National Forum

"There's A Simple Fix To Gaelic Football's Melee Problem"

(Oldest Posts First)

I'm surprised no-one commented on this, despite a very recent thread on melees/brawls. Last week, ex-Tyrone player Philip Jordan wrote a piece on RTÉ's website where he suggested that the problem is not just the original outbreak of fisticuffs between two opponents, it's when the teammates join in, and that the third person (i.e. the first person after the original fight between the two opponents) should get dealt with severely, as with Aussie Rules. Opinions?

Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 461 - 22/02/2018 17:33:31    2079271

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Sounds fair to me, first (3rd) person in should be black carded, yellow for the protagonists or red if that bad.

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6770 - 22/02/2018 18:16:59    2079286

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Makes sense in theory, but does it practically. What if say the fourth, fifth etc square punch others.

Does it not encourage more to join a melee if your not the first and third person involved.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 1419 - 22/02/2018 18:26:54    2079289

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Send them all off!

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 11780 - 22/02/2018 18:34:46    2079293

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Makes sense in theory, but does it practically. What if say the fourth, fifth etc square punch others.

Does it not encourage more to join a melee if your not the first and third person involved."
I'd imagine that the rule would refer to anyone joining a row, not just the first one to get there. If that was the case it would put a stop to a lot of the nonsense that goes on with lads pushing and shoving which generally speaking just prolongs the incidents.

AHP (Dublin) - Posts: 289 - 22/02/2018 20:12:13    2079324

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I thought this rule was already in place, 3rd man in, straight red even though it's never implemented, best way is to deal with it is to fine all players involved, fine co board is nonsense they only demand that clubs pay it, if it had to be paid by the players out of their own pockets they might avoid throwing shapes

riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1243 - 22/02/2018 20:33:08    2079334

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They did something similar in ice hockey, where bench-clearings were a pretty common occurrence in the 70s and 80s. Third man in gets a heavy suspension and fine, fourth man in gets a slightly less heavy punishment, etc. It cured the problem overnight. Admittedly, we in the GAA don't really have the option of fining players, but suspensions could be a realistic option.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 1484 - 22/02/2018 21:15:43    2079345

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I quite like them

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 18194 - 22/02/2018 21:22:23    2079346

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Anyway you'd need a TMO to enforce this fairly

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6770 - 22/02/2018 21:24:45    2079347

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Wait a second. Is this thread suggesting that there's too many melees ?

I assumed it was giving out that there wasn't enough.

There was a time in our tradition when substitute benches would clear, teams would fight in tunnels both sides of half time and mentors and spectators could casually invade the pitch with no consequences.

I don't like this modern thinking one bit.

carlovia (None) - Posts: 798 - 22/02/2018 21:51:45    2079350

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Replying To riverboys:  "I thought this rule was already in place, 3rd man in, straight red even though it's never implemented, best way is to deal with it is to fine all players involved, fine co board is nonsense they only demand that clubs pay it, if it had to be paid by the players out of their own pockets they might avoid throwing shapes"
Your correct, the rule is already in place if two lads our at at it say rolling around the ground then if anyone else piles in which in turn adds other players to go involved the 3rd man in should receive a red card but as you say nobody ever gets one.
The thing with this the 2 lads on the ground our not punching each other its all holding each other to see who's the strongest all players should just play on around them then ref can come bk and deal with it, or every one gets a yellow yes even if it means 12 players.

Yourjoking (USA) - Posts: 426 - 22/02/2018 22:31:07    2079363

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Replying To Tacaí Liatroma:  "I'm surprised no-one commented on this, despite a very recent thread on melees/brawls. Last week, ex-Tyrone player Philip Jordan wrote a piece on RTÉ's website where he suggested that the problem is not just the original outbreak of fisticuffs between two opponents, it's when the teammates join in, and that the third person (i.e. the first person after the original fight between the two opponents) should get dealt with severely, as with Aussie Rules. Opinions?"
What if the third person in is someone who is trying to stop it but gets a dig?

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4772 - 23/02/2018 10:03:58    2079401

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Retrospective bans from analysing the video footage would work, this would also work for diving etc, suppose the problem is there aren't cameras at every game or not so many cameras covering every angle, it must be tough trying to referee these games, no matter what the ref does he rarely gets any credit for trying is best.
Melees only fuel the anti GAA crowd who say that our games are played by thugs, which is not true, it's a tough full contact sport, I hope I never see the day where Gaelic players are rolling around on the ground like they have just been shot like some soccer players do, then you can see clearly on the tv footage that they weren't even touched. I can hardly watch soccer anymore it's got so bad.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 304 - 23/02/2018 11:00:34    2079411

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Replying To Tacaí Liatroma:  "I'm surprised no-one commented on this, despite a very recent thread on melees/brawls. Last week, ex-Tyrone player Philip Jordan wrote a piece on RTÉ's website where he suggested that the problem is not just the original outbreak of fisticuffs between two opponents, it's when the teammates join in, and that the third person (i.e. the first person after the original fight between the two opponents) should get dealt with severely, as with Aussie Rules. Opinions?"
I thought this '3rd man in gets a red card' was implemented & successfully so when Sean McCague was President and Paraic Duffy head of the central disciplinary committee

Shelbourne (Monaghan) - Posts: 440 - 23/02/2018 11:58:51    2079435

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I'd take commentators, analysts, presenters and reporters being able to pronounce melee properly first. Oh wait, we wouldn't wait to Americanize our words would we? (even though this is a French carry-over word!)

eoghan6688 (Galway) - Posts: 25 - 23/02/2018 15:51:59    2079508

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Makes sense in theory, but does it practically. What if say the fourth, fifth etc square punch others.

Does it not encourage more to join a melee if your not the first and third person involved."
Fourth, fifth etc also get the same treatment (maybe). And of course, if the third person thinks better of it and shies away, the fourth and fifth become third and fourth. So the question would be if a melee is still gonna break out, who's gonna out their neck on the line and get black or red? By the way, if they throw punches and get caught, then they'd get red automatically.

Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 461 - 23/02/2018 19:20:45    2079554

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Replying To Yourjoking:  "Your correct, the rule is already in place if two lads our at at it say rolling around the ground then if anyone else piles in which in turn adds other players to go involved the 3rd man in should receive a red card but as you say nobody ever gets one.
The thing with this the 2 lads on the ground our not punching each other its all holding each other to see who's the strongest all players should just play on around them then ref can come bk and deal with it, or every one gets a yellow yes even if it means 12 players."
Yep, already in place. Official Guide Part 2, Hurling Rule 5.21 and Football Rule 5.19, Category III Infractions. Red card and free kick.

Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 461 - 23/02/2018 19:30:29    2079560

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Replying To gotmilk:  "
Replying To Tacaí Liatroma:  "I'm surprised no-one commented on this, despite a very recent thread on melees/brawls. Last week, ex-Tyrone player Philip Jordan wrote a piece on RTÉ's website where he suggested that the problem is not just the original outbreak of fisticuffs between two opponents, it's when the teammates join in, and that the third person (i.e. the first person after the original fight between the two opponents) should get dealt with severely, as with Aussie Rules. Opinions?"
What if the third person in is someone who is trying to stop it but gets a dig?"
That's a very good point. The ref would need to be careful there.

That's why I suggest that (even if Philip Jordan's suggestion never saw the light of day) if something breaks out between two players, the ref could just leave them too it, warning other players there and then to keep the hell away of they'll be in trouble. Then, with that crisis averted, the ref can switch to the two fighters and tell them to cop on quickly or get a card. Referee's could even tell the teams (in their dressing rooms, or the captains on the field before the game, or whatever) that that's the approach he'll be taking, and anyone who wants to add to a 2-man scrap had better beware.

Now, if there's 3 or 4 or more players around the ball and something breaks out spontaneously and everyone's already in the middle of it, that's a different thing.

By the way, to out this into practice, take the famous battle between Mayo and Meath in the All-Ireland final back in the 90's. 1996, was it? I remember slowing this right down on one of those DVDs that came in one of the newspapers. I think a Mayo lad took exception to something a Meath lad did and retaliated. Suddenly four Meath players rained down on the Mayo fella, and all hell broke loose. If this idea we're talking about was a thing at the time, the Mayo player and Meath player at the start would be dealt with by the referee, there wouldn't be a brawl, and the game would have carried on with 28, 29 or 30 men on the field.

Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 461 - 23/02/2018 19:38:13    2079562

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