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"There Are Signs Of An Agenda Against Tyrone"

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I think Tyrone need a change of tactics like the way Declan Bonner has Donegal playing now, looking forward to the Ulster championship now that we might at least play some proper attacking football, it's not easy cause Micky has been there so long but the fact is he may have stayed too long, Micko's recent documentary springs to mind where he admits he stayed to long in charge of Kerry, I'd look forward to seeing Tyrone throwing the shackles off.
I think there is an agenda in the media against all Ulster teams, like I read somewhere recently,maybe it was on here, that the Ulster boxers used to say they had to knock the opponent out just to get a draw down south!!

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 304 - 16/02/2018 15:50:40    2077427

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Many missing the point , if you-think they play the same as Dublin then surely they should try something different because they obviously are not good enough to play the same style as Dublin , they are obviously short of something yet the defense that they play the same as the champions somehow makes everything ok ??? Comparing styles is pointless a team in the Phoenix Park may try to play one touch keep ball football it doesn't make them Barcelona, for me Harte is deflecting and passing attention elsewhere, even the most diehard fan on here must admit the body language of a Tyrone player over last few years is hardly one of someone who enjoys what they are doing ,

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 4822 - 16/02/2018 16:21:06    2077438

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Replying To The_Fridge:  "Wally
At best your been inconsistent, evidence shows that you have changed your mind as little as 18 months ago. You seem to have an axe to grind which is unfortunate. Maybe your 3rd cousin might get a game in the future and you will be singing the praises of the management in 18 months time, I don't know.
MH is not infallible to criticism. Not sure how many times I have to say that. The media and fans have criticised MH.
I'm proud of every single Tyrone team, many many Tyrone teams won nothing and they bought a lot of joy to Tyrone supporters. However you don't go to Tyrone games so maybe you don't understand that. I couldn't care less how we win the all Ireland. If you think Tyrone can pick and choose how we win the all Ireland you are deluded, we have won 3 in our history and haven't won for 10 years. A 9-8 win will do me fine."
Some old tired rehashed rhetoric Fridge.

There you go again stating that Mickey isn't infallible to criticism yet every time he is criticised you are straight on to discredit what we are saying and claiming that we must have some sort of axe to grind or some sort of ulterior motive.

Your last point is the most depressing though. Essentially you don't care how we play as long as we win.

This is exactly what is wrong with modern day Gaelic football.

Who cares if the players hate playing it. Who cares about the supporters paying to watch it. Who cares about the generation of young people walking away from our game due to these systems. Who cares about our games being entertaining. As long as we win eh!

You have just summed yourself up there.

Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 415 - 16/02/2018 21:00:44    2077505

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its actually quite unsettling how far people like 'fridge' will go to defend mickey harte. its almost cult-like. thankfully there are still plenty of good footballing folk in tyrone who havent been brainwashed and can think for themselves without the media.

southtyronegael (Tyrone) - Posts: 19 - 16/02/2018 21:56:39    2077516

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Replying To Wally:  "Some old tired rehashed rhetoric Fridge.

There you go again stating that Mickey isn't infallible to criticism yet every time he is criticised you are straight on to discredit what we are saying and claiming that we must have some sort of axe to grind or some sort of ulterior motive.

Your last point is the most depressing though. Essentially you don't care how we play as long as we win.

This is exactly what is wrong with modern day Gaelic football.

Who cares if the players hate playing it. Who cares about the supporters paying to watch it. Who cares about the generation of young people walking away from our game due to these systems. Who cares about our games being entertaining. As long as we win eh!

You have just summed yourself up there."
Oh no no Wally. I think YOU have an agenda. Many people from Tyrone have been consistent on their criticism, you just seem to pick and choose.
Name me the players who don't like playing for Tyrone? Past or present.
You seem to think a team can pick how they want to win an all Ireland, we have won 3 in our history, we can't be picky can we? If we are good enough to get to an all Ireland and win it by playing fantastic high scoring football, great, that's a bonus. If we win it 9-8, I dont really care.
Ive critised MH previously. He got it wrong last year against Dublin. Is that clear enough. He got his tactics wrong. But I feel he deserves another chance to right that wrong.

The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 1197 - 16/02/2018 22:28:08    2077523

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Replying To southtyronegael:  "its actually quite unsettling how far people like 'fridge' will go to defend mickey harte. its almost cult-like. thankfully there are still plenty of good footballing folk in tyrone who havent been brainwashed and can think for themselves without the media."
I find it extremely funny that every time Wally says something you comment straight after saying essentially the same thing. Alot of the same phases and statements you both seem to use. Funny that. Some might think you two are the same person?

The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 1197 - 16/02/2018 22:31:01    2077524

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "I think Tyrone need a change of tactics like the way Declan Bonner has Donegal playing now, looking forward to the Ulster championship now that we might at least play some proper attacking football, it's not easy cause Micky has been there so long but the fact is he may have stayed too long, Micko's recent documentary springs to mind where he admits he stayed to long in charge of Kerry, I'd look forward to seeing Tyrone throwing the shackles off.
I think there is an agenda in the media against all Ulster teams, like I read somewhere recently,maybe it was on here, that the Ulster boxers used to say they had to knock the opponent out just to get a draw down south!!"
Are you joe brolly?

Bernardo (Monaghan) - Posts: 326 - 16/02/2018 22:45:45    2077526

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Good comments. Another point is that the current Tyrone team are too clean. Modest, mannerly lads. I'd say nobody dreads playing them. All the greats have an edge. Current Tyrone team doesn't.

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 435 - 16/02/2018 23:17:44    2077536

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Anyone saying Tyrone play exactly like Kerry, Dublin or Mayo is talking crap.

Occasionally those teams will find themselves with 13 men behind the ball. Tyrone almost never have more than 2 players ahead of the ball. The get caught out in transition at times with more ahead of the ball, but it's the job for all but 1 or 2 players to get back behind the ball.

If Dublin or Mayo have 14 behind the ball it's often because of the way the play has developed and they've had forwards working back tackling a specific situation. Dublin's usual shape has more than 1 player ahead of the ball.

Dublin go out to dominate a team. They win the ball as high as they can. Mayo the same. They press kick outs wanting to put pressure on teams and force mistakes high.

Tyrone don't they defend the scoring zone aggressively, suck teams in and then counter attack at speed.

Tyrone I think are way less likely to lose against teams weaker than them than say Mayo are. Tyrone really will not be Dublin playing this style. Dublin are to good at playing in tight spaces.

It's hard to know how good Tyrone's forwards are. In games against the better teams, they let their forwards get isolated. They end up having to kick from poor situations.

There is clearly not the same work on coordination in attack being done by Tyrone compared to Mayo, who are incredibly good at supporting around the man in possession.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 1996 - 17/02/2018 08:34:23    2077559

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Tyrone will not beat Dublin this year playing to their regular system.

They could still win the All Ireland though. They are capable of beating Mayo and Kerry. Something like 2014 where Dublin lose a semifinal leaves a team like Tyrone in with a shot of winning Sam.

Tyrone are well setup to beat the likes of a Kerry.

Eamonn Fitzmaurice is comfortably the weakest of the managers of the top 4 counties.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 1996 - 17/02/2018 08:46:09    2077561

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Replying To The_Fridge:  "Oh no no Wally. I think YOU have an agenda. Many people from Tyrone have been consistent on their criticism, you just seem to pick and choose.
Name me the players who don't like playing for Tyrone? Past or present.
You seem to think a team can pick how they want to win an all Ireland, we have won 3 in our history, we can't be picky can we? If we are good enough to get to an all Ireland and win it by playing fantastic high scoring football, great, that's a bonus. If we win it 9-8, I dont really care.
Ive critised MH previously. He got it wrong last year against Dublin. Is that clear enough. He got his tactics wrong. But I feel he deserves another chance to right that wrong."
There you go again creating an argument to debate rather than sticking to topic.

I never mentioned changing players. I have always said it was the system and management that needed to change. The current panel have my full backing and i consider them a very talented group of individuals.

It was you who have said twice now that you couldn't care less how we play.

So you have basically validated every argument i have made.

Really you should stop now when you are so far behind. You are starting to make a fool out of yourself.

Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 415 - 17/02/2018 09:19:56    2077568

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Replying To The_Fridge:  "I find it extremely funny that every time Wally says something you comment straight after saying essentially the same thing. Alot of the same phases and statements you both seem to use. Funny that. Some might think you two are the same person?"
The term clutching at straws comes to mind. Name one other time this person posted after me in a similar fashion?

Honestly you should stop now. Your childish replys are getting embarrassing.

Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 415 - 17/02/2018 09:32:14    2077569

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Replying To Wally:  "There you go again creating an argument to debate rather than sticking to topic.

I never mentioned changing players. I have always said it was the system and management that needed to change. The current panel have my full backing and i consider them a very talented group of individuals.

It was you who have said twice now that you couldn't care less how we play.

So you have basically validated every argument i have made.

Really you should stop now when you are so far behind. You are starting to make a fool out of yourself."
"I have always said it was the system and management that needed to change."

But Wally you haven't always said this. You clearly said in 2015 and 2016 that you defend Tyrone's system. Why are you not addressing this point? You clearly defended Tyrone on numerous cases. The evidence has been provided many times. It is only in the last 18 months that you have criticised Tyrone's system. You also lied about going to Tyrone games. Again the evidence is there. You have been inconsistent and flip flop your way though a season.

Wally we have won 3 all Ireland's in our history. Haven't won in 10 years. Do you think we can be picky on how we win an all Ireland? I couldn't give a hoot if we score a fluke goal in the last minute or we score 5-20 as long as we win. Tyrone need any all Ireland they can get. Ask any county apart from the Dubs would they care how they win an all Ireland. I'm sure they wouldn't care. I would say if we won an all Ireland like the final between Kerry and Donegal which wasn't a great spectacle you would still be complaining that we didn't play swash buckling football.

Wally just think before you type, and also read all the replies you receive before replying. Then your inconsistence and flip flopping may not be shown up.

The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 1197 - 17/02/2018 10:44:56    2077589

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Anyone saying Tyrone play exactly like Kerry, Dublin or Mayo is talking crap.

Occasionally those teams will find themselves with 13 men behind the ball. Tyrone almost never have more than 2 players ahead of the ball. The get caught out in transition at times with more ahead of the ball, but it's the job for all but 1 or 2 players to get back behind the ball.

If Dublin or Mayo have 14 behind the ball it's often because of the way the play has developed and they've had forwards working back tackling a specific situation. Dublin's usual shape has more than 1 player ahead of the ball.

Dublin go out to dominate a team. They win the ball as high as they can. Mayo the same. They press kick outs wanting to put pressure on teams and force mistakes high.

Tyrone don't they defend the scoring zone aggressively, suck teams in and then counter attack at speed.

Tyrone I think are way less likely to lose against teams weaker than them than say Mayo are. Tyrone really will not be Dublin playing this style. Dublin are to good at playing in tight spaces.

It's hard to know how good Tyrone's forwards are. In games against the better teams, they let their forwards get isolated. They end up having to kick from poor situations.

There is clearly not the same work on coordination in attack being done by Tyrone compared to Mayo, who are incredibly good at supporting around the man in possession."
I don't agree with you on that Whammo. There are variations on it but it's the same template. If Tyrone don't turn the ball over straight away they drop back. All templates are based on turning sides over and then breaking at speed. The movement of Bradley against Donegal in this years championship was great. He was constantly on the move as soon as Tyrone won possession. Even when he wasn't getting the ball he was creating space for the other players then to move into. I still think Tyrones problem is they don't have that one special player, whether it be an o'neill, canavan, gooch, mcconville. There is a lot of talk about Lee Brennan, but from what I've seen he shares a lot of the traits mccurry and co have, hes to inconsistent.

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4768 - 17/02/2018 11:42:04    2077599

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Tyrone will not beat Dublin this year playing to their regular system.

They could still win the All Ireland though. They are capable of beating Mayo and Kerry. Something like 2014 where Dublin lose a semifinal leaves a team like Tyrone in with a shot of winning Sam.

Tyrone are well setup to beat the likes of a Kerry.

Eamonn Fitzmaurice is comfortably the weakest of the managers of the top 4 counties."
Tyrone haven't won a big game in Croke Park in nearly a decade, yet you think they're able to beat Mayo and Kerry?

greatpoint (USA) - Posts: 162 - 17/02/2018 11:47:30    2077601

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Replying To The_Fridge:  ""I have always said it was the system and management that needed to change."

But Wally you haven't always said this. You clearly said in 2015 and 2016 that you defend Tyrone's system. Why are you not addressing this point? You clearly defended Tyrone on numerous cases. The evidence has been provided many times. It is only in the last 18 months that you have criticised Tyrone's system. You also lied about going to Tyrone games. Again the evidence is there. You have been inconsistent and flip flop your way though a season.

Wally we have won 3 all Ireland's in our history. Haven't won in 10 years. Do you think we can be picky on how we win an all Ireland? I couldn't give a hoot if we score a fluke goal in the last minute or we score 5-20 as long as we win. Tyrone need any all Ireland they can get. Ask any county apart from the Dubs would they care how they win an all Ireland. I'm sure they wouldn't care. I would say if we won an all Ireland like the final between Kerry and Donegal which wasn't a great spectacle you would still be complaining that we didn't play swash buckling football.

Wally just think before you type, and also read all the replies you receive before replying. Then your inconsistence and flip flopping may not be shown up."
Yawn!!

I am bored with this now. You have yet to properly debate this topic.

You constantly bring up these old quotes even though they have been refuted several times in the past as taken totally out of context regarding the topic of our managements approach and philosophy.

You change subject every time you are proved wrong and you are now trying to claim other posters are me in disguise.

You really need to take a long hard look at yourself sir and change your approach to debating on this forum as you have lost all credibility at this stage.

Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 415 - 17/02/2018 12:08:10    2077612

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Replying To Wally:  "Yawn!!

I am bored with this now. You have yet to properly debate this topic.

You constantly bring up these old quotes even though they have been refuted several times in the past as taken totally out of context regarding the topic of our managements approach and philosophy.

You change subject every time you are proved wrong and you are now trying to claim other posters are me in disguise.

You really need to take a long hard look at yourself sir and change your approach to debating on this forum as you have lost all credibility at this stage."
We will agree to disagree. Until the next time Wally.

The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 1197 - 17/02/2018 13:23:08    2077633

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Replying To The_Fridge:  "We will agree to disagree. Until the next time Wally."
Fair enough Fridge. Until next time.

Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 415 - 17/02/2018 14:08:22    2077643

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Replying To greatpoint:  "Tyrone haven't won a big game in Croke Park in nearly a decade, yet you think they're able to beat Mayo and Kerry?"
Yeah, I think they're capable of. They wouldn't be favourites but they'd have a very good chance. I'd be surprised if they'd be much more than 2 to 1 to win against either Mayo or Kerry.

Against Dublin they should be very long odds. Rightly so, I think they've next to no chance of beating Dublin.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 1996 - 17/02/2018 14:14:17    2077645

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When they were winning All Ireland's i think there was a deeply hostile agenda towards Tyrone from many within the GAA and Southern media BUT i don't know if it is still there now. They have been off the pace for so long that maybe Tyrone are over egging their own self importance and relevance within the football elite now.
Undoubtedly Tyrone got some very unfair press. They challenged the established order in Kerry, put it up to Dublin and did so in a way that shocked the football snobs. There was also a hostile, partitionist element to the coverage of Tyrone. There was a resentment because they came from Ulster and were Nordies who wouldn't lie down and know their place, particularly against Kerry.
The Southern media, especially RTE, should acknowledge their very unfair treatment of Tyrone. They should apologise and Tyrone should accept it and move on; it has become a distraction now.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9002 - 17/02/2018 14:14:40    2077646

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