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This is something I have been thinking about lately. I would be interested in hearing what people say. Particularly from the below named counties.
It's seems to me there is a pile of strong gaelic football counties going through a bad time. In the 90s and early 00s Cork Meath Derry Down Kildare Galway Laois Westmeath Armagh Offaly all had great teams. 20 years later the above have almost reached an All time low. What has gone wrong. For example what has gone wrong in Derry or Down. Why have they declined? . Why are so many Strong counties in the state they are in?. And why do the GAA not even care?. Below I will go through the counties. I might be wrong how low they have dropped but overall my general point has a truth to it. Am I on a nostalgia trip to 90s. Or is there a problem. I will give my reasons why I think Meath have declined. But what has happened to Armagh or Laois. What has happened on the ground in those counties. I hope I don't degrade any counties below. But I belive there is something wrong in so strong football counties.
1 Meath are going trough their worst decade since 1920s. Record defeat to Dublin in 2014. Knocked out of the championship 5 years in a row to Ulster opposition. First time loses to Westmeath Tyrone and Armagh in the championship. Division 2 permanently and knocked out of the championship in mid July yearly. Meath have never had such a poor period since they emerged on the national scene in the 30s.
2 Down is another powerhouse football county. But Down have not won an Ulster title in nearly quater of a century ( 24 years). They went on a 15 game losing streak in the last 12 months. And for periods in the last decade only Antrim were lower in Ulster. I know Down had bad periods in the 70s and 80s. But overall so far since 2010 this has been one of Downs worst periods since they emerged on the scene in the 1960s.
3 Cork. Since 2010 Cork have been in decline. In my lifetime 30 years of gaelic football, I have never seen Cork football so low. I cannot think any year in the last 50 years where Cork were not in the top 5 or 6 teams in the country. A division 1 county. It is the first time in 50 years that Cork play kerry in champuonship and there is very little hope of a Cork win. Tipp defeated Cork in the chamouinship recently, something that hasn't happened since 1950s. When Clare and Tipp play Cork now most people would not be surprised if Tipp or Clare won. I think you could say Cork football at the moment could be at its lowest since late 1950s early 1960s.
4 Galway another aristocrat of gaelic football. While Galway have some sucess recently and have potential the fact is Overall this has been a poor decade for Galway. No win in Croker in the championship in 16 years. If Galway do not reach an All Ireland final in the next 2 years. It will be the first decade since the foundation of the state that Galway have not reached a final. Bad defeats to Tipp and Roscommon in last two years. Galway overall have not been as low as they are in this decade since early 90s.
5 Derry. Derry were always strong in the 80s 90s and 00s. But are now in divsion 3. The last time Derry was as low as they are now could be 1960s. They had good teams in 70s and 80s. A great team in 90s. And where strong in the 00s
6 Armagh . Armagh are going to spend 3 of the last 4 years in div 3. When did that last happen to Armagh. Armagh had strong teams in the 70s 80s and 90s. And a great team in the 00s. This potentially has been Armaghs worst decade since 1960s.
7 Laois. Laois are a strong football county in divsion 4 . Laois had a very good team in the 80s. Lucky not to make the breakthrough. And an excellent team in the 00s. But since Laois have fallen. This decade has being Laois worst since 1970s.
8 Offaly. Offaly won 3 All Irelands in nearly ten years between 1971 to 1982. Since that Offaly with the exception of 1997 98 have been in divsion 3 or 4. Offaly had a very good team in the 60s reaching All Ireland finals. A great team in the 70s. A brillant team in the 80s. And had a very exciting team in 90s. In the 00s They were unsucessful but they did reach a leinster final. If Offaly don't reach a leinster final in the next two years. It would be the first time since the 50s.It would be their worst decade since 1950s when they emerged on the national scene.
9 Kildare. Kildare are a strong gaelic football county. While they improved last year and have potential. Both overall this had one of their poorest decades recently. It has been their worst period since Mick O arrived on the scene in the early 90s. 1 leinster final appearance in this decade . Record defeats to Kerry and Dublin. And a very bad record in Croker. 5 loses in the last 2 year's. Overall probaly along with the 80s this is Kildare worst decade in the last 60 or 70 years so far.
10 Louth and Westmeath . Louth had a strong team in the 90ss. In any other era would have won leinster title. They reached 6 leinster semi final in a row in the 90s. Since 2010 they have dropped to divsion 3 and 4. Westmeath had a great period of sucess in late 90s and early 00s. They won All Ireland minor title in late 90s. And won leinster title in early 00s. Westmeath are now in divsion 4.
So why are so many great and strong counties in such a bad state? From the high of the 90s and early 00s to the low of this decade. Do the GAA even care?.
Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1067 - 26/01/2018 22:43:30
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Dublin I'd say. :D
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 26/01/2018 23:01:37
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Replying To Furlong1949: "This is something I have been thinking about lately. I would be interested in hearing what people say. Particularly from the below named counties.
It's seems to me there is a pile of strong gaelic football counties going through a bad time. In the 90s and early 00s Cork Meath Derry Down Kildare Galway Laois Westmeath Armagh Offaly all had great teams. 20 years later the above have almost reached an All time low. What has gone wrong. For example what has gone wrong in Derry or Down. Why have they declined? . Why are so many Strong counties in the state they are in?. And why do the GAA not even care?. Below I will go through the counties. I might be wrong how low they have dropped but overall my general point has a truth to it. Am I on a nostalgia trip to 90s. Or is there a problem. I will give my reasons why I think Meath have declined. But what has happened to Armagh or Laois. What has happened on the ground in those counties. I hope I don't degrade any counties below. But I belive there is something wrong in so strong football counties.
1 Meath are going trough their worst decade since 1920s. Record defeat to Dublin in 2014. Knocked out of the championship 5 years in a row to Ulster opposition. First time loses to Westmeath Tyrone and Armagh in the championship. Division 2 permanently and knocked out of the championship in mid July yearly. Meath have never had such a poor period since they emerged on the national scene in the 30s.
2 Down is another powerhouse football county. But Down have not won an Ulster title in nearly quater of a century ( 24 years). They went on a 15 game losing streak in the last 12 months. And for periods in the last decade only Antrim were lower in Ulster. I know Down had bad periods in the 70s and 80s. But overall so far since 2010 this has been one of Downs worst periods since they emerged on the scene in the 1960s.
3 Cork. Since 2010 Cork have been in decline. In my lifetime 30 years of gaelic football, I have never seen Cork football so low. I cannot think any year in the last 50 years where Cork were not in the top 5 or 6 teams in the country. A division 1 county. It is the first time in 50 years that Cork play kerry in champuonship and there is very little hope of a Cork win. Tipp defeated Cork in the chamouinship recently, something that hasn't happened since 1950s. When Clare and Tipp play Cork now most people would not be surprised if Tipp or Clare won. I think you could say Cork football at the moment could be at its lowest since late 1950s early 1960s.
4 Galway another aristocrat of gaelic football. While Galway have some sucess recently and have potential the fact is Overall this has been a poor decade for Galway. No win in Croker in the championship in 16 years. If Galway do not reach an All Ireland final in the next 2 years. It will be the first decade since the foundation of the state that Galway have not reached a final. Bad defeats to Tipp and Roscommon in last two years. Galway overall have not been as low as they are in this decade since early 90s.
5 Derry. Derry were always strong in the 80s 90s and 00s. But are now in divsion 3. The last time Derry was as low as they are now could be 1960s. They had good teams in 70s and 80s. A great team in 90s. And where strong in the 00s
6 Armagh . Armagh are going to spend 3 of the last 4 years in div 3. When did that last happen to Armagh. Armagh had strong teams in the 70s 80s and 90s. And a great team in the 00s. This potentially has been Armaghs worst decade since 1960s.
7 Laois. Laois are a strong football county in divsion 4 . Laois had a very good team in the 80s. Lucky not to make the breakthrough. And an excellent team in the 00s. But since Laois have fallen. This decade has being Laois worst since 1970s.
8 Offaly. Offaly won 3 All Irelands in nearly ten years between 1971 to 1982. Since that Offaly with the exception of 1997 98 have been in divsion 3 or 4. Offaly had a very good team in the 60s reaching All Ireland finals. A great team in the 70s. A brillant team in the 80s. And had a very exciting team in 90s. In the 00s They were unsucessful but they did reach a leinster final. If Offaly don't reach a leinster final in the next two years. It would be the first time since the 50s.It would be their worst decade since 1950s when they emerged on the national scene.
9 Kildare. Kildare are a strong gaelic football county. While they improved last year and have potential. Both overall this had one of their poorest decades recently. It has been their worst period since Mick O arrived on the scene in the early 90s. 1 leinster final appearance in this decade . Record defeats to Kerry and Dublin. And a very bad record in Croker. 5 loses in the last 2 year's. Overall probaly along with the 80s this is Kildare worst decade in the last 60 or 70 years so far.
10 Louth and Westmeath . Louth had a strong team in the 90ss. In any other era would have won leinster title. They reached 6 leinster semi final in a row in the 90s. Since 2010 they have dropped to divsion 3 and 4. Westmeath had a great period of sucess in late 90s and early 00s. They won All Ireland minor title in late 90s. And won leinster title in early 00s. Westmeath are now in divsion 4.
So why are so many great and strong counties in such a bad state? From the high of the 90s and early 00s to the low of this decade. Do the GAA even care?." Furlong as you said Louth had a strong team in the nineties. They reached six Leinster semi-finals in that decade. They lost to Laois after a replay in 1991. That was the match with the infamous brawl. Louth lost to the Dubs in 1992, 1994 and 1996. In 1997 Offaly beat Louth and in 1998 Meath beat the Wee men. Success breeds success and for Louth the last time that they won a senior All Ireland or a Leinster title was 1957, the last minor Leinster was 1953 and last minor All Ireland was 1940. The last U21 Leinster title was 1981. They have never won an U21 All Ireland title. In the county itself you get this Dundalk/North Louth v Drogheda/South Louth. When you look at the great 1957 Louth team most of the players came from the mid-Louth area.
OLLIE (Louth) - Posts: 12224 - 26/01/2018 23:33:12
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It's not that hard to explain. Every county goes through peaks and troughs, some last longer than others and it's been that way over the decades. Even Dublin have had their lean periods but they are usually shorter lasting than most. Dominant teams usually get old together and you lose quiet a few players over a year a couple of years, hence competitiveness is lost for a period of time.
kildare73 (Kildare) - Posts: 854 - 26/01/2018 23:38:24
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Why should the GAA authorities care one way or another?
Teams come & go, it's the nature of things & while some are suffering they will be back while others who were unfashionable in the past have their moment in the sun.
Yes its true that Dublin, Kerry, & Mayo are the big dogs at the moment but there is always a Donegal, Tyrone, Monaghan ready to come along & elbow their way to the top table.
Nothing is ever perfect, it's the way of things but I am looking forward to the coming year.
MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 27/01/2018 01:14:09
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Replying To Furlong1949: "This is something I have been thinking about lately. I would be interested in hearing what people say. Particularly from the below named counties.
It's seems to me there is a pile of strong gaelic football counties going through a bad time. In the 90s and early 00s Cork Meath Derry Down Kildare Galway Laois Westmeath Armagh Offaly all had great teams. 20 years later the above have almost reached an All time low. What has gone wrong. For example what has gone wrong in Derry or Down. Why have they declined? . Why are so many Strong counties in the state they are in?. And why do the GAA not even care?. Below I will go through the counties. I might be wrong how low they have dropped but overall my general point has a truth to it. Am I on a nostalgia trip to 90s. Or is there a problem. I will give my reasons why I think Meath have declined. But what has happened to Armagh or Laois. What has happened on the ground in those counties. I hope I don't degrade any counties below. But I belive there is something wrong in so strong football counties.
1 Meath are going trough their worst decade since 1920s. Record defeat to Dublin in 2014. Knocked out of the championship 5 years in a row to Ulster opposition. First time loses to Westmeath Tyrone and Armagh in the championship. Division 2 permanently and knocked out of the championship in mid July yearly. Meath have never had such a poor period since they emerged on the national scene in the 30s.
2 Down is another powerhouse football county. But Down have not won an Ulster title in nearly quater of a century ( 24 years). They went on a 15 game losing streak in the last 12 months. And for periods in the last decade only Antrim were lower in Ulster. I know Down had bad periods in the 70s and 80s. But overall so far since 2010 this has been one of Downs worst periods since they emerged on the scene in the 1960s.
3 Cork. Since 2010 Cork have been in decline. In my lifetime 30 years of gaelic football, I have never seen Cork football so low. I cannot think any year in the last 50 years where Cork were not in the top 5 or 6 teams in the country. A division 1 county. It is the first time in 50 years that Cork play kerry in champuonship and there is very little hope of a Cork win. Tipp defeated Cork in the chamouinship recently, something that hasn't happened since 1950s. When Clare and Tipp play Cork now most people would not be surprised if Tipp or Clare won. I think you could say Cork football at the moment could be at its lowest since late 1950s early 1960s.
4 Galway another aristocrat of gaelic football. While Galway have some sucess recently and have potential the fact is Overall this has been a poor decade for Galway. No win in Croker in the championship in 16 years. If Galway do not reach an All Ireland final in the next 2 years. It will be the first decade since the foundation of the state that Galway have not reached a final. Bad defeats to Tipp and Roscommon in last two years. Galway overall have not been as low as they are in this decade since early 90s.
5 Derry. Derry were always strong in the 80s 90s and 00s. But are now in divsion 3. The last time Derry was as low as they are now could be 1960s. They had good teams in 70s and 80s. A great team in 90s. And where strong in the 00s
6 Armagh . Armagh are going to spend 3 of the last 4 years in div 3. When did that last happen to Armagh. Armagh had strong teams in the 70s 80s and 90s. And a great team in the 00s. This potentially has been Armaghs worst decade since 1960s.
7 Laois. Laois are a strong football county in divsion 4 . Laois had a very good team in the 80s. Lucky not to make the breakthrough. And an excellent team in the 00s. But since Laois have fallen. This decade has being Laois worst since 1970s.
8 Offaly. Offaly won 3 All Irelands in nearly ten years between 1971 to 1982. Since that Offaly with the exception of 1997 98 have been in divsion 3 or 4. Offaly had a very good team in the 60s reaching All Ireland finals. A great team in the 70s. A brillant team in the 80s. And had a very exciting team in 90s. In the 00s They were unsucessful but they did reach a leinster final. If Offaly don't reach a leinster final in the next two years. It would be the first time since the 50s.It would be their worst decade since 1950s when they emerged on the national scene.
9 Kildare. Kildare are a strong gaelic football county. While they improved last year and have potential. Both overall this had one of their poorest decades recently. It has been their worst period since Mick O arrived on the scene in the early 90s. 1 leinster final appearance in this decade . Record defeats to Kerry and Dublin. And a very bad record in Croker. 5 loses in the last 2 year's. Overall probaly along with the 80s this is Kildare worst decade in the last 60 or 70 years so far.
10 Louth and Westmeath . Louth had a strong team in the 90ss. In any other era would have won leinster title. They reached 6 leinster semi final in a row in the 90s. Since 2010 they have dropped to divsion 3 and 4. Westmeath had a great period of sucess in late 90s and early 00s. They won All Ireland minor title in late 90s. And won leinster title in early 00s. Westmeath are now in divsion 4.
So why are so many great and strong counties in such a bad state? From the high of the 90s and early 00s to the low of this decade. Do the GAA even care?." Interesting point you made Furlong about my own county making an All-Ireland in every decade. Something I hadn't thought of..
If the truth be told, we're actually on an upward curve now after 15 years or so of pain. That interesting statistic has given me hope- that when we're good, we're VERY VERY GOOD...
streaker (Galway) - Posts: 497 - 27/01/2018 01:15:02
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Replying To Furlong1949: "This is something I have been thinking about lately. I would be interested in hearing what people say. Particularly from the below named counties.
It's seems to me there is a pile of strong gaelic football counties going through a bad time. In the 90s and early 00s Cork Meath Derry Down Kildare Galway Laois Westmeath Armagh Offaly all had great teams. 20 years later the above have almost reached an All time low. What has gone wrong. For example what has gone wrong in Derry or Down. Why have they declined? . Why are so many Strong counties in the state they are in?. And why do the GAA not even care?. Below I will go through the counties. I might be wrong how low they have dropped but overall my general point has a truth to it. Am I on a nostalgia trip to 90s. Or is there a problem. I will give my reasons why I think Meath have declined. But what has happened to Armagh or Laois. What has happened on the ground in those counties. I hope I don't degrade any counties below. But I belive there is something wrong in so strong football counties.
1 Meath are going trough their worst decade since 1920s. Record defeat to Dublin in 2014. Knocked out of the championship 5 years in a row to Ulster opposition. First time loses to Westmeath Tyrone and Armagh in the championship. Division 2 permanently and knocked out of the championship in mid July yearly. Meath have never had such a poor period since they emerged on the national scene in the 30s.
2 Down is another powerhouse football county. But Down have not won an Ulster title in nearly quater of a century ( 24 years). They went on a 15 game losing streak in the last 12 months. And for periods in the last decade only Antrim were lower in Ulster. I know Down had bad periods in the 70s and 80s. But overall so far since 2010 this has been one of Downs worst periods since they emerged on the scene in the 1960s.
3 Cork. Since 2010 Cork have been in decline. In my lifetime 30 years of gaelic football, I have never seen Cork football so low. I cannot think any year in the last 50 years where Cork were not in the top 5 or 6 teams in the country. A division 1 county. It is the first time in 50 years that Cork play kerry in champuonship and there is very little hope of a Cork win. Tipp defeated Cork in the chamouinship recently, something that hasn't happened since 1950s. When Clare and Tipp play Cork now most people would not be surprised if Tipp or Clare won. I think you could say Cork football at the moment could be at its lowest since late 1950s early 1960s.
4 Galway another aristocrat of gaelic football. While Galway have some sucess recently and have potential the fact is Overall this has been a poor decade for Galway. No win in Croker in the championship in 16 years. If Galway do not reach an All Ireland final in the next 2 years. It will be the first decade since the foundation of the state that Galway have not reached a final. Bad defeats to Tipp and Roscommon in last two years. Galway overall have not been as low as they are in this decade since early 90s.
5 Derry. Derry were always strong in the 80s 90s and 00s. But are now in divsion 3. The last time Derry was as low as they are now could be 1960s. They had good teams in 70s and 80s. A great team in 90s. And where strong in the 00s
6 Armagh . Armagh are going to spend 3 of the last 4 years in div 3. When did that last happen to Armagh. Armagh had strong teams in the 70s 80s and 90s. And a great team in the 00s. This potentially has been Armaghs worst decade since 1960s.
7 Laois. Laois are a strong football county in divsion 4 . Laois had a very good team in the 80s. Lucky not to make the breakthrough. And an excellent team in the 00s. But since Laois have fallen. This decade has being Laois worst since 1970s.
8 Offaly. Offaly won 3 All Irelands in nearly ten years between 1971 to 1982. Since that Offaly with the exception of 1997 98 have been in divsion 3 or 4. Offaly had a very good team in the 60s reaching All Ireland finals. A great team in the 70s. A brillant team in the 80s. And had a very exciting team in 90s. In the 00s They were unsucessful but they did reach a leinster final. If Offaly don't reach a leinster final in the next two years. It would be the first time since the 50s.It would be their worst decade since 1950s when they emerged on the national scene.
9 Kildare. Kildare are a strong gaelic football county. While they improved last year and have potential. Both overall this had one of their poorest decades recently. It has been their worst period since Mick O arrived on the scene in the early 90s. 1 leinster final appearance in this decade . Record defeats to Kerry and Dublin. And a very bad record in Croker. 5 loses in the last 2 year's. Overall probaly along with the 80s this is Kildare worst decade in the last 60 or 70 years so far.
10 Louth and Westmeath . Louth had a strong team in the 90ss. In any other era would have won leinster title. They reached 6 leinster semi final in a row in the 90s. Since 2010 they have dropped to divsion 3 and 4. Westmeath had a great period of sucess in late 90s and early 00s. They won All Ireland minor title in late 90s. And won leinster title in early 00s. Westmeath are now in divsion 4.
So why are so many great and strong counties in such a bad state? From the high of the 90s and early 00s to the low of this decade. Do the GAA even care?." Good post. Unfortunately, the majority of All Irelands are held by 2 counties...Kerry and Dublin.
Other counties like Cork and Galway appear periodically, and a win by Donegal, Tyrone, Down or Armagh is a rarity. The 2 traditional football counties Mayo and Cavan have suffered a famine in the last 50 years....but we all know the Mayo story.
I think statistics don't lie, and Dublin and Kerry will continue to divvy up the spoils.
Rockies (Cork) - Posts: 947 - 27/01/2018 01:44:21
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Replying To kildare73: "It's not that hard to explain. Every county goes through peaks and troughs, some last longer than others and it's been that way over the decades. Even Dublin have had their lean periods but they are usually shorter lasting than most. Dominant teams usually get old together and you lose quiet a few players over a year a couple of years, hence competitiveness is lost for a period of time." You should be able to stay competitive though if your a serious football county and the proper structures in place. Kildare and Meath have massive populations for example.
My own county for example are 20 consecutive years in division 1. We all know the failure to land sam still hangs over us but we keep coming back. This Mayo team won't last forever but since 1989 we have contested 9 finals not including replays which means just under a THIRD of all senior finals have involved Mayo and all on a population of just over 130,000.
Now a friend of mine from another county reckons we are unique in that the county is so Gaelic Football crazy that we can sustain and be competitive but it's not that simple is it?
Surly the likes of Kildare and Meath should with the proper planning be more successful?
yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11231 - 27/01/2018 07:06:13
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Happens all teams.
Where were mayo in 60,70s,80s (apart from 89)
Dublin were gone for about 15 years after 95
The only real somewhat consistent team since the beginning of the gaa is Kerry. Everyone else goes through phases.
GameOfTyrones (Tyrone) - Posts: 469 - 27/01/2018 08:14:39
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Replying To yew_tree: "You should be able to stay competitive though if your a serious football county and the proper structures in place. Kildare and Meath have massive populations for example.
My own county for example are 20 consecutive years in division 1. We all know the failure to land sam still hangs over us but we keep coming back. This Mayo team won't last forever but since 1989 we have contested 9 finals not including replays which means just under a THIRD of all senior finals have involved Mayo and all on a population of just over 130,000.
Now a friend of mine from another county reckons we are unique in that the county is so Gaelic Football crazy that we can sustain and be competitive but it's not that simple is it?
Surly the likes of Kildare and Meath should with the proper planning be more successful?" What happened in Meath was if you like to call it a perfect storm, under Boylan the Meath cb never put proper structure in place at underage level, they just thought we had a god given right to produce top players and more importantly keep them.
Then in the 00s things began to change with the introduction of puke football as Spillane called it, Meath refused to budge a inch on the traditional way as to hand pass a ball or not go man to man was seen as treason the highest, we had a good team from 07 to 10 but again circumstances railed against us, some within county then became apologists, for what happened in 10, a error by a referee, followed up by inaction by gaa, left many good footballers saying to hell with this, we then removed Eamonn O'Brien the best manager we had since sean , this after he had managed to hammer dubs, (remember 5 past cluxton) then we went outside county, the apathy to banty within Meath was a low point for the county, then we decided to hand someone with a extremely nice personality the job , but he was completely out of his depth, he went in and immediately got rid of established players who were at their peak or just about to reach it and instead set up a team of speedsters but unfortunately not many could put the ball over the bar, after so many years chopping and changing management the theme became stability, but the problem was the stable man in charge wasn't a inter county manager, it was during this time that we had our first losses to Tyrone Armagh and worst of all westmeath. We were regularly up 7/8 points at halftime only to totally collapse in second half due to lack of fitness and no resemblance of a plan b.
Now thankfully things have changed, we have a proven management team, most of who have been there done that, fitness levels are at the highest ever, he is in year 2 and is moulding the team into his own vision. Last year was always going to be hit and miss. But many of this current Meath team have beaten Mayo Tyrone and reached all ire minor final under Andy mcenetee. It may take him another few years but we are on right track and will be very competitive within next few years. Once cb keep out of it and leave him there.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 27/01/2018 09:26:45
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Very good and insightful post Furlong1949. As regards my own county, outside of the Micko and McGeeney eras, Kildare have had some very good players and good teams. At times though, throughout the years, Kildare have been dogged by the perception - not unfairly I might add - that they are too nice. They like(d) to play nice football but didn't want to have to endure any rough stuff in the process. The mantra of many managers probably was, and still is "hit them up lads and we'll win this one". The team of the 90's was a "hard team" in the sense that it stood up to, and was able to beat both Dublin and Meath.
The present team is about to enter a crucial stage of it's development after a relatively good year last season. Many are the product of recent underage success, albeit in Leinster, not on the All-Ireland stage. Return to Division 1 is vital for further development. Lesson no 1 begins tonight in Croke Park.
lilywhite1 (Kildare) - Posts: 2990 - 27/01/2018 12:16:41
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Replying To GameOfTyrones: "Happens all teams.
Where were mayo in 60,70s,80s (apart from 89)
Dublin were gone for about 15 years after 95
The only real somewhat consistent team since the beginning of the gaa is Kerry. Everyone else goes through phases." Even then Kerry went through a bad patch for most of the 90's
why (Kildare) - Posts: 142 - 27/01/2018 14:52:38
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Replying To why: "Even then Kerry went through a bad patch for most of the 90's" Yes and they did not win their first All Ireland until 1903, by which time Limerick and Tipp had won 2 each and Cork had won one. We should also remember that they had won a Hurling title twelve years earlier in 1891, so might just as easily have grown powerful in the other code.
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4321 - 27/01/2018 15:10:18
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In terms of Galway, well we went from 1966 to 1998 with nothing but a National League title win over Ros. Some notable final losses in early 70's and the ugly "83. Despite the 01 win we did not evolve with the new game and essentially lost everything in the back door after that. Now, we are coming again, it will be hard in division one but hope to find 6 or 7 points on the table by the end of the campaign, might come down to the Newbridge game in round 7, but look delighted to be back in division one and competing. Not in decline no matter what we will learn tomorrow, optimistic that by Easter we are rising.
suckvalleypaddy (Galway) - Posts: 1669 - 27/01/2018 15:28:58
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Thanks for all the responses. A few points
1 Everything does go in cycles. Up and down. With the exception of Dublin and kerry every other county sucess comes more in cycles. But I think its quite extreme this cycle. In that so many of these counties reached all time highs 15 or 20 years and now are having all time lows. Simply put for me what is surprising so many strong counties have hit basically an all time low. And that the period of decline has been so long.
Also you have the third most successful county(Galway) joint 4th ( Meath Cork) and 6th ( Down) have all bottomed out together. So many counties are going through all time low periods collectively. That they are going through a period that they have had not for generations or that they havent had since before their county emerged as sucessful.
Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1067 - 27/01/2018 19:53:50
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So many times you hear this arguement that Meath and kildare should be doing better becuase of population growth. This is not correct. Its a GAA myth. Counties that have population growth around Dublin does not lead to sucess. One example and four words shows its doesnt : the county of Wicklow
The growth in population has had an negative effect. The counties identity is not as strong. And the people who have moved to the county either have no interest in Meath GAA as a whole or basically Dublin supporters who raise their kids to support and play for Dublin. People saying Kildare and Meath should be doing better with this population growth, it actually is the opposite effect on the ground. It has had a negative impact on football in both counties.
If populatuon growth led to football sucess. Why have Wicklow Louth and Antrim been largely unsucessful in the last 70 years?. All have big populations. Take Wicklow a big population. A strong club scene. Passionate gaa people. Yet have never won a leinster title and only won for the first time in Croker in the last 12 years. If population growth and a big population was the key to football sucess surely Wicklow blows that arguement out of the water. I know no team has won Sam with Pop below 10000 since Offaly in 82. So population is important. But some of the evidence is contradictory. Wicklow Meath Kildare and Louth have shown population growth on Dublins border does not lead to sucess for those bordering counties. Meath actually could become a football nursery for Dublin football. But the GAA don't seem to care. Look how they turn a blind eye to Antrim and Wicklows lack of sucess. I know Antrim half the population are not going to play GAA. But still a county like Antrim who was one of the early giants of Ulster football its lack of sucess is disappointing.
In Meath there has been massive change in Meath population. Which socially econmically and culturally has been great for Meath. But overall the movement of Dubs to Meath has had a negative impact on Meath GAA. So many of the Dublin parents even though their kids go to Meath schools and play with Meath clubs they make sure their kids support Dublin and want to play for Dublin. That's their right. We live in a free country In the latest census it was revealed that In Donegal 10% of the people in Donegal are not from Donegal. In Cork 15% of the people in Cork are not from Cork. In Meath 66% of the people in Meath are not from Meath.
Most are Dubs who either have no interest in gaa . The Dublin GAA followers in Meath would include many Dublin parents who grew up in 80s and 90s and the idea of their offspring supporting Meath ( the county of Mick Lyons and Graham Geraghty) is not going to happen. This is an issue. Meath and Kildare becoming football nursery's for Dublin. But sure the GAA don't care.
There has been a couple example of how migration/ population can effect GAA in a county. There is negative and positive.
Meath and Kildare are current negative. There is many examples now of players in Meath with players playing with Meaths schools and Meath clubs and then switching to Dublin at adult level. This is a growing thread and will continue. It more then likely will grow and grow as a feature of Meath GAA. Meath and Kildare football nursery's for Dublin is a growing features on the ground in gaa circles in both counties.
I know at least 4 Dublin parents in Meath. Children playing in Meath clubs. And their fathers told me. They will never support Meath. Always Dublin. And would never play for Meath. And two told me they would sure their kids will hate Meath football as much as he does himself. No problem. Nothing wrong with that. Free country.Those parents viewpoint would be the majority viewpoint.
A positive example of migration is the current Dublin team. So many of the current Dublin have country parents. Many have Donegal parents . What has happened is there was migration from rural Ireland in the 60s 70s 80s to Dublin. The current players parents came up from the country and passed their love of GAA onto their kids. They settled in suburbia middle class Dublin. Children went to college. And instead of turning to rugby they turned to GAA. Look how Dalkey won All.Irelans hurling club title. That is unimaginable 30 years ago. Bonos club gaa champions. So Dublin have benefited greatly from this.
People thought the migration to Meath from the west helped Meath become a football.sucess. This is not really true. Because the land commission, the moment the people from the west migrates to Meath and Kildare was happening in the 30s 40s 50s and 60s. At the samw time Meath won All Ireland in the 40s 50s and 60s. So that migration had no impact on that sucess. It was more the teams of the 80s and 90s had west of Ireland parents eg Robbie O Malley Mayo. But again it wasn't the real reason for Meaths sucess because Kildare also had massive migration from the west . There is a massive Galway community in Kildare. But Kildare had no sucess as Meath were enjoying huge sucess.
What the migration brought was a love of gaelic football. The west of Ireland is a true gaelic football heartlands. There is a bit of soccer rugby even hurling. But overall it is strong passionate gaelic football provience. Connacht people are passionate gaa followers . That love of gaelic football spread the gospel of football throughout parish's in Meath and Kildare.
Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1067 - 28/01/2018 05:00:47
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I know this is a bit off topic. But in the same kind of area. I was watching Irelands greatest moments sporting. They were looking at great GAA moments in 70s 80s and 90s. I was thinking in 20 years what would be the greatest moments in gaa in this decade. There will be only one true great GAA like the moments in the past. That is Dublin winning the three in a row . If they win a 4 in a row or even 5 in a row that will be the great GAA moment of the decade. Donegal winning Sam was brillant and Monaghan winning the Ulster after 30 year break. But overall we don't get the great GAA moments anymore. Moments that captured the nations attention like Clare in 85 or Offaly stopping the 5 in a row in 82. If Mayo win the All Ireland in the next two years it would be one of the greatest GAA moments ever.
Look at 90s into late 00s great GAA moments in football
1 Cork clinching the double in 1990.
2 1991 Meath v Dublin fourth game
1991 Down winning All Ireland, first All Ireland for Down and a Ulster team in 23 years
3 1992 Clare beating Kerry in the Munster final. Clares first football munster title in decades.
1992 Donegal winning their first All Ireland
4 1993 Derry winning their first All Ireland
5 1994 Leitrim winning their first connacht title in near 70 years
6 1997 Cavan winning their first Ulster in nearly 30 years
7 1998 Kildare winning their first leinster title in nearly 40 years
1998 Galway being the first team from Connacht and Galway to win an All Ireland in 28 years
8 2002 Armagh win first All Ireland title ever
9 2003 Tyrone win first All Ireland ever
2003 Laois win first leinster title in over 45 years
10 2004 Westmeath win first ever leinster title.
They were great moments nearly every years where teams won their first All Ireland, or a football famine in a particular county ends. We don't get that anyone. We had 4 first time All Ireland winners in nearly 10 years. We haven't any since.
My favourites after Meath. Where Kildare in 98. The county went mental. Leitrim in 93 was a great GAA story especially when Declan D'Arcy lifted the cup with the last Leitrim winner. Donegal winning their first All Ireland . And Paudi O Se leading Westmeath to their first leinster title.
We have had some fine moment this decade. But in 20 or 30 years the standout moment in football has been Dublins three in a row.
I think maybe the GAA has become to slick almost to professional. Lost a bit of its amateur spirit . It the sky sports GAA now. I don't know. Maybe Im on a nostalgia trip.
Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1067 - 28/01/2018 05:07:53
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Replying To why: "Even then Kerry went through a bad patch for most of the 90's" True. But they didn't become risky useless just failed to reach a final until 97 from 86 out so but in Kerry standards that's useless. They just don't go out of fashion as much as others. The Brazil of gaa. Great teams come and go but they're always there or there abouts. Even this year they didn't win but still relevant . Dublin would be Germany. No idea who mayo would, England? Except better as they don't actually make finals. Holland maybe.
GameOfTyrones (Tyrone) - Posts: 469 - 28/01/2018 09:14:28
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commitment is now at a point where if a player doesnt see a tangible or achievable reward,they just dont bother.
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 28/01/2018 19:06:30
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Replying To perfect10: "commitment is now at a point where if a player doesnt see a tangible or achievable reward,they just dont bother." Fair point. Not all players like that I think but more than 20 years ago or even closer than that. The Celtic Tiger had a lot of hardworking parents doing everything for their kids and I think many of today's teenagers have less initiative and are a bit of a me generation than previous generations. I'm surely getting old saying something like that but I think there's a bit of truth in it.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7345 - 28/01/2018 23:47:18
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