National Forum

Reckless Winter Madness Continues

(Oldest Posts First)

Have voiced opposition for the last 4 or 5 years ,to abiding lack of respect shown by Croke Park ot hurlers and fotballers ... will repeat here and maybe someone will listen .. Why is there more hurling and football every year in January and February compared to rest of the year : McGrath, Munster League, club semi finals..beginning of league etc.
Suggest have Croke Park official sit on sideline for entire games, "togged out" so as to get a sense of the reality they perpetrate.

Below copied from Irish Examiner


By Eoghan Cormican
Sports Reporter
The McGrath Cup and Munster Senior Hurling League will proceed in 2018 despite a spate of withdrawals in recent weeks, provincial council chairman Simon Moroney has confirmed.

Simon Moroney
Tipperary and Waterford are not participating in the pre-season hurling competition, while Kerry and Tipperary have opted out of the football equivalent.

Moroney said the McGrath Cup and Munster SHL would continue in 2018, with the format and scheduling of both competitions to be decided at a meeting of the Council on Wednesday, November 29.

Both were run off on a round-robin format earlier this year, but that could change given the reduced number of counties involved next season.

What will be decided at the meeting later this month is whether to proceed with a four-team round-robin structure or to have a straight knockout competition which would require only three games to determine a winner.

"If we go with a round-robin format, then you'll need four match-days and there is the likelihood of starting on Saturday, December 30, unless you opt to play games mid-week," Moroney explained.

"If a knockout format is agreed upon, then you can have the semi-finals on the first weekend of January and the final, possibly, the following weekend."

Owing to a rule change earlier this year, either competition does not need to be completed before the opening round of the national league on January 27. Indeed, the final of the FBD Connacht football league is provisionally fixed for February.

"It is our aspiration to have both finished before the league commences," Moroney continued.

"It is hard to maintain interest once the leagues are up and running. They then become the focus of county teams."

Said Tipperary hurling manager Michael Ryan, on Tipp FM, of their decision to withdraw for a third consecutive year: "The Munster league format wasn't going to be conducive for us. It was going to bring us right up to the start of the National Hurling League with five games. It's too much."

PatOLogical (Limerick) - 21/11/2017 21:22:11    2063223

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It's so annoying.

GAA are supposed to be summer sports. They pretty much are not the way the season is structured. The summer is for training for a handful of matches now.

Stupid and annoying.

It can actually easily be fixed, whilst improving the status of the leagues.

February and March for club Provincial championship. Intercounty preseason also.

April and May for the leagues.

June and July for championship with it finished on August bank holiday.

Every county championship fixed at the start of the year finished by end of October.

Winter off.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - 21/11/2017 21:47:23    2063226

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Replying To Whammo86:  "It's so annoying.

GAA are supposed to be summer sports. They pretty much are not the way the season is structured. The summer is for training for a handful of matches now.

Stupid and annoying.

It can actually easily be fixed, whilst improving the status of the leagues.

February and March for club Provincial championship. Intercounty preseason also.

April and May for the leagues.

June and July for championship with it finished on August bank holiday.

Every county championship fixed at the start of the year finished by end of October.

Winter off."
Great stuff but you forgot one thing.Money, if your ideas were adopted the clubs would grow,the GAA as the leading organization would be reinforced but where would the 2.8 Million for the GPA come from not to mind the wages in Croke park

jobber (Westmeath) - 21/11/2017 23:32:09    2063234

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because coach x in county x has heard that coach y in county y has the lads training 4 nights a week,that'll have them ready for june.
and,of course,it suits coaches because every night training is €€€€

perfect10 (Wexford) - 22/11/2017 09:35:00    2063244

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Replying To jobber:  "Great stuff but you forgot one thing.Money, if your ideas were adopted the clubs would grow,the GAA as the leading organization would be reinforced but where would the 2.8 Million for the GPA come from not to mind the wages in Croke park"
I think the league would bring in way, way more.

I've said it for a long time but the league could easily be linked to championship.

So the league could be used to determine the last 8 instead of the qualifiers.

4 Provincial champions. 3 more from division 1 (which is 2 sections of 8) plus the division 2 champion.

There are way more big matches. Quarterfinal place for the division 2 champion doesn't feel like an excessive reward and makes that a super competition for the participants.

I'd make division 2 regional to cut costs for the weaker teams.

Top 2 from each section into division 2 semifinals but 3rd and 4th from each also qualify for promotion playoffs. The winner of that round play the losing semi finalists. If one group is harder than the other then more from that group should make it up.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - 22/11/2017 10:51:11    2063254

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Replying To Whammo86:  "It's so annoying.

GAA are supposed to be summer sports. They pretty much are not the way the season is structured. The summer is for training for a handful of matches now.

Stupid and annoying.

It can actually easily be fixed, whilst improving the status of the leagues.

February and March for club Provincial championship. Intercounty preseason also.

April and May for the leagues.

June and July for championship with it finished on August bank holiday.

Every county championship fixed at the start of the year finished by end of October.

Winter off."
Hadn't thought it that far ahead Whammo , but your suggestion is well thought out and would make a great start.
Players who suufer most are onew whoplay college hurling and football therefore cannot be part of county teams in Jan and February as weel as some of March. Ditto for club teams who are still in club championship after Christmas. Club and county suffer as they boys inclub are not availble to the county when temainsbeing formed. Prime example tody is Na Piarsaigh and Limerick hurlers. 10 Na Piarsaigh players on Limerick panel. Then agin why should Crtoke Park care when Linerick county board continue to grow DUMB,FAT AND HAPPY!

PatOLogical (Limerick) - 23/11/2017 18:12:18    2063399

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all the talk about 6 day turnarounds in the summer on a dry pitch,yet we seem to have no problem in the gaa training 4-5 nights a week on a boggy,sodden pitch in november?
what sort of madness is this?
my thoughts?play every weekend for a month or two in the summer,then back to the clubs.
training in november benefits nobody

perfect10 (Wexford) - 24/11/2017 12:05:09    2063438

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Replying To Whammo86:  "It's so annoying.

GAA are supposed to be summer sports. They pretty much are not the way the season is structured. The summer is for training for a handful of matches now.

Stupid and annoying.

It can actually easily be fixed, whilst improving the status of the leagues.

February and March for club Provincial championship. Intercounty preseason also.

April and May for the leagues.

June and July for championship with it finished on August bank holiday.

Every county championship fixed at the start of the year finished by end of October.

Winter off."
Sounds simple but that calendar means the end of the dual club player. The reality is if a lad plays both hurling and football he generally gets lots of games in most counties, if he only plays one sport he might have long periods without championship. It's hard to know what the GAA can do to improve the lot of the one sport player without over burdening a lad who plays both sports.

Soma (UK) - 25/11/2017 09:36:54    2063510

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Replying To Soma:  "Sounds simple but that calendar means the end of the dual club player. The reality is if a lad plays both hurling and football he generally gets lots of games in most counties, if he only plays one sport he might have long periods without championship. It's hard to know what the GAA can do to improve the lot of the one sport player without over burdening a lad who plays both sports."
There's about 12 or 13 weeks there at the end of the season. Most counties could play 2 championships in that. Football week followed by hurling week.

Counties not making the quarterfinals probably get a good 16 weeks at it. If a few championships run in to November because their county had an expected run that's not the worst thing as a one off.

Club Provincial championship isn't until February, so won't impact other counties. You don't have the situation where club champions have to play Provincial championship the day after winning a county title.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - 25/11/2017 10:27:18    2063511

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Replying To Whammo86:  "There's about 12 or 13 weeks there at the end of the season. Most counties could play 2 championships in that. Football week followed by hurling week.

Counties not making the quarterfinals probably get a good 16 weeks at it. If a few championships run in to November because their county had an expected run that's not the worst thing as a one off.

Club Provincial championship isn't until February, so won't impact other counties. You don't have the situation where club champions have to play Provincial championship the day after winning a county title."
See already by saying counties not making the quarter finals get 16 weeks means that a club player would not know when their championship starts until June - with that caveat it could be in July, it might be in August. If the aim is to give players certainty at the start of the year when they will be playing it has failed already. I'm not dismissing your idea, just showing how difficult it is to implement. A number of championships require a team playing 8 games to win it, if you have to do that in 2 sports within 12 weeks it becomes impossible. If players are forced to play championship every week then pressure will come on players to choose one sport or the other - look at this situation a few weeks ago where a club failed to field in U21 because some of their players had a senior club game the following week. Trying to keep both sports going in some counties is difficult enough without that added problem - the calendar you have proposed would see clubs playing the weaker sport fold. Should the CPA be bringing forward proposals to end all replays in club games as this is a huge reason why calendars are not stuck to? Other things like appeals and games being cancelled due to unavoidable things like funerals or weather also cause chaos.

Soma (UK) - 25/11/2017 21:27:21    2063552

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Replying To Soma:  "See already by saying counties not making the quarter finals get 16 weeks means that a club player would not know when their championship starts until June - with that caveat it could be in July, it might be in August. If the aim is to give players certainty at the start of the year when they will be playing it has failed already. I'm not dismissing your idea, just showing how difficult it is to implement. A number of championships require a team playing 8 games to win it, if you have to do that in 2 sports within 12 weeks it becomes impossible. If players are forced to play championship every week then pressure will come on players to choose one sport or the other - look at this situation a few weeks ago where a club failed to field in U21 because some of their players had a senior club game the following week. Trying to keep both sports going in some counties is difficult enough without that added problem - the calendar you have proposed would see clubs playing the weaker sport fold. Should the CPA be bringing forward proposals to end all replays in club games as this is a huge reason why calendars are not stuck to? Other things like appeals and games being cancelled due to unavoidable things like funerals or weather also cause chaos."
I agree it defeats the purpose of my proposal to have a variable start date to championship.

2 potential solutions.

Play club championship into November. Doesn't impact anyone else.

Play a limited number of club championship games midweek. These should be planned for at the start of the season so that those not living near their home can work around them.

The game days could be something along these lines using 2018 as an example.

Sunday 6th August All Ireland football final.
Sunday 13th August hurling round 1
Wednesday 16th August football round 1
Sunday 20th August hurling round 2
Sunday 27th August football round 2
Wednesday 30th August hurling round 3
Sunday 3rd September football round 3
Sunday 10th September hurling round 4
Wednesday 13th September football round 4
Sunday 17th September hurling round 5
Sunday 24th September football round 5
Wednesday 27th September hurling round 6
Sunday 1st October football round 6
Sunday 8th October hurling round 7
Sunday 15th October football round 7
Sunday 22nd October hurling round 8
Sunday 29th October football round 9.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - 25/11/2017 23:03:29    2063554

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I agree it defeats the purpose of my proposal to have a variable start date to championship.

2 potential solutions.

Play club championship into November. Doesn't impact anyone else.

Play a limited number of club championship games midweek. These should be planned for at the start of the season so that those not living near their home can work around them.

The game days could be something along these lines using 2018 as an example.

Sunday 6th August All Ireland football final.
Sunday 13th August hurling round 1
Wednesday 16th August football round 1
Sunday 20th August hurling round 2
Sunday 27th August football round 2
Wednesday 30th August hurling round 3
Sunday 3rd September football round 3
Sunday 10th September hurling round 4
Wednesday 13th September football round 4
Sunday 17th September hurling round 5
Sunday 24th September football round 5
Wednesday 27th September hurling round 6
Sunday 1st October football round 6
Sunday 8th October hurling round 7
Sunday 15th October football round 7
Sunday 22nd October hurling round 8
Sunday 29th October football round 9."
That pattern of

Hurling Sunday
Football Wednesday
Hurling Sunday
Football Sunday
Hurling Wednesday
Football Sunday

Can be used in April to July to get club leagues played off. Should allow for 27 game days. 18 weekends and 9 Wednesdays.

These sorts of proposals don't 100% suit every single outcome under the sun.

They make a good stab at providing a better season than is currently being offered.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - 25/11/2017 23:10:44    2063555

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I agree it defeats the purpose of my proposal to have a variable start date to championship.

2 potential solutions.

Play club championship into November. Doesn't impact anyone else.

Play a limited number of club championship games midweek. These should be planned for at the start of the season so that those not living near their home can work around them.

The game days could be something along these lines using 2018 as an example.

Sunday 6th August All Ireland football final.
Sunday 13th August hurling round 1
Wednesday 16th August football round 1
Sunday 20th August hurling round 2
Sunday 27th August football round 2
Wednesday 30th August hurling round 3
Sunday 3rd September football round 3
Sunday 10th September hurling round 4
Wednesday 13th September football round 4
Sunday 17th September hurling round 5
Sunday 24th September football round 5
Wednesday 27th September hurling round 6
Sunday 1st October football round 6
Sunday 8th October hurling round 7
Sunday 15th October football round 7
Sunday 22nd October hurling round 8
Sunday 29th October football round 9."
It's a long time since I lived in Ireland and was playing both sports but when I was there were a lot of lads from the west coast living in Dublin during the week and going back to their clubs at the weekend. I'd be amazed though if things have changed enough to allow any western club find that fixture list suitable. I'd love to know how it compares to how things were ran off in Meath (I think that's where you are based) this year? Any chance you could put up when each round of senior football and hurling was played this year and we see which would be better for the average club player?
There are lots of issues with your proposal, but there are lots of issues with any proposal. But under the current fixture list 24 club teams will be training this Christmas preparing for All-Ireland semi finals. Under your proposals about 125 teams would be training this Christmas preparing for provincial championships. The cost of that for clubs is huge, and I'm not sure how pleased club players would be either. Iv trained over Christmas for All-Ireland semi finals and it's no problem because you are 1 game from Croke Park. Not sure I'd be keen if I was facing into the first round of a provincial campaign.

Soma (UK) - 26/11/2017 09:52:14    2063561

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Replying To Soma:  "It's a long time since I lived in Ireland and was playing both sports but when I was there were a lot of lads from the west coast living in Dublin during the week and going back to their clubs at the weekend. I'd be amazed though if things have changed enough to allow any western club find that fixture list suitable. I'd love to know how it compares to how things were ran off in Meath (I think that's where you are based) this year? Any chance you could put up when each round of senior football and hurling was played this year and we see which would be better for the average club player?
There are lots of issues with your proposal, but there are lots of issues with any proposal. But under the current fixture list 24 club teams will be training this Christmas preparing for All-Ireland semi finals. Under your proposals about 125 teams would be training this Christmas preparing for provincial championships. The cost of that for clubs is huge, and I'm not sure how pleased club players would be either. Iv trained over Christmas for All-Ireland semi finals and it's no problem because you are 1 game from Croke Park. Not sure I'd be keen if I was facing into the first round of a provincial campaign."
We played in Meath football championship on the following.
Friday 19th May
Tuesday 25th July
Sunday 13th August
Thursday 24th August
Sunday 10th September
Saturday 23rd September
Sunday 8th October
Sunday 22nd October

Our dual players had hurling:
Tuesday 6th June
Monday 19th June
Tuesday 11th July
Sunday 30th July
Sunday 20th August
Saturday 2nd September knocked out in the quarterfinals
Semifinal would've been Saturday 16th September
Final Saturday 30th September

I don't know how Meath will be able to fit in their championship now with the changes being brought in.

Even this year there were problems. Hurling clubs weren't given access to intercounty footballers for some rounds of championship.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - 26/11/2017 11:42:37    2063565

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Replying To Soma:  "It's a long time since I lived in Ireland and was playing both sports but when I was there were a lot of lads from the west coast living in Dublin during the week and going back to their clubs at the weekend. I'd be amazed though if things have changed enough to allow any western club find that fixture list suitable. I'd love to know how it compares to how things were ran off in Meath (I think that's where you are based) this year? Any chance you could put up when each round of senior football and hurling was played this year and we see which would be better for the average club player?
There are lots of issues with your proposal, but there are lots of issues with any proposal. But under the current fixture list 24 club teams will be training this Christmas preparing for All-Ireland semi finals. Under your proposals about 125 teams would be training this Christmas preparing for provincial championships. The cost of that for clubs is huge, and I'm not sure how pleased club players would be either. Iv trained over Christmas for All-Ireland semi finals and it's no problem because you are 1 game from Croke Park. Not sure I'd be keen if I was facing into the first round of a provincial campaign."
The west coast clubs could play into November.

Galway don't have Provincial championship, so their senior hurling final is in December. I wouldn't like it myself but it's not unprecedented.

How many weekends do the other western hurling championships take up? I'd suspect not many.


With the new proposals, we're already seeing counties change their championship formats to work around things.

My suggestion is not full proof. There's no full proof solution, that's why the CPA is needed to try and smooth things as much as possible.

Their April club month suggestion is just stupid though. It doesn't suit club players with championship being played as early as April. It doesn't suit county teams preparing for the Provincial championships.

We played right into November this year having started matches in February, with training having started on 27th December. That's a long slog of a season. I'd genuinely much prefer to start in April and be known that I'll finish in October.

If we'd a Provincial campaign to play I'd say we'd have had the whole of November off, would do a bit in December. Have Christmas week off and then have 4 weeks to prepare for the Provincial championship. I'd have absolutely been fine with that.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - 26/11/2017 12:08:49    2063568

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Replying To Whammo86:  "We played in Meath football championship on the following.
Friday 19th May
Tuesday 25th July
Sunday 13th August
Thursday 24th August
Sunday 10th September
Saturday 23rd September
Sunday 8th October
Sunday 22nd October

Our dual players had hurling:
Tuesday 6th June
Monday 19th June
Tuesday 11th July
Sunday 30th July
Sunday 20th August
Saturday 2nd September knocked out in the quarterfinals
Semifinal would've been Saturday 16th September
Final Saturday 30th September

I don't know how Meath will be able to fit in their championship now with the changes being brought in.

Even this year there were problems. Hurling clubs weren't given access to intercounty footballers for some rounds of championship."
That sounds like an excellent calendar, lots of games and all played from May to October. I can't believe the amount of mid week games but being on the east coast makes it possible. Still, any lad doing a days hard physical work or driving for a living surely can't be at his best in a game that evening. It just shows though, there will never be a one size fits all as each county has different needs. Just one point on the intercounty footballers not hurling for their clubs - that would have been their decision presumably made as it would have risked their place on the county panel. Nobody can deny clubs access to their players as no player has a contract with anyone.

Soma (UK) - 26/11/2017 12:19:09    2063570

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Replying To Soma:  "It's a long time since I lived in Ireland and was playing both sports but when I was there were a lot of lads from the west coast living in Dublin during the week and going back to their clubs at the weekend. I'd be amazed though if things have changed enough to allow any western club find that fixture list suitable. I'd love to know how it compares to how things were ran off in Meath (I think that's where you are based) this year? Any chance you could put up when each round of senior football and hurling was played this year and we see which would be better for the average club player?
There are lots of issues with your proposal, but there are lots of issues with any proposal. But under the current fixture list 24 club teams will be training this Christmas preparing for All-Ireland semi finals. Under your proposals about 125 teams would be training this Christmas preparing for provincial championships. The cost of that for clubs is huge, and I'm not sure how pleased club players would be either. Iv trained over Christmas for All-Ireland semi finals and it's no problem because you are 1 game from Croke Park. Not sure I'd be keen if I was facing into the first round of a provincial campaign."
It just easy really an issue what you raise.

Galway has a lot of championship games but they play into November and can continue to still do so.

Mayo 6 football 4 hurling rounds
Sligo 6 football 6 hurling rounds it looks like
Leitrim 8 football 2 hurling rounds
Roscommon 8 football, 3-5 hurling rounds

It's really hard to get good results lists for the hurling championships. These competitions all can easily be fit into August to October.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - 26/11/2017 12:31:50    2063574

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there is no reason in this world why any gaa gate should be opened in november.every championship should be finished by 31st october,and no gate opened before 1st january.
every player deserves 2 months of the year off.
if we compress the inter county calendar,it could easily be done.

perfect10 (Wexford) - 26/11/2017 22:32:06    2063687

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