National Forum

Stephen Cluxton.

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "I think you may be overstating how excellent that Galway team was Username, I didn't fancy them at all in the final. They 'destroyed' Kerry for 10 minutes in the semi until Kerry put their house in order, how Jack left it so long before making some really obvious changes around the middle boggles the mind, and I won't even get in to some of the bizarre team selections. We were ten points down at that stage but controlled the rest of the game until a needless Kerry sending during the second half finished any hope of turning it around. We lost by four points if I recall correctly, and if the game was replayed Galway wouldn't get that start ever again and we would beat them comfortably in my opinion. I wouldn't expect anybody from Galway to agree with me of course.

I think Con deserved his award btw, he was certainly one of the top forwards in the championship, and easily the best young player. These award are a bit of a circus though, some really strange inclusions and omissions every year, It's not worth anybody getting upset over (not saying you are getting upset, I see lots of other posters getting offended that their teams player(s) weren't included)."
Thought Galway were the best team to be honest mate, even when momentum swung back to Kerry, that said I'd bow to your superior knowledge probably watching that team in particular more then me.

I have to agree with you mate, the razzmatazz of it all I think is disruptive and depleting to the overall cause which . All stars, Holliday's, international rules etc creates a reputation and profile, leading to hype and pressure and critiuqe. I've seen it all before with Dublin in the 90s. It's why we give the media nothing now. I often think Mayo are like Dublin in the 90s, falling into all the above traps. I do also think sponsors and media engagement friendliness come into it these days from that point of view it's a sideshow worth avoiding if you can.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 04/11/2017 16:12:57    2060443

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Thought Galway were the best team to be honest mate, even when momentum swung back to Kerry, that said I'd bow to your superior knowledge probably watching that team in particular more then me.

I have to agree with you mate, the razzmatazz of it all I think is disruptive and depleting to the overall cause which . All stars, Holliday's, international rules etc creates a reputation and profile, leading to hype and pressure and critiuqe. I've seen it all before with Dublin in the 90s. It's why we give the media nothing now. I often think Mayo are like Dublin in the 90s, falling into all the above traps. I do also think sponsors and media engagement friendliness come into it these days from that point of view it's a sideshow worth avoiding if you can."
Oh yeah, better team on the day without a doubt and deserved the win. The comprehensiveness of the victory is what I'd dispute, it wasn't nearly as clear cut as many like to recall. We had it back to three points and were really motoring before O'Sullivan was sent off with a full fifteen minutes to go. It was still a game at that stage.

I didn't watch the all stars and I couldn't care less who did or didn't get one. It's probably a nice award for players who didn't win the All Ireland and may never win one but that's about it. I doubt any of the Mayo players see it as any sort of consolation for what happened in September. If it was voted for by the players it would be more transparent and would hold more weight for me.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 04/11/2017 17:24:19    2060455

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "Oh yeah, better team on the day without a doubt and deserved the win. The comprehensiveness of the victory is what I'd dispute, it wasn't nearly as clear cut as many like to recall. We had it back to three points and were really motoring before O'Sullivan was sent off with a full fifteen minutes to go. It was still a game at that stage.

I didn't watch the all stars and I couldn't care less who did or didn't get one. It's probably a nice award for players who didn't win the All Ireland and may never win one but that's about it. I doubt any of the Mayo players see it as any sort of consolation for what happened in September. If it was voted for by the players it would be more transparent and would hold more weight for me."
I thought the shortlist was decided by journalists and from that shortlist the final 15 is voted for by intercounty players?

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7344 - 04/11/2017 18:02:23    2060459

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "I thought the shortlist was decided by journalists and from that shortlist the final 15 is voted for by intercounty players?"
Selection committee made up of journalists is my understanding, unless it has changed. The players pick POTY alright

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 04/11/2017 18:30:09    2060464

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The all stars will always be controversial. 15 players picked from the whole of the country.
An all star is of little importance compared to an AI.
Cluxton has the prize that matters.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 04/11/2017 19:30:03    2060472

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Cluxton should have got the all star. Clarke is very good but Cluxton is way ahead of any other goalkeeper in the country and I thought his kickouts were brilliant this year.

Green_Gold (Donegal) - Posts: 1874 - 05/11/2017 00:50:13    2060521

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "Oh yeah, better team on the day without a doubt and deserved the win. The comprehensiveness of the victory is what I'd dispute, it wasn't nearly as clear cut as many like to recall. We had it back to three points and were really motoring before O'Sullivan was sent off with a full fifteen minutes to go. It was still a game at that stage.

I didn't watch the all stars and I couldn't care less who did or didn't get one. It's probably a nice award for players who didn't win the All Ireland and may never win one but that's about it. I doubt any of the Mayo players see it as any sort of consolation for what happened in September. If it was voted for by the players it would be more transparent and would hold more weight for me."
Fair play mate, it was cracking entertainment served up in the U21 championship thins year, hopefully the U20s this year will be the same fare.

Its an interesting one with journalists picking the all stars, Dublin have been given a lot of criticism for their dead pan approach to media engagement i wonder did Cluxton suffer for that given that as captain he is also in the mushroom vanguard.

I also seems to me that their is a concerted effort to block "new football" by that i mean short passing, new kick out rules and the introduction of the mark, again Cluxton is the for-bearer of that and typifies it in a way.

I suppose all these issues have their nuances, but all in all fair play to those honored, i dont personally put a lot of stock in them, but i hope the players are proud of their achievements.

I think they would be better served being more diverse, the likes of Murphy at Carlow or Clarke at Armagh and some of the Down lads would be worthy winners on performance as opposed to winning games and for me would promote the spirit of the game recognising the context of performence rather then success, success should e looked at relatively in my opinion and every player should have an equal chance of winning it.

What Carlow, Armagh or Down did this year is many ways deserves more recognition in this type of award then what Dublin, Kerry, Tyrone or Mayo did given the context.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 05/11/2017 10:21:15    2060536

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We may get a better spread next year with the Super 8 as there will be more meaningful games. I just don't like the way the team is picked currently. Cluxton not getting one since 2013 is farcical, if it was the players voting he'd probably have two or three in that time. I also don't like the way players are shoehorned into positions they don't play to fit them into the team. With journos picking it it just has a feel of a team that's picked down the pub, that's why you get these silly inclusions and omissions in my view.

I don't see why the players can't be presented with a list of three players per position and let them tick the box and select the team. With the technology available now it shouldn't be a big task.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 05/11/2017 11:06:26    2060547

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Last comment I promise;

Just remember that this was the year that the captain of a team that;

Broke the unbeaten record that was held for nearly a hundred years

Broke the all time appearance's record

The first player to captain his team to 3 in a row

Doesn't win an all star

Shame on everyone who can't stand Dublin or a man who doesn't play the media game.


Stephen Cluxton adored in Dublin

Legend

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 05/11/2017 12:05:14    2060553

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How can you have a player nominated on a shortlist for player of the year and then not win an all star?

Benbulben (Sligo) - Posts: 298 - 05/11/2017 12:22:45    2060557

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So many people can feel hard done by every year when the All Stars come out. I agree that nobody would have complained had Cluxton got an award but he is only one of many.

What about Kerry, who won the National League & lost to Mayo after a replay in the AI semi final? How can they get only one?

What about all those great players who never get an award because of where they are from? How is that fair?

Stephen Cluxton is a great player & someone I admire hugely, partly because he won't be too bothered about this, but the fact of the matter is if he was from Carlow, Louth or Leitrim he would have won nothing of any description.

Was he unlucky not to get an award? Yes he was.

Is he a very lucky man to be from Dublin in a team run by Jim Gavin? You bet your life he is & he well knows it.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 05/11/2017 12:45:49    2060562

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No reason to restrict it to 15 when the positions are now meaningless. Look at the American sports where an all-star is a big deal, they don't just pick 5 players for the basketball!!!

catchturnscore (Longford) - Posts: 149 - 05/11/2017 13:44:11    2060572

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Replying To MuckrossHead:  "So many people can feel hard done by every year when the All Stars come out. I agree that nobody would have complained had Cluxton got an award but he is only one of many.

What about Kerry, who won the National League & lost to Mayo after a replay in the AI semi final? How can they get only one?

What about all those great players who never get an award because of where they are from? How is that fair?

Stephen Cluxton is a great player & someone I admire hugely, partly because he won't be too bothered about this, but the fact of the matter is if he was from Carlow, Louth or Leitrim he would have won nothing of any description.

Was he unlucky not to get an award? Yes he was.

Is he a very lucky man to be from Dublin in a team run by Jim Gavin? You bet your life he is & he well knows it."
Excellent post hit the nail on the head , the all stars are first world problems, Clucko is mad as a bag of cats , but he's loved and respected all over Dublin has a shi7 load of medals he will have taken this in his stride

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 05/11/2017 14:12:40    2060579

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Replying To catchturnscore:  "No reason to restrict it to 15 when the positions are now meaningless. Look at the American sports where an all-star is a big deal, they don't just pick 5 players for the basketball!!!"
Maybe they should just hand All-Star Awards to all thirty who start the All-Ireland final and forget about the rest (they obviously count for very little anyway). It would cut out all the voting crap and stop teasing players from lesser achieving counties that they stood a chance of winning an award.
What does the 'All-Star' in the title of the Award actually mean?

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 05/11/2017 19:20:12    2060648

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I generally judge players by the criteria "Would they make a significant difference to a weaker team such as our own ?". Cluxton undeniably would . Connolly undeniably would , in the same way as laois are half the team without donie kingston. But i dont believe for a minute that dean rock would improve the laois team to any significant degree. Cluxton connolly and jack mccaffrey are game changers. But theyre are other players who puggy back their way to all stars every year. It was a crime donie kingston didnt get a nomination this year.

Malonemagic (Laois) - Posts: 766 - 05/11/2017 21:07:07    2060660

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Replying To Benbulben:  "How can you have a player nominated on a shortlist for player of the year and then not win an all star?"
Brian Whelehan was Player of the Year in 1994 but never won an All Star that year! Apparently, inexplicably, they picked the All Stars before the All Ireland final.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7344 - 05/11/2017 22:02:53    2060670

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Replying To Benbulben:  "How can you have a player nominated on a shortlist for player of the year and then not win an all star?"
Well, they couldn't really pick two goalkeepers...meaningless and all as positions in the All-Stars are now.

I believe the logic behind having the extra player nominated for POTY was that if only one GK was nominated it would be effectively announcing who the the All-Star goalkeeper would be. They really should have nominated the Tyrone GK as well to keep things fair.

game.on.now.ger (Galway) - Posts: 423 - 06/11/2017 08:06:50    2060689

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Replying To Malonemagic:  "I generally judge players by the criteria "Would they make a significant difference to a weaker team such as our own ?". Cluxton undeniably would . Connolly undeniably would , in the same way as laois are half the team without donie kingston. But i dont believe for a minute that dean rock would improve the laois team to any significant degree. Cluxton connolly and jack mccaffrey are game changers. But theyre are other players who puggy back their way to all stars every year. It was a crime donie kingston didnt get a nomination this year."
I would agree with what you say there, and a good way to pick a player as you suggest i.e. would he/thry make an impact on another team be they stronger or weaker. Very true re Dean Rock.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4896 - 06/11/2017 09:17:52    2060700

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I always feel sorry for Kevin McLoughlin. He never gets an allstar and probably never will but he is a great little player and always works his socks off as well as creating openings for his more illustrious team-mates and pops up with a few vital scores too. I think it's a tough call between Cluxton and Clarke this year. they are both great shot stoppers and great in a one-on-one situation . Cluxton is great with the pin-point kickouts to his team-mates but they do make it easier for him as the movement out the field from the Dublin players is much better than any team, they get in to position to receive as soon as a the ball goes dead , other teams are much slower to get in to space and so it is harder for other keepers to find a man. But Cluxton is and always has been a top top keeper and will be regarded by history as the best to ever play the game. It's hard to argue with any of the picks. AOS did drag Mayo through a lot of games this year and I suppose Kilkenny was well contained in the final even though he was outstanding in all other games. perhaps they could have selected AOS at midfield instead of C. Kavanagh and given the number 11 to Kilkenny. I think Keegan missed some games this year but when he did play he was outstanding.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 06/11/2017 10:43:10    2060720

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I'd have plumped for Cluxton alright.

Clarke did have another good season.

I think Cluxton gets more heavily criticised when a few things go wrong for him. Last year v Kerry his 5 minute spell before half time was treated very harshly. I think he was penalised this year for the first half against Mayo where you struggled a bit more on your own kick out. He still had a good game though and made a huge save in the second half."
He didn't make a huge save in the second half, he had to move 6 inches to his right. I'd have saved it and my last game was 2 years ago in Division 10 in Dublin! Cluxton is getting punished for 2 reasons: The first is that he had a poor final. Giving possession away from kickouts and continued to do it until Jason Sherlock had to direct him to change tack. And secondly, he suffers (through no fault of his own) from Kilkenny Goalie Syndrome. Clarke got more chances this year to show how good a keeper he is. Due to Dublin's procession to the final, Cluxton got very little. I think Stephen Cluxton is the best goalie of all time. In 2034 the GAA will produce a team of the 150 years and if I'm still around I'll be voting for him but based on 2017, and only 2017, I can't see the arugment for Cluxton for All Star. The ironic thing is that the person who cares least about this? Stephen Cluxton.

FootblockREF (Monaghan) - Posts: 563 - 06/11/2017 11:05:00    2060725

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