Donegal Forum

U17s and U20s

(Oldest Posts First)

Any news on these squads , what are there chances of success in 2018

erneboys (Fermanagh) - 18/12/2017 18:38:52    2065539

Link

Replying To erneboys:  "Any news on these squads , what are there chances of success in 2018"
Not sure about the U-17's. I think last years U-16 team done reasonably well in their underage competitions. Last years U-17 team was very good but were denied many of their best players by the minor management meaning they got beat at the first hurdle by the eventual All Ireland winners Tyrone. By all accounts despite missing their best players they pushed Tyrone all the way. Like most underage teams alot can change in a few months.

The U-20 team could be very good. It is a particular sore point among some supporters that the rule changes have come in this year as Donegal would have a serious U-21 team who I think would have retained Ulster and possibly made a better mark outside of Ulster too. The problem that faces the U-20 team is that they could be missing some key players required by the senior squad as a result of these rule changes. Outside of Dublin it is a problem most counties are going to face and I just do not see what good it does especially for teams in Leinster trying to challenge the Dubs utter dominance. Even Kerry face the prospect of not having David Clifford who would be a massive loss for their chances.

At the moment the likes of Jason McGee and Niall O'Donnell could very well be with the seniors. The likes of Peader Mogan and Enda McCormick too. This would diminish Donegal's chances massively so it is a waiting game really to see who is available or not. I think Jason would be a big loss but manageable however if O'Donnell was missing I doubt Donegal could repeat their minor success at U-20. He is one of the best talents in the country at the grade and probably the best player in Ulster at U-20 level. Where Kerry could cope especially in Munster without Clifford, with Ulster being Ulster a Donegal team without O'Donnell pulling the strings would be quite diminished. My tip at the moment would be Galway to go all the way especially if Clifford is with the seniors. Connaught is not that strong this year so barring disaster I would see them in a quarter final. I think they will have most of the players who contested the minor final in 2016, a game in which they performed well and the scoreline flattered a Clifford inspired Kerry team.

panamasam (Australia) - 19/12/2017 12:51:18    2065591

Link

Replying To panamasam:  "Not sure about the U-17's. I think last years U-16 team done reasonably well in their underage competitions. Last years U-17 team was very good but were denied many of their best players by the minor management meaning they got beat at the first hurdle by the eventual All Ireland winners Tyrone. By all accounts despite missing their best players they pushed Tyrone all the way. Like most underage teams alot can change in a few months.

The U-20 team could be very good. It is a particular sore point among some supporters that the rule changes have come in this year as Donegal would have a serious U-21 team who I think would have retained Ulster and possibly made a better mark outside of Ulster too. The problem that faces the U-20 team is that they could be missing some key players required by the senior squad as a result of these rule changes. Outside of Dublin it is a problem most counties are going to face and I just do not see what good it does especially for teams in Leinster trying to challenge the Dubs utter dominance. Even Kerry face the prospect of not having David Clifford who would be a massive loss for their chances.

At the moment the likes of Jason McGee and Niall O'Donnell could very well be with the seniors. The likes of Peader Mogan and Enda McCormick too. This would diminish Donegal's chances massively so it is a waiting game really to see who is available or not. I think Jason would be a big loss but manageable however if O'Donnell was missing I doubt Donegal could repeat their minor success at U-20. He is one of the best talents in the country at the grade and probably the best player in Ulster at U-20 level. Where Kerry could cope especially in Munster without Clifford, with Ulster being Ulster a Donegal team without O'Donnell pulling the strings would be quite diminished. My tip at the moment would be Galway to go all the way especially if Clifford is with the seniors. Connaught is not that strong this year so barring disaster I would see them in a quarter final. I think they will have most of the players who contested the minor final in 2016, a game in which they performed well and the scoreline flattered a Clifford inspired Kerry team."
panamasam, agree with everything you say. If Niall O'Donnell and Jason McGee are with the under-20 team then they should win Ulster and challenge for the All-Ireland. Without them I still think we could compete in Ulster but couldn't see us challenging for an All-Ireland. We have some really talented players at under 20 level - PeadarMogan, Enda McCormick, Eoghan McGettigan, JD Boyle, Aidan McLaughlin & Gavin Mulreany looked a good keeper.

Green_Gold (Donegal) - 19/12/2017 14:31:55    2065605

Link

Replying To Green_Gold:  "panamasam, agree with everything you say. If Niall O'Donnell and Jason McGee are with the under-20 team then they should win Ulster and challenge for the All-Ireland. Without them I still think we could compete in Ulster but couldn't see us challenging for an All-Ireland. We have some really talented players at under 20 level - PeadarMogan, Enda McCormick, Eoghan McGettigan, JD Boyle, Aidan McLaughlin & Gavin Mulreany looked a good keeper."
Oh I think even with those 2 missing Donegal can be competitive in Ulster but they have a very tricky draw to contend with. Cavan will have a good team as they will have last years minors to call on. Derry played Donegal in the minor final 2 years ago and went one better last year so we know they will be strong too. Though I think losing McErlain will be a massive loss to them and they are likely to have some of their better players with the seniors as a result given work he has done with them. Then it will be Antrim most likely in a semi final who gave the minors their biggest test in Ulster with Niall O'Donnell inspiring a win that for the most part looked very unlikely. Like i said Donegal can still have serious aspirations of winning Ulster even maybe missing Jason but definitely not him and Niall especially Niall O'Donnell. Even with those 2 playing Ulster will be very tough especially with that draw and if they make it outside of Ulster they will need a much tighter defense than the minors of 2 years ago plus be more tactically aware and astute when facing teams who are like Galway were in 2016.

panamasam (Australia) - 19/12/2017 15:53:09    2065609

Link

I'm pleased that rules are in place preventing county senior players playing with the U20s.
We shouldn't lose sight of the fact that the U20 (or U21s as it was) team is only a development team, the purpose of which is to prepare players to play at senior level. And if a player is already playing at senior level, how exactly is playing a step below going to help his development? All it leads to is the young player having two managers to answer to, and two squads to train and play with. In recent years, I've seen established senior players playing in the Ulster U21 championship while barely recovered from injury. And for what?
It's intolerable, and I'm glad that established senior players won't have to waste their time with U20 football from here on in.
Of course, the absence of those senior players opens up extra spots within the U20 squad, both for players to make the starting XV and for new players to make the extended squad and benefit from the exposure to a county squad. So that's a big developmental bonus you are all overlooking as youse go on about winning Ulster.
Personally, I couldn't give a damn about winning provincial U20 competitions (or U17 for that matter). The success of under-age squads can be judged by how many cut it at senior level.

B.Bap (Donegal) - 20/12/2017 13:54:32    2065690

Link

Replying To B.Bap:  "I'm pleased that rules are in place preventing county senior players playing with the U20s.
We shouldn't lose sight of the fact that the U20 (or U21s as it was) team is only a development team, the purpose of which is to prepare players to play at senior level. And if a player is already playing at senior level, how exactly is playing a step below going to help his development? All it leads to is the young player having two managers to answer to, and two squads to train and play with. In recent years, I've seen established senior players playing in the Ulster U21 championship while barely recovered from injury. And for what?
It's intolerable, and I'm glad that established senior players won't have to waste their time with U20 football from here on in.
Of course, the absence of those senior players opens up extra spots within the U20 squad, both for players to make the starting XV and for new players to make the extended squad and benefit from the exposure to a county squad. So that's a big developmental bonus you are all overlooking as youse go on about winning Ulster.
Personally, I couldn't give a damn about winning provincial U20 competitions (or U17 for that matter). The success of under-age squads can be judged by how many cut it at senior level."
I wouldn't agree at all, the minor and under-21 championships were great tournaments in their own right and hopefully it is the same for u-17 and u-20 going forward. The more success you have at underage level the better it is for the senior team, success breads success. If you look at both our senior All-Ireland victories the backbone of those teams was the successful under-21 teams. Our best chance of success in 2018 is probably the under-20 side, why not give them the best chance possible to achieve this? A few years down the line and it will pay off with the seniors, people just need to be patient and think long term.

I agree with your point about players who have played on both the senior and under-21 teams previously, not good having to serve two managers. But if you take last year as an example, the under-21 players played in meaningless league games rather than being allowed to focus on the under-21 championship and it caught up with them in the end.

Green_Gold (Donegal) - 20/12/2017 14:31:12    2065696

Link

Replying To B.Bap:  "I'm pleased that rules are in place preventing county senior players playing with the U20s.
We shouldn't lose sight of the fact that the U20 (or U21s as it was) team is only a development team, the purpose of which is to prepare players to play at senior level. And if a player is already playing at senior level, how exactly is playing a step below going to help his development? All it leads to is the young player having two managers to answer to, and two squads to train and play with. In recent years, I've seen established senior players playing in the Ulster U21 championship while barely recovered from injury. And for what?
It's intolerable, and I'm glad that established senior players won't have to waste their time with U20 football from here on in.
Of course, the absence of those senior players opens up extra spots within the U20 squad, both for players to make the starting XV and for new players to make the extended squad and benefit from the exposure to a county squad. So that's a big developmental bonus you are all overlooking as youse go on about winning Ulster.
Personally, I couldn't give a damn about winning provincial U20 competitions (or U17 for that matter). The success of under-age squads can be judged by how many cut it at senior level."
If you are in a county that has not had much success at any level for a longtime minor and U-21 successes are immensely important. I also think they are vitally important to the players involved given how alot of them came up through the ranks through various development squads. Also the point about senior been the the all and end all is a very short sighted view. What chance have any of the counties in Leinster for example have of building anything sustainable to challenge the Dubs steamroller if their underage panels are denied their best players. It is a bad enough situation as it is in that province and it is only going to get worse if u ask me. Take counties like Laois and Westmeath who both won Leinster titles which were huge for both counties all built on underage success. Would that have been possible if the new rules were in place? Definitely not as both counties could not afford to not have that talent not at the disposal of the senior panel.

panamasam (Australia) - 20/12/2017 16:58:47    2065706

Link

Can these lads play in the national league though and still play U-20 championship? I didnt think this was the case until i read the article on Clifford. Kerry said they will play Clifford in the league and see how he goes before making a decision on whether he plays senior or U-20.

If that's the case then I would say we do the same with Niall O Donnell. Give him plenty of game time in the league, see how he plays, if it looks like he would be a definite option to the seniors come championship then keep him in senior squad.

HandballRef (Donegal) - 20/12/2017 18:26:31    2065717

Link

A few things to point out reading this thread.

1) U20 next year has no quarter finals its straight to the semi finals and i agree Galway will be hot favourites to win Connacht and along with Kerry the team to beat.

2) you can play U20s in NFL to see how they go before deciding which panel to play on

3) U20 next year is not a development grade as that stops at minor level, once you reach 18 you are deemed an adult and most of these players are already playing senior football with their clubs.

Personally i would have kept U21 football championship in place like hurling one was, it was arguably the most enjoyable grade of all to watch and games were well attended now its been down graded, pushed back to the height of the summer and where a lot of counties short on numbers will have no choice but to pick their best U20s on their senior panels meaning the U20 championship will be diluted.

The_analyser (Roscommon) - 21/12/2017 01:23:57    2065739

Link

Replying To HandballRef:  "Can these lads play in the national league though and still play U-20 championship? I didnt think this was the case until i read the article on Clifford. Kerry said they will play Clifford in the league and see how he goes before making a decision on whether he plays senior or U-20.

If that's the case then I would say we do the same with Niall O Donnell. Give him plenty of game time in the league, see how he plays, if it looks like he would be a definite option to the seniors come championship then keep him in senior squad."
This is the best solution I feel, let the likes of Niall O'Donnell and Jason McGee play with the seniors in the National League and then make a decision come championship time. If they are going to be certain starters for the seniors then fair enough that they play with them. If they aren't going to be starters on the senior team then let them play with the under-20's. The problem with this is that Gary McDaid wouldn't be sure who he is going to have available come championship time and also would have to train without them. But at least its a better compromise than having them as part of the senior panel but getting no game time and not being available for the under-20's.

Green_Gold (Donegal) - 21/12/2017 14:33:31    2065786

Link

Replying To Green_Gold:  "This is the best solution I feel, let the likes of Niall O'Donnell and Jason McGee play with the seniors in the National League and then make a decision come championship time. If they are going to be certain starters for the seniors then fair enough that they play with them. If they aren't going to be starters on the senior team then let them play with the under-20's. The problem with this is that Gary McDaid wouldn't be sure who he is going to have available come championship time and also would have to train without them. But at least its a better compromise than having them as part of the senior panel but getting no game time and not being available for the under-20's."
anything better than last year when you had the likes of Termons McCormick on the senior panel but never going to get a game and not allowed to play for the team he qualified for U21s

culmore (None) - 21/12/2017 15:25:22    2065793

Link

Is it true that the U-20 Championship games will not be played as curtain raisers to the Senior games even though it is the same draw.I thought there would be double headers as it was with the minors.Very disappointing.

gunman (Donegal) - 16/01/2018 11:21:06    2068664

Link

Replying To gunman:  "Is it true that the U-20 Championship games will not be played as curtain raisers to the Senior games even though it is the same draw.I thought there would be double headers as it was with the minors.Very disappointing."
I was under the impression that they were supposed to be. Bit of a shambles all around for me. How this nonsense got through congress I do not know.

panamasam (Australia) - 16/01/2018 15:28:25    2068715

Link

Bit of a shambles alright. How are under-20 teams supposed to prepare when they don't when they will be playing and who they will have in their panel from the senior team. It just seems like they put this through congress but gave no thought on how it would work.

Personally I think it would be a great idea for the under-20 games to be played before the senior games, nice reward for the players to play in front of a big crowd.

Green_Gold (Donegal) - 16/01/2018 16:24:46    2068727

Link