National Forum

GAA Finances & purchasing a farm.

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


At long last loads of factual analysis & reports online now, showing the massive anomaly in funding that Dublin are receiving in comparison to everyone else. Even when provincial council money is removed from the equation the gap is still massive. Great report on it by Colm Keys. What is an absolute scandal & shameful is that Paraic Duffy dismisses with some disdain any criticism of the current funding.

Uimhir.a.3. (Galway) - Posts: 409 - 02/02/2018 21:25:33    2073480

Link

Replying To MesAmis:  "All joking aside, what is the purpose of the farm to the GAA?
Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2094 - 02/02/2018 16:12:24

Essentially to grow or "farm" pitches for Croke Park, Páirc Uí Chaoimh etc to be re-sodded after concerts or a number of years of play.

They also hope to sell pitches to other codes home and abroad.

As it stands the GAA actually buys in pitches from Britain and ship them over, mad as it sounds."
Thanks folks for the replies. I assumed that was the case but said i'd ask in case they were going to use it to grow vegetables too because in fairness to Croke Park they like to promote the fact that they are a green stadium.

I think they did something with ESB so that all electricity used is from renewables or something to that effect.

It makes sense to grow their own sod because it is an expensive business buying it in from outside parties.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 02/02/2018 22:56:53    2073493

Link

Replying To Uimhir.a.3.:  "At long last loads of factual analysis & reports online now, showing the massive anomaly in funding that Dublin are receiving in comparison to everyone else. Even when provincial council money is removed from the equation the gap is still massive. Great report on it by Colm Keys. What is an absolute scandal & shameful is that Paraic Duffy dismisses with some disdain any criticism of the current funding."
I read it too. It's crazy, I don't think anyone would have a problem with Dublin getting the biggest slice of funding being the biggest population centre but 16.6m is way too much when Cork are second with 1.2 m.

I remember a couple of years ago the managers of the counties that were working hard to close the gap to the traditional counties were basically begging for funding in post match interviews. When you see how Shanley and Cunningham have dismantled Dublin Hurling it's very disappointing.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 02/02/2018 23:01:33    2073494

Link

Replying To Whammo86:  "There's a lot of rubbish in this thread.


People comparing €237 per registered player in Dublin to €37 in other counties aren't comparing like for like.

Development officers in Dublin are paid directly by Dublin.

Development officers working in every other county in Ireland are paid by their Provincial councils.

If you're going to discuss this you can't just can't be comparing numbers that just shouldn't be compared."
so Dublin is being treated as a seperate province now?

manfromdelmonte (UK) - Posts: 541 - 03/02/2018 00:00:00    2073503

Link

Replying To manfromdelmonte:  "so Dublin is being treated as a seperate province now?"
In the GAA in Ireland games development officers are employed to Dublin county board or the relevant Provincial council.

The money for this comes from the GAA's development grants.

So take for example the GAA recently decided to invest more in Meath, Louth, Wicklow and Kildare. None of the extra €500 they were putting in went to the individual county boards, it went to the Leinster council but it is still money that is benefiting that county.

Every county gets dedicated games development officers, just none of them pay for them directly, except Dublin.

Over the years Dublin have gotten around 15-20% of the total development money spend.

If someone wants to have a meaningful discussion on this, they need to be discussing this, not the individual county breakdowns.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4203 - 03/02/2018 07:38:53    2073516

Link

Replying To Whammo86:  "In the GAA in Ireland games development officers are employed to Dublin county board or the relevant Provincial council.

The money for this comes from the GAA's development grants.

So take for example the GAA recently decided to invest more in Meath, Louth, Wicklow and Kildare. None of the extra €500 they were putting in went to the individual county boards, it went to the Leinster council but it is still money that is benefiting that county.

Every county gets dedicated games development officers, just none of them pay for them directly, except Dublin.

Over the years Dublin have gotten around 15-20% of the total development money spend.

If someone wants to have a meaningful discussion on this, they need to be discussing this, not the individual county breakdowns."
Your argument is fisicos, there is nothing to justify Dublin being treated like its own province when a county like Cork with more clubs and similar playing figures isn't. That just shows up the disparity between Dublin and the rest even more.

How many games development officers does Dublin have compared to other counties. Multiplies, so they have to pay 50% of the cost to get dozens more than any other county with plenty of funding to make up that 50% in the first place. Seems like a pretty decent bargain.

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 03/02/2018 11:42:14    2073550

Link

Replying To TheHermit:  "Your argument is fisicos, there is nothing to justify Dublin being treated like its own province when a county like Cork with more clubs and similar playing figures isn't. That just shows up the disparity between Dublin and the rest even more.

How many games development officers does Dublin have compared to other counties. Multiplies, so they have to pay 50% of the cost to get dozens more than any other county with plenty of funding to make up that 50% in the first place. Seems like a pretty decent bargain."
It's administered like a Province because it's got way more people than any other county than the country.

Jfc

I also don't get why playing numbers are the be all and end all here.

The money that everyone complains about is development money.

This goes to growing the game. Dublin with their young population is where that money can be best spent. Getting children playing Gaelic games instead of soccer, rugby, hockey or whatever.

It's grassroots funding where it can do the most good.

The GAA isn't financially doping Dublin, it's just funding its own game in its greatest population centre.

It's only an issue in the GAA because of the way the top level of the sport is organised into the county system.

As someone who really is just a GAA fan rather than caring too much about the county game I can see that it makes sense for the GAA to put its resources to use in the area that it will do the most good.

The GAA doesn't exist within a vacuum. Dublin dominates every Irish sport, ever sport funds the Dublin area substantially.
Dublin dominates in every walk of Irish life, it's just what happens when 1 city is such a huge population centre compared to the rest of the country.

Realistically it just can't be any other way.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4203 - 03/02/2018 12:53:20    2073567

Link

Replying To Whammo86:  "It's administered like a Province because it's got way more people than any other county than the country.

Jfc

I also don't get why playing numbers are the be all and end all here.

The money that everyone complains about is development money.

This goes to growing the game. Dublin with their young population is where that money can be best spent. Getting children playing Gaelic games instead of soccer, rugby, hockey or whatever.

It's grassroots funding where it can do the most good.

The GAA isn't financially doping Dublin, it's just funding its own game in its greatest population centre.

It's only an issue in the GAA because of the way the top level of the sport is organised into the county system.

As someone who really is just a GAA fan rather than caring too much about the county game I can see that it makes sense for the GAA to put its resources to use in the area that it will do the most good.

The GAA doesn't exist within a vacuum. Dublin dominates every Irish sport, ever sport funds the Dublin area substantially.
Dublin dominates in every walk of Irish life, it's just what happens when 1 city is such a huge population centre compared to the rest of the country.

Realistically it just can't be any other way."
Wouldn't agree with that mate. Cork City are league of Ireland champions. Before that Dundalk dominated. Dublin hurling isn't dominating life either. Leinster rugby isn't Dublin dominated either. And I would like to know is every county in the country funded for the children you talked about by the GAA to the same level? I don't honestly know the answer.

kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 854 - 03/02/2018 13:20:51    2073574

Link

Replying To Whammo86:  "It's administered like a Province because it's got way more people than any other county than the country.

Jfc

I also don't get why playing numbers are the be all and end all here.

The money that everyone complains about is development money.

This goes to growing the game. Dublin with their young population is where that money can be best spent. Getting children playing Gaelic games instead of soccer, rugby, hockey or whatever.

It's grassroots funding where it can do the most good.

The GAA isn't financially doping Dublin, it's just funding its own game in its greatest population centre.

It's only an issue in the GAA because of the way the top level of the sport is organised into the county system.

As someone who really is just a GAA fan rather than caring too much about the county game I can see that it makes sense for the GAA to put its resources to use in the area that it will do the most good.

The GAA doesn't exist within a vacuum. Dublin dominates every Irish sport, ever sport funds the Dublin area substantially.
Dublin dominates in every walk of Irish life, it's just what happens when 1 city is such a huge population centre compared to the rest of the country.

Realistically it just can't be any other way."
They received about 20 times more funding for games development then meath and Kildare over the last 10 years. Their population is nowhere near 20 times bigger. Clubs in Dublin that are smaller then clubs in meath and Kildare are receiving more funding.

It's no coincidence rugby and soccer have really taken off in leinster counties over the last 10 years as they are neglected in favour of Dublin. What exactly is the point of making the county with all the advantages and natural resources unbeatable by leinster opposition? Surely leinster counties should receive more funding then Dublin to keep them competitive with the juggernaut.

Jack_Goff (Meath) - Posts: 2920 - 03/02/2018 15:20:40    2073608

Link

Replying To Jack_Goff:  "They received about 20 times more funding for games development then meath and Kildare over the last 10 years. Their population is nowhere near 20 times bigger. Clubs in Dublin that are smaller then clubs in meath and Kildare are receiving more funding.

It's no coincidence rugby and soccer have really taken off in leinster counties over the last 10 years as they are neglected in favour of Dublin. What exactly is the point of making the county with all the advantages and natural resources unbeatable by leinster opposition? Surely leinster counties should receive more funding then Dublin to keep them competitive with the juggernaut."
But Dublin need that money jack, how else are they going to pay for the bus load of backroom staff.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 03/02/2018 16:38:56    2073626

Link

http://www.gaa.ie/mm/Document/MyGAA/ClubAdministrators/12/21/49/GamesDevelopmentAnnualReport2014_English.pdf

Good info here on development money in the appendix.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4203 - 03/02/2018 17:15:45    2073633

Link

Replying To Jack_Goff:  "They received about 20 times more funding for games development then meath and Kildare over the last 10 years. Their population is nowhere near 20 times bigger. Clubs in Dublin that are smaller then clubs in meath and Kildare are receiving more funding.

It's no coincidence rugby and soccer have really taken off in leinster counties over the last 10 years as they are neglected in favour of Dublin. What exactly is the point of making the county with all the advantages and natural resources unbeatable by leinster opposition? Surely leinster counties should receive more funding then Dublin to keep them competitive with the juggernaut."
They don't get 20 times spent on them. That's my whole point.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4203 - 03/02/2018 17:51:57    2073641

Link

Replying To Whammo86:  "They don't get 20 times spent on them. That's my whole point."
Your harping on all the time here about the development money despite several journalists dissecting the figures this week & showing that even excluding that figure, it shows that Dublin are grossly overfunded in comparison to everyone else. Your constant defence of this is like the way Paraic Duffy dismisses any criticism of it, have you a vested interest or is it that you don't like been proven wrong. Your other argument about comparing like for like such as population also doesn't stack up, Dublin receive greater funding that the rest of the entire Leinster province which has a greater combined population, similarly when you contrast the combined population of Munster, also Ulster & though the most under deprived province Connacht has a combined population of less than half that of Dublin it gets a much smaller slice of the pie than Dublin despite all the disadvantages it faces. No cognisance is taken either of the fact of Dublin's greater ability to access sponsorship & the money that turns over in comparison to all others, so allied with the inequality of funding from the GAA, it's a massive scandal & all Paraic Duffy does is dismiss any arguments on it.

Uimhir.a.3. (Galway) - Posts: 409 - 04/02/2018 17:54:41    2073924

Link

Replying To Uimhir.a.3.:  "Your harping on all the time here about the development money despite several journalists dissecting the figures this week & showing that even excluding that figure, it shows that Dublin are grossly overfunded in comparison to everyone else. Your constant defence of this is like the way Paraic Duffy dismisses any criticism of it, have you a vested interest or is it that you don't like been proven wrong. Your other argument about comparing like for like such as population also doesn't stack up, Dublin receive greater funding that the rest of the entire Leinster province which has a greater combined population, similarly when you contrast the combined population of Munster, also Ulster & though the most under deprived province Connacht has a combined population of less than half that of Dublin it gets a much smaller slice of the pie than Dublin despite all the disadvantages it faces. No cognisance is taken either of the fact of Dublin's greater ability to access sponsorship & the money that turns over in comparison to all others, so allied with the inequality of funding from the GAA, it's a massive scandal & all Paraic Duffy does is dismiss any arguments on it."
Leinster doesnt have a greater population than Dublin.

Can you post the figures you have accumulated on comparisons with cumulative funding of the other three provinces? I'm assuming you have added the coaching grants from provincal councils as well as games development money, as we know Dublin is the only county that doesn't receive one.

Your Lesinster figures are weird seeing as Kildare, Meath, Louth, Wicklow and WM got 500k this year in additional funding.

I wouldn't disagree with you on Connaught and Ulster, Munster and Leinster are hugely funded in comparison. I can see no reason why say Kerry get so much more money then say Mayo, Donegal or Down, counties of a similar make up. Your own county can feel rightly aggrieved.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 04/02/2018 19:17:09    2073992

Link

Replying To Uimhir.a.3.:  "Your harping on all the time here about the development money despite several journalists dissecting the figures this week & showing that even excluding that figure, it shows that Dublin are grossly overfunded in comparison to everyone else. Your constant defence of this is like the way Paraic Duffy dismisses any criticism of it, have you a vested interest or is it that you don't like been proven wrong. Your other argument about comparing like for like such as population also doesn't stack up, Dublin receive greater funding that the rest of the entire Leinster province which has a greater combined population, similarly when you contrast the combined population of Munster, also Ulster & though the most under deprived province Connacht has a combined population of less than half that of Dublin it gets a much smaller slice of the pie than Dublin despite all the disadvantages it faces. No cognisance is taken either of the fact of Dublin's greater ability to access sponsorship & the money that turns over in comparison to all others, so allied with the inequality of funding from the GAA, it's a massive scandal & all Paraic Duffy does is dismiss any arguments on it."
I know the sources these guys are using.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.sportsjoe.ie/amp/gaa/dublin-receive-e15-million-more-than-any-other-county-in-games-development-grants-over-the-last-decade-149534

They do not delve beneath the headline figures.

It's all a load of crap these arguments. They're based on SportsJoe and Balls.ie articles that don't go into the details of the money. They break things down by county but don't bother describing that they're not comparing like for like.

I really hate the insinuations that these articles make. There's the cliche of the grab all association that others propagate. It pisses me off when Gaelic people then play into the hands of these narratives.

The GAA do so much work at a grassroots level across the country. It pisses me off when people use half truths to put their efforts down.

That's my ulterior motive. That I know the GAA, I know the good work that gets done and I hate people shitting on it when they haven't a clue what they're talking about.

It all comes from a place of petty tribalism.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4203 - 04/02/2018 22:22:44    2074106

Link

The Username is by far one of the most balanced Dublin posters on here. He contends funding hasn't played that big a part in Dublin's upturn in form, I disagree with him but at least you will get a sound balanced debate with him. Interesting to see what these new funding distributions brings in the next few years but most of us I think the horse is bolted now anyway and Dublin both on and off the pitch are gone way ahead. No point in going around in circles on here, we all have our stated positions well marked out and I don't think any of us are open to persuasion. Looking forward to more exchanges with Username and people like him on here as the year developes.

kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 854 - 04/02/2018 22:26:03    2074107

Link

Replying To kildare73:  "Wouldn't agree with that mate. Cork City are league of Ireland champions. Before that Dundalk dominated. Dublin hurling isn't dominating life either. Leinster rugby isn't Dublin dominated either. And I would like to know is every county in the country funded for the children you talked about by the GAA to the same level? I don't honestly know the answer."
Per participant they are and it will be even more so from this year - Dublin are hoping to be self-financing without any HQ involvement.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4895 - 05/02/2018 10:42:33    2074188

Link

How come no one puts up a figure about how much money Dublin generate for the GAA?

Everything you read or hear is only about Dublin taking money! Are we sure they take more than they generate? If yes show me the numbers

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 05/02/2018 10:57:57    2074193

Link

Replying To arock:  "Per participant they are and it will be even more so from this year - Dublin are hoping to be self-financing without any HQ involvement."
This is why i think the GAA are making a mistake reducing Dublins games development funding, if Dublin realise its sponsorship, commercial and fundraising potential and become self sustaining with no financial boundires or limits. It certainly has the market and the product to do it. Its also the logical thing for Dublin to do to fill the hole in their finance. Last year alone they had three very marketable All Ireland winning teams and if they were to capatalise on the commercialality, marketability and fundraising potential of any of them it would be a money spinner.

What that would mean for the rest of the GAA is questionable, some may say great more for us, but letting the tiger of the leash really may make Dublin a completely different animal in sporting terms enabled by their money making potential.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 05/02/2018 11:30:04    2074206

Link

Replying To Whammo86:  "I know the sources these guys are using.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.sportsjoe.ie/amp/gaa/dublin-receive-e15-million-more-than-any-other-county-in-games-development-grants-over-the-last-decade-149534

They do not delve beneath the headline figures.

It's all a load of crap these arguments. They're based on SportsJoe and Balls.ie articles that don't go into the details of the money. They break things down by county but don't bother describing that they're not comparing like for like.

I really hate the insinuations that these articles make. There's the cliche of the grab all association that others propagate. It pisses me off when Gaelic people then play into the hands of these narratives.

The GAA do so much work at a grassroots level across the country. It pisses me off when people use half truths to put their efforts down.

That's my ulterior motive. That I know the GAA, I know the good work that gets done and I hate people shitting on it when they haven't a clue what they're talking about.

It all comes from a place of petty tribalism."
The source of the figures was the GAA's own financial report issued by Tom Gill who even acknowledged that the GAA are trying to address the imbalance, the source is not what you insinuated, once again you distort reality. You are the one not comparing like for like, what other county can create the off the field revenue turn over Dublin do, none. No one is denying Dublin their share but there has to be equity, at present its a million miles from been equitable. No where in this thread did I read anyone labelling the GAA as grab all association, only you insinuating once more that this is what is been said, more deflection. There are many of us on here who have for decades contributed at grassroots which were the bedrock, but it doesn't mean we have to remain silent when we see something wrong, we saw what happened when the grassroots of another Irish institution stayed silent. Critical analysis is an important factor of business, life, sporting organisations otherwise people take advantage if no one calls them to task. To label any analysis here as shitting on the GAA is disgraceful & putting others points down as petty tribalism smacks of dictatorship, cant ever be wrong, always right. Your opinion is yours but it doesn't have to be taken by everyone else here as the dictat. Many of us are speaking out about Dublin's funding & the commercialisation of the GAA which we are entitled to do,

Uimhir.a.3. (Galway) - Posts: 409 - 05/02/2018 21:35:33    2074452

Link