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"There Are Signs Of An Agenda Against Tyrone"

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Replying To Wally:  "Good counter argument. Just name the team from 05. Really well thought out.

I think i was clear in my assessment that we dont have an O'Neill or Canavan, Mayo dont have these players either but it doesn't stop them from playing with abandon and actually attacking the Dublins and Kerrys of this world.

We had some great footballers in 05 but the environment which they played in created the ability to be great. They knew they could fully commit to the attack without any fear that they may break from the system.

On the contrary our players are in a system that stifles creativity so much that they literally dont know what to do once plan A doesnt work out.

Listen i played with and against most of the Tyrone team of the noughties at club level and skill wise the young lads we have right now are just as good. The difference is down to the system they play and the trust they have in each other and the trust the manager has in them, which appears to be none.

What about you name the team of 08. On paper was that team world beaters?"
All Ireland winning team 2008: McConnell, R McMenamin, Justin McMahon, R Mellon, D Harte, C Gormley, P Jordan, C Holmes, E McGinley, B Dooher, M Penrose, Joe McMahon, T McGuigan, S Cavanagh, C
McCullagh

Team vs Dublin last year: Morgan; Aidan McCrory, Ronan McNamee, Cathal McCarron; Tiernan McCann, Padraig Hampsey; Peter Harte; Colm Cavanagh, Conall McCann; David Mulgrew, Niall Sudden, Kieran McGeary; Mark Bradley, Sean Cavanagh, Matthew Donnelly

I think your arguement is dead in the water.

The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 1374 - 15/02/2018 23:33:03    2077303

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Replying To Wally:  "Good counter argument. Just name the team from 05. Really well thought out.

I think i was clear in my assessment that we dont have an O'Neill or Canavan, Mayo dont have these players either but it doesn't stop them from playing with abandon and actually attacking the Dublins and Kerrys of this world.

We had some great footballers in 05 but the environment which they played in created the ability to be great. They knew they could fully commit to the attack without any fear that they may break from the system.

On the contrary our players are in a system that stifles creativity so much that they literally dont know what to do once plan A doesnt work out.

Listen i played with and against most of the Tyrone team of the noughties at club level and skill wise the young lads we have right now are just as good. The difference is down to the system they play and the trust they have in each other and the trust the manager has in them, which appears to be none.

What about you name the team of 08. On paper was that team world beaters?"
Wally
You do remember some of the vitriol that was aimed at the Tyrone teams off that era from the media? "Puke football" O'Rourke's quip about Dooher and eating his hat. Article after article criticising Tyrone for their style of play. Surely you remember this!!!!!!!
You criticise Tyrone for playing defensive counter attacking football even though it's been proved that Dublin play the exact same way. Dublin 2011, Donegal and Kerry all won all Ireland's playing defensively.

The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 1374 - 15/02/2018 23:48:44    2077304

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Replying To The_Fridge:  "Wally
You do remember some of the vitriol that was aimed at the Tyrone teams off that era from the media? "Puke football" O'Rourke's quip about Dooher and eating his hat. Article after article criticising Tyrone for their style of play. Surely you remember this!!!!!!!
You criticise Tyrone for playing defensive counter attacking football even though it's been proved that Dublin play the exact same way. Dublin 2011, Donegal and Kerry all won all Ireland's playing defensively."
Fridge you really have a knack for creating an argument in your head and then defending that argument even through it has nothing really to do with the topic in hand.

What has the critique of Tyrone during the noughties from certain elements of the media got to do with the topic at the moment?

I never said we did not play defensive counter attacking football back then. I have never said that other teams do not play this way. I have never said that we should not play a counter attacking game now. I have actually been quite clear that most teams actually set up the same way.

The difference between us and the other top teams is that they actually go out and attack the game and try to beat the opposition. They match their intensity and equal their risk in the counter attack.

I never said that we should revert back to 15 vrs 15, but we can't keep going they way we are because it is getting us nowhere in our ultimate ambition of winning another All Ireland. It was soul destroying watching a team of very talented players in last years semi final look absolutely clueless when their initial game plan wasn't working. These guys should be instinctive, not looking blankly to the sideline when things are not working out. In that game we were losing by 10 points in the second half yet we still had 12-13 men behind the ball. It is total madness.

Attack the game and take them on and don't worry that their jersey says Dublin or Mayo or Kerry. Take a leaf out of our team of the noughties and show absolutely no respect to the opposing team.

This year we will still set up with men behind the ball and play a defensive/counter attacking game but we have to trust our players to the last. This has to be the case regardless of who we are playing, and if things are not working out then we need to let the players know that they can revert to plan B or they should know this instinctively.

Again I think this is stemming from our managements philosophy and not from a lack of quality available to us.

The media are just pointing out exactly what they see in front of them, same way I am. When I watch Tyrone, 99% of the time they are boring and lateral. When I watch Dublin and Mayo they are exciting and entertaining. If I was a talented young footballer and I was given the choice of which county to play for then Tyrone would be my last choice at the moment, as it just looks so regimented, restrictive and boring.

Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 475 - 16/02/2018 09:06:19    2077318

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There's always been somewhat of an agenda against Tyrone but I think in this case it's more of an agenda basically against not Dublin/Kerry/Mayo.

Most (obviously not all) teams use the same tactics as Tyrone and it's basically just if a team wins or loses that people focus on them. Lose and it's the tactics that are stifling them, win and its great to see them let the shackles off and play football.

When a team that's labelled as negative puts up a big score (as Tyrone very regularly do) it's always reported that they played with more freedom blah blah blah when in fact it's just that their perceived negative tactics worked to a tee.

Breffni39 (Cavan) - Posts: 11509 - 16/02/2018 09:43:42    2077327

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Kerry, Mayo and Dublin do get players back when they need to defend.
But by and large they are attractive teams to watch.
Whereas Tyrone gets players back but their main outlook is defend and from what I see attacking players are sacrificed.
I am on Wally's side here!

woops (Kerry) - Posts: 1996 - 16/02/2018 10:21:57    2077339

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Ask Kyle Coney what he thinks! :D

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 6098 - 16/02/2018 11:09:07    2077350

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The fridge is happy enuf with McKenna cup titles and Ulster titles! But getting hammered in semi finals he's no answer for but keeps his blind faith in Micky Harte and his system which everybody knows it's not gonna work against the big 3!! Tyrone aren't near the level for Sam and won't b under Micky!

Tyronecelt (Tyrone) - Posts: 31 - 16/02/2018 11:10:28    2077352

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Replying To woops:  "Kerry, Mayo and Dublin do get players back when they need to defend.
But by and large they are attractive teams to watch.
Whereas Tyrone gets players back but their main outlook is defend and from what I see attacking players are sacrificed.
I am on Wally's side here!"
That is a ridiculous statement. Is it more attractive to watch if the jersey is green or blue rather than white? Tyrone defend in numbers and break at speed with runners off the shoulder. 1 man is left inside (which is something that Kerry & Dublin don't always do) and the man inside is constantly moving when Tyrone have possession to create space for the runners coming from deep. Literally the exact same way the other big teams play. So why is one unattractive and the others attractive?

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4879 - 16/02/2018 11:13:08    2077354

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Replying To Tyronecelt:  "The fridge is happy enuf with McKenna cup titles and Ulster titles! But getting hammered in semi finals he's no answer for but keeps his blind faith in Micky Harte and his system which everybody knows it's not gonna work against the big 3!! Tyrone aren't near the level for Sam and won't b under Micky!"
Semi finals is the plural of the word. One semi final Tyrone have been hammered in. 2016 beat by a point by one of the big 3 in a qf where the lack of a clutch player haunted them, lost by 4 points in the 2015 semi when they had three great goal chances, again the lack of a clutch player haunted them. So 1 semi final Tyrone have been beaten out the gate in, in fact it's one game in about three years that Tyrone have got a timbering in. You are quite a fickle character if you think one timbering in three years is reason enough for an overhaul.

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4879 - 16/02/2018 11:17:54    2077356

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Replying To Wally:  "Fridge you really have a knack for creating an argument in your head and then defending that argument even through it has nothing really to do with the topic in hand.

What has the critique of Tyrone during the noughties from certain elements of the media got to do with the topic at the moment?

I never said we did not play defensive counter attacking football back then. I have never said that other teams do not play this way. I have never said that we should not play a counter attacking game now. I have actually been quite clear that most teams actually set up the same way.

The difference between us and the other top teams is that they actually go out and attack the game and try to beat the opposition. They match their intensity and equal their risk in the counter attack.

I never said that we should revert back to 15 vrs 15, but we can't keep going they way we are because it is getting us nowhere in our ultimate ambition of winning another All Ireland. It was soul destroying watching a team of very talented players in last years semi final look absolutely clueless when their initial game plan wasn't working. These guys should be instinctive, not looking blankly to the sideline when things are not working out. In that game we were losing by 10 points in the second half yet we still had 12-13 men behind the ball. It is total madness.

Attack the game and take them on and don't worry that their jersey says Dublin or Mayo or Kerry. Take a leaf out of our team of the noughties and show absolutely no respect to the opposing team.

This year we will still set up with men behind the ball and play a defensive/counter attacking game but we have to trust our players to the last. This has to be the case regardless of who we are playing, and if things are not working out then we need to let the players know that they can revert to plan B or they should know this instinctively.

Again I think this is stemming from our managements philosophy and not from a lack of quality available to us.

The media are just pointing out exactly what they see in front of them, same way I am. When I watch Tyrone, 99% of the time they are boring and lateral. When I watch Dublin and Mayo they are exciting and entertaining. If I was a talented young footballer and I was given the choice of which county to play for then Tyrone would be my last choice at the moment, as it just looks so regimented, restrictive and boring."
Wally
You quite clearly have an agenda.
You said in 2016 "Tyrone have scored 4 Goals and 35 Points in their last 3 league games.

During this time they have received 6 yellow cards and no red cards.

Someone explain to me how they are still being described as a negative team???"

Again in 2015 you said
"What more up our sleeves? More than the 127 points throughout the league and the 3-14 against Derry and 5-34 over two games against Cavan in the championship?" Again defending Tyrone's tactics.

You claimed that you "haven't been to a Tyrone game in 8 years because of their negatively" but you were at the semi final last year.

I'm not sure why you have changed your tune from 2017.....maybe MH didn't pick your 3rd cousin from your club and you are bitter about it?
Also MH isn't free from criticism-MH and his back room team got it wrong against Dublin last year. I'm sure he realises that. In the league against Dublin there was a clear change of tactic, not dramatic, but there was certainly more forwards up. I'm very sure if Tyrone play Dublin again he won't do the exact same thing again because it will be the same result.
In 2015 and 2016 they could arguably have been in the all Ireland losing narrowly to Mayo and Kerry.
I just hope you get off your high horse and bring a bit of consistency to your arguments. Stop flip flopping.

The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 1374 - 16/02/2018 11:51:41    2077361

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Replying To The_Fridge:  "Wally
You quite clearly have an agenda.
You said in 2016 "Tyrone have scored 4 Goals and 35 Points in their last 3 league games.

During this time they have received 6 yellow cards and no red cards.

Someone explain to me how they are still being described as a negative team???"

Again in 2015 you said
"What more up our sleeves? More than the 127 points throughout the league and the 3-14 against Derry and 5-34 over two games against Cavan in the championship?" Again defending Tyrone's tactics.

You claimed that you "haven't been to a Tyrone game in 8 years because of their negatively" but you were at the semi final last year.

I'm not sure why you have changed your tune from 2017.....maybe MH didn't pick your 3rd cousin from your club and you are bitter about it?
Also MH isn't free from criticism-MH and his back room team got it wrong against Dublin last year. I'm sure he realises that. In the league against Dublin there was a clear change of tactic, not dramatic, but there was certainly more forwards up. I'm very sure if Tyrone play Dublin again he won't do the exact same thing again because it will be the same result.
In 2015 and 2016 they could arguably have been in the all Ireland losing narrowly to Mayo and Kerry.
I just hope you get off your high horse and bring a bit of consistency to your arguments. Stop flip flopping."
You know when you have won the augment with Fridge when he reverts back to his old chestnut of searching for quotes from years ago.

I have proven on several occasions over the years that you have taken these statements out of context and you misquote them to try and back up your argument. I am exhausted with that conversation and I am not going to start into proving you wrong again.

I have been extremely consistent over the years on my criticism of our management team but I will defend our players to the last especially if this about cynical antics, as the statements above referred to.

I have no personal agenda against Mickey. Tyrone supporters are allowed to disagree with our management especially when we are served up the type of football that we do. But the fundamental 'Mickey can do no wrong' brigade always try to make it personal or assume that someone must have an axe to grind.

Also lets get something straight. We were not almost in an All Ireland Final in 2016. We were beaten by Mayo in the QUARTER FINAL. We could not score in the final 20 min of that game purely due to the system which we deployed and the fear which has been instilled in our players.

The 2015 semi final against Kerry was the last time that I actually thought we had turned a corner. We were completely written off before that game and we displayed the type of controlled aggression and adventure which the team of the noughties had. We actually were only beaten that day due to our immaturity in front of goal. I really thought things would change after that game but it was obviously a wake up call to our management to suppress anything like that type of play again.

We have to be more ambitious instead of resigning ourselves to a system that will only get us so far. We need to make a decision if we want to be All Ireland contenders or just also rans.

We are a big country with huge resources and an underage structure that most other counties would envy. We have great young footballers coming through year after year and I believe they are as good as what any other county has. We can't keep bringing up the old argument that we don't have a Peter Canavan or Stephen O'Neill anymore. They were once in a generation players and we need to let that go.

I will finish with this.

Do Tyrone want to be a team that supporters can be proud off and want to watch? Do we want our players to play with a smile on their face? Do we want to confidently compete with the big 3 or 4 teams in the country? Do we want to win an All Ireland playing the right way?

After all we have seen this decade, is Mickey Harte the man to do this now???




'

Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 475 - 16/02/2018 12:55:49    2077380

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Replying To Wally:  "You know when you have won the augment with Fridge when he reverts back to his old chestnut of searching for quotes from years ago.

I have proven on several occasions over the years that you have taken these statements out of context and you misquote them to try and back up your argument. I am exhausted with that conversation and I am not going to start into proving you wrong again.

I have been extremely consistent over the years on my criticism of our management team but I will defend our players to the last especially if this about cynical antics, as the statements above referred to.

I have no personal agenda against Mickey. Tyrone supporters are allowed to disagree with our management especially when we are served up the type of football that we do. But the fundamental 'Mickey can do no wrong' brigade always try to make it personal or assume that someone must have an axe to grind.

Also lets get something straight. We were not almost in an All Ireland Final in 2016. We were beaten by Mayo in the QUARTER FINAL. We could not score in the final 20 min of that game purely due to the system which we deployed and the fear which has been instilled in our players.

The 2015 semi final against Kerry was the last time that I actually thought we had turned a corner. We were completely written off before that game and we displayed the type of controlled aggression and adventure which the team of the noughties had. We actually were only beaten that day due to our immaturity in front of goal. I really thought things would change after that game but it was obviously a wake up call to our management to suppress anything like that type of play again.

We have to be more ambitious instead of resigning ourselves to a system that will only get us so far. We need to make a decision if we want to be All Ireland contenders or just also rans.

We are a big country with huge resources and an underage structure that most other counties would envy. We have great young footballers coming through year after year and I believe they are as good as what any other county has. We can't keep bringing up the old argument that we don't have a Peter Canavan or Stephen O'Neill anymore. They were once in a generation players and we need to let that go.

I will finish with this.

Do Tyrone want to be a team that supporters can be proud off and want to watch? Do we want our players to play with a smile on their face? Do we want to confidently compete with the big 3 or 4 teams in the country? Do we want to win an All Ireland playing the right way?

After all we have seen this decade, is Mickey Harte the man to do this now???




'"
Wally
At best your been inconsistent, evidence shows that you have changed your mind as little as 18 months ago. You seem to have an axe to grind which is unfortunate. Maybe your 3rd cousin might get a game in the future and you will be singing the praises of the management in 18 months time, I don't know.
MH is not infallible to criticism. Not sure how many times I have to say that. The media and fans have criticised MH.
I'm proud of every single Tyrone team, many many Tyrone teams won nothing and they bought a lot of joy to Tyrone supporters. However you don't go to Tyrone games so maybe you don't understand that. I couldn't care less how we win the all Ireland. If you think Tyrone can pick and choose how we win the all Ireland you are deluded, we have won 3 in our history and haven't won for 10 years. A 9-8 win will do me fine.

The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 1374 - 16/02/2018 13:56:42    2077393

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Dublin no doubt drop men back but they have the capability to still score heavily. A hugely valuable advantage to have at their disposal but there's a good reason for it.

Dublin were an unbalanced side in 2013/2014 and it caught up with Gavin but fair play he still had plenty of success up to the 2014 semifinal and played some top end attacking football.

After that loss in 2014 Gavin of course had to change things and add more balance. It's no coincidence that since that game Dublin have consistently had the best or one of the best defensive records over the last few years on top of still scoring heavily.

Dublin most certainly drop men back and long may it continue because that offensive/defensive balance has brought Dublin 3 titles on the bounce and as long as they continue to play like that they'll be very hard to beat.

Play to your strengths but be able to adapt to win.

It is unfair and lazy to suggest it's only Tyrone who focuses on getting players behind the ball. It's more of a carry over legacy issue for Tyrone. The negative publicity of the last decade has attached itself to Tyrone and its a sort of easy sounbite to churn out.

On their day they are capable of beating a top 3 team but ultimately I can't see them winning Sam again until they are fortunate enough to have the players that allows them to have a more balanced side.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 18687 - 16/02/2018 14:39:10    2077408

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Replying To gotmilk:  "He is right though. Watch Kerry, Dublin, Mayo etc and they all flood players back. I saw a clip from the recent league game between Tyrone & Dublin and every player was inside their own 45. The difference between Tyrone and the Dublin and Kerrys is they don't have that player that will always put the ball over the bar. They don't have a clutch type player that you know will produce the goods. The QF against Mayo two years ago is the perfect example. Better side, numerous chances to win that game but how many wides did they hit. McCurry, Ronan O'Neill and from what I've seen of Brennan have the potential to be world beaters but when the pressure is on they choke. Tyrone scored 6-77 in 4 games last year before they played Dublin. 6-77 That's more than 1-20 per game if my maths is right over those 4 games. Tyrone aren't a defensive side in that they don't attack, Tyrone are a side that don't have any clutch players and that is the problem facing Tyrone. Until they get that player that can slot the ball over the bar in a tight game they aren't going anywhere in a hurry.

Mickey Harte is 100% spot on when he says there is an agenda here. Tyrone play the same template as Dublin & Kerry yet Tyrone are accused of being defensive where as the other 2 are lauded as attacking purists."
Tyrone play the same template as Dublin & Kerry yet Tyrone are accused of being defensive where as the other 2 are lauded as attacking purists.

Is that a fair comment? Dublin and Kerry do filter players back when defending, like all teams do. It'd be pretty naïve for a bunch of forwards to stay in their positions when their respective markers are on the attack so you could argue that all teams have the same defensive template, in the most general sense of the term.

In relation to attack, do Tyrone play the high press on opponents kickouts like Mayo and Kerry have been seen to do? Do Tyrone transition the ball as quickly through a series of kicking and quick interplay like the top teams? Do Tyrone have the same support play to create movement within their forward line when the opposing defence are largely in position, like Dublin do? If the answer to the above is not an unequivocal "yes" in all cases, you can't say that Tyrone use the same template as the others. That's pretty much down to Harte. He sets up his team in his preferred manner so criticisms of Tyrone's playing style, unfounded or otherwise, are a reflection on him. Is he really the most objective party to suggest there's an agenda in this case?

Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 432 - 16/02/2018 14:49:14    2077410

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Replying To The_Fridge:  "Wally
You do remember some of the vitriol that was aimed at the Tyrone teams off that era from the media? "Puke football" O'Rourke's quip about Dooher and eating his hat. Article after article criticising Tyrone for their style of play. Surely you remember this!!!!!!!
You criticise Tyrone for playing defensive counter attacking football even though it's been proved that Dublin play the exact same way. Dublin 2011, Donegal and Kerry all won all Ireland's playing defensively."
Bit harsh on Donegal there. I thought they were fairly swashbuckling in their approach in 2012.

Kurt_Angle (Dublin) - Posts: 432 - 16/02/2018 14:49:29    2077411

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Replying To The_Fridge:  "All Ireland winning team 2008: McConnell, R McMenamin, Justin McMahon, R Mellon, D Harte, C Gormley, P Jordan, C Holmes, E McGinley, B Dooher, M Penrose, Joe McMahon, T McGuigan, S Cavanagh, C
McCullagh

Team vs Dublin last year: Morgan; Aidan McCrory, Ronan McNamee, Cathal McCarron; Tiernan McCann, Padraig Hampsey; Peter Harte; Colm Cavanagh, Conall McCann; David Mulgrew, Niall Sudden, Kieran McGeary; Mark Bradley, Sean Cavanagh, Matthew Donnelly

I think your arguement is dead in the water."
Comparing the 2 teams.. using a scoring system 1:0 for a better than() , and 1:1 for as good as ..

All Ireland winning team 2008: McConnell (0) ,
R McMenamin(1) , Justin McMahon(1) , R Mellon(0) ,
D Harte(0) , C Gormley(1) , P Jordan(1) ,
C Holmes(0) , E McGinley(1) ,
B Dooher(1) , M Penrose(1) , Joe McMahon(1) ,
T McGuigan(1) , S Cavanagh(1) , C McCullagh (0)


Team vs Dublin last year: Morgan (1);
Aidan McCrory(0) , Ronan McNamee(0) , Cathal McCarron (1);
Tiernan McCann(1) , Padraig Hampsey (0); Peter Harte (1);
Colm Cavanagh(1) , Conall McCann(0);
David Mulgrew(0) , Niall Sudden(1) , Kieran McGeary(0);
Mark Bradley(1) , Sean Cavanagh(1) , Matthew Donnelly (1)

Total
2008 10
2016 9

So not far of the mark and I was very tempted to give Hampsey a 1

Todays team are a very decent team with some outstanding players.. plus Lee Brennan looks the real deal

Farney (Monaghan) - Posts: 670 - 16/02/2018 14:54:57    2077412

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Replying To jimbodub:  "Dublin no doubt drop men back but they have the capability to still score heavily. A hugely valuable advantage to have at their disposal but there's a good reason for it.

Dublin were an unbalanced side in 2013/2014 and it caught up with Gavin but fair play he still had plenty of success up to the 2014 semifinal and played some top end attacking football.

After that loss in 2014 Gavin of course had to change things and add more balance. It's no coincidence that since that game Dublin have consistently had the best or one of the best defensive records over the last few years on top of still scoring heavily.

Dublin most certainly drop men back and long may it continue because that offensive/defensive balance has brought Dublin 3 titles on the bounce and as long as they continue to play like that they'll be very hard to beat.

Play to your strengths but be able to adapt to win.

It is unfair and lazy to suggest it's only Tyrone who focuses on getting players behind the ball. It's more of a carry over legacy issue for Tyrone. The negative publicity of the last decade has attached itself to Tyrone and its a sort of easy sounbite to churn out.

On their day they are capable of beating a top 3 team but ultimately I can't see them winning Sam again until they are fortunate enough to have the players that allows them to have a more balanced side."
I'll be damned. A logical, reasonable post.

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4879 - 16/02/2018 15:19:05    2077419

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Replying To gotmilk:  "I'll be damned. A logical, reasonable post."
Haha

I'll take that as a compliment

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 18687 - 16/02/2018 15:25:30    2077421

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Replying To Farney:  "Comparing the 2 teams.. using a scoring system 1:0 for a better than() , and 1:1 for as good as ..

All Ireland winning team 2008: McConnell (0) ,
R McMenamin(1) , Justin McMahon(1) , R Mellon(0) ,
D Harte(0) , C Gormley(1) , P Jordan(1) ,
C Holmes(0) , E McGinley(1) ,
B Dooher(1) , M Penrose(1) , Joe McMahon(1) ,
T McGuigan(1) , S Cavanagh(1) , C McCullagh (0)


Team vs Dublin last year: Morgan (1);
Aidan McCrory(0) , Ronan McNamee(0) , Cathal McCarron (1);
Tiernan McCann(1) , Padraig Hampsey (0); Peter Harte (1);
Colm Cavanagh(1) , Conall McCann(0);
David Mulgrew(0) , Niall Sudden(1) , Kieran McGeary(0);
Mark Bradley(1) , Sean Cavanagh(1) , Matthew Donnelly (1)

Total
2008 10
2016 9

So not far of the mark and I was very tempted to give Hampsey a 1

Todays team are a very decent team with some outstanding players.. plus Lee Brennan looks the real deal"
But you wouldn't give Colm McCullagh a 1?

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4879 - 16/02/2018 15:36:10    2077424

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Replying To Kurt_Angle:  "Tyrone play the same template as Dublin & Kerry yet Tyrone are accused of being defensive where as the other 2 are lauded as attacking purists.

Is that a fair comment? Dublin and Kerry do filter players back when defending, like all teams do. It'd be pretty naïve for a bunch of forwards to stay in their positions when their respective markers are on the attack so you could argue that all teams have the same defensive template, in the most general sense of the term.

In relation to attack, do Tyrone play the high press on opponents kickouts like Mayo and Kerry have been seen to do? Do Tyrone transition the ball as quickly through a series of kicking and quick interplay like the top teams? Do Tyrone have the same support play to create movement within their forward line when the opposing defence are largely in position, like Dublin do? If the answer to the above is not an unequivocal "yes" in all cases, you can't say that Tyrone use the same template as the others. That's pretty much down to Harte. He sets up his team in his preferred manner so criticisms of Tyrone's playing style, unfounded or otherwise, are a reflection on him. Is he really the most objective party to suggest there's an agenda in this case?"
Against Fermanagh in the McKenna cup Tyrone pushed up on Kickouts. I watched them do the same against Donegal last year. The core of the template is the same, each side will have variations on it but as a general rule it's the same template.

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4879 - 16/02/2018 15:41:51    2077425

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