency to choke in big games.

We probably should have won more with the golden generation. We had a better team then Wales but Wales were more sucessful. And all Irish teams in every sport and Irish sportswomen and men dont suit being favourites. Being the underdog does not suit us. The Rugby team is no different. Our record not to win any World cup knockout games, big grand slam matchs v England at the start of the 00s and Wales at the end of the 00s. loses to Wales in 11 WC q final and Argentine in 15 WC w final , loss to Scotland last year abd even this years performance in Paris before Sextons piece genius are some of the big games we underperformed under pressure.

4 We have overachieved with the amount of great players we have producd. For a country our size the number of great players we have produced is outstanding. Just look at Ireland contribution to the lions throughout the years. Much bigger then Scotland and even probaly bigger then Wales and as important as England. Some the Great Irish players we have produced are Jack Kyle Karl Mullen Mike Gibson Tom Kiernan Fergus Slattery Moss Keane Willie Duggan Wille Joe McBride Ollie Campbell Ciaran Fitzgerald Donal Lenihan Paul Dean Brendan Mullin Simon Geoghan Nick Popplewell Brian Discroll Ronan O Gara Paul O Connell Peter Clohessey Johnny Sexton Conor Murray and many more.

But as team or country we have massively underachieved. Our record in rugby where there is really only 8 competitive team in the world at any given time , our record is very poor to the say the least.

1 grand slam in 70 years 2 grand slams in 130 years is very poor. Where there is only 5 teams and now 6, 2 grand slams is a very poor return. England France Wales are well ahead in terms of the trophies even Scotlsnd have a better record with their 3 Grand Slams to our 2 Grand Slams.

2 Up to 2000 we were the whipping boys of rugby. After our greatest team the 49 grand slam winners. We declined badly in the 50s and this continued into 60s. We couldnt win in Twickenham for 11 years in this period. In the 70s we had a good team potentially and maybe we could won the grand slam in early 70s when Scotland and Wales didnt play in Dublin in 72 because of the troubles. But the fact is the 70s was a poor period also with year after defeat to Wales. In the 80s our form was schrphrenic. Triple Crown one year 82 and 85, followed by the wooden spoon the year after. The 90s was shambolic. Hammering after hammering in Paris. We couldnt beat Scotland for 12 years from 88 to 2000. Beating Wales in Cardiff and the odd memorable win v England were the only things that were good in that era. Since 2000 we have been more competitive and have won trophies but still our record can be patchy.

3 It took 130 year to beat the All Blacks I know they hard to beat. But that is an apalling record. Wales were beating the All Blacks 80 or 90s years before us. And it took us to beat them in USA to beat them first.


4 Our record in Worlds cup is embarrassing. Never to win a quater final to win a knock match at 8 attempts in 25 years , never to get past the last 8 of a competitiin where there is only 8 competitive teams in the world is shocking. Irish teams crashing at World Cup is crazy. In 91 v Australia we blew after Hamilton amazing try. In 2007 with the golden generation embarrassing performances to Georgia. 2011, 2015 defeats to Wales and Argentine again showed the rugby team choking under the pressure.

Im sure many wouldnt want to hear some of the above but there is a truth to saying our record as a rugby country is one of underachievement . While great Coaches like Warren Gatland Eddie Sullivan Declan Kidney Joe Schmidt and great players like O Driscoll O Connell O Gara and Sexton have brought rugby to a new level of sucess we still should have done better for example in the World Cups. And if we dont win the Grand Slam this year it would be another missed chance. As England are not playing well. And we have a much better team then Scotland.

Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 456 - 12/03/2018 23:05:01    2084131

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