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Time for HURLING to leave GAA

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If the GAA have their way Hurling will be more popular outside of Ireland than Ireland. That's all well and good so long as you don't kill the golden goose.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2206 - 20/10/2017 01:28:52    2056433

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Replying To bloodyban:  "Besides the separation of the two sports other practical things can be done now.
The coupling of counties might work. Say a bunch of 3 counties like Kilkenny, Carlow and Kildare. I know clubs are invited to play in Kilkenny for leagues from the two weaker counties. This could be expanded to raise standards. Limerick could certainly accommodate 4 or 5 of the North Kerry hurling clubs. They'd fit into the premier Intermediate or senior competitions. They could also play the sherry championship as normal."
The GPA publicised an initiative of theirs some years ago to couple traditional hurling counties with the "weak" counties for coaching purposes. I don't know if that was just PR stuff or if something actually came out of it. But even so, all the effort in the world will not bear fruit if you have a county board that prioritises Gaelic football and does not treat both sports equally. That is the case in so many counties. There should be a separate hurling and football board in all counties. They would need to come together to collaborate on a fixtures list of course but a separate hurling board is the only way that real development can take place within most counties. We made a retrograde step in Galway some years ago when we amalgamated the football and hurling boards but you can get away with that in a county like Galway where both games have got equal status and there's no danger (in theory at any rate) that one sport will be prioritised over the other.

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1027 - 20/10/2017 09:33:52    2056459

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There is a lot to be said to having one county board. Synergys from consolidating S&C, Medical, logistics etc.

However point taken that in countys that do not care about one grade you have a problem. The other issue with one county board is that outside the secretary the rest are doing it in their spare time and the workload may be too much.

You could have 2 county boards reporting to 1 full time CEO who oversees both. Do away with the full time secretary roles. That way you have 2 county boards driving their own sport but the CEO sitting above them ensures the synergys.

Would also be good if CEO had a business background. Some county boards lack professionalism. Lack of proper planning, coaching structure etc.

Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 693 - 20/10/2017 11:33:02    2056499

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Replying To Cavan_Slasher:  "Only a few counties take hurling seriously.
Football is more popular in the majority of counties even if it is not played very well."
That's because football is an easier sport to play. If hurling was simpler to play than football, then given the respective entertainment values of both sports, hurling would likely be far more popular.

Not that it matters, both are great sports in their own right, and I find that most players involved in clubs are happy to play both codes if given the ample opportunity. The problems with the GAA as I see it are fourfold;

1 - The administration of the games. Its haphazard, all over the place, there are cliques and politics involved that mean little gets down and what does is not thought through but rushed in a panic to the benefit of the money sinning counties, eg the Super 8 and the hurling provincial groups. Its democracy is its mill stone.
2 - The provincial system. It only works as a direct knockout cup competition. Basing a championship on unevenly numbered provincial sections, with replays and a backdoor is beyond pointless at this stage, its creates an uneven and beneficial advantage to the bigger sides. The odd year a minnow might go on a run in the province, or possibly win a trophy, is all too rare to keep the provincials annually relevant. Even at that, there's no reason why there can't be an even championship structure and a separate cup competition based on the provinces, as its meant to be.
3 - Point three comes amalgamates the first two points. Both codes, through poor administration and a haphazard championship structure, are in direct competition with each other.
4 - All three points above lead to the biggest problem; the treatment of the clubs. There's little time set aside for them through poor administration and an over-bearing and unpredictable county structure, and with both codes in direct competition with each other, it puts a strain on the clubs to have their players available to them for their preferred code, never mind both.

If hurling walked from the GAA, or split in some way, and put in place a competition structure that allowed for the clubs and county to work in tandem throughout the year, I would welcome it with open arms. And I'd have no doubt it would force football to follow suit.

As it is, its the blind leading the blind through the darkness towards the edge of a very high cliff because the seemingly fresh air seems more alluring than the murky sh** they've surrounded themselves with.

dblackandamber (Kilkenny) - Posts: 89 - 20/10/2017 13:28:36    2056556

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I agree with the administration of the GAA being totally unfit for purpose and so unwieldy. Its not going to be able to be reformed.
Look at the Munster hurling championship now. The draw was made and what I predicted has actually come to pass. Clare v Limerick in Ennis in the last round. Cusack Park Ennis for people that don't know has a capacity of 14,000. There is 2 exits from the ground and terribly small roads. Thurles got around 20,000 last year for the corresponding game and that's when both counties did't want to be travelling for 90 mins plus to get to Thurles. That fixture if there is anything at all to play for is a 25 to 30,000 crowd. So there's a disaster right there. I brt nothing more than a nod has been given to it.

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 730 - 20/10/2017 13:53:37    2056564

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Replying To bloodyban:  "I agree with the administration of the GAA being totally unfit for purpose and so unwieldy. Its not going to be able to be reformed.
Look at the Munster hurling championship now. The draw was made and what I predicted has actually come to pass. Clare v Limerick in Ennis in the last round. Cusack Park Ennis for people that don't know has a capacity of 14,000. There is 2 exits from the ground and terribly small roads. Thurles got around 20,000 last year for the corresponding game and that's when both counties did't want to be travelling for 90 mins plus to get to Thurles. That fixture if there is anything at all to play for is a 25 to 30,000 crowd. So there's a disaster right there. I brt nothing more than a nod has been given to it."
This will lead to a drop off in attendance in general. Once patrons can not get tickets they will become complacent the next day and say sure I'll watch it on t.v. again. Waterford playing Cork and TIpp where? The question asked why they do not have a stadium? There are less than 50 clubs to support the sport in the county. Until lately half of them are really football. Mainly in the west. That has changed a bit. 12 senior hurling teams that 8 at most that should be. Soccer has always been strong and a senior rugby team. In reality we have always punched above our weight with a crop of good players coming true every so often. If the GAA want to accommodate supporters from Tipp and Cork in Waterford then they need to put up the money for a stadium. Until then Waterford should play their home games in Walsh Park only accommodating their own supporters.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 243 - 21/10/2017 16:45:24    2056833

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I think ye're falling into the trap that many separatists fall into i.e. assuming that everyone in your group (in this case, all hurlers in Ireland) is as fervent as ye, and that anyone who doesn't share a hatred of football is a turncoat or victim of some oppressor (football) brainwashing them.

It's funny reading lads claim that in counties where football is dominant, it's because the evil county board crushed hurling which would have been more popular otherwise.Yet with a straight face they turn around say that in counties where hurling is dominant, it's because that's to be expected an even then only because of a valiant effort by the county board to avoid hurling extinction.

Hurling would be my main game, but I think it's a mistake to assume that everyone wants to play it. Hurling has no divine right to be played everywhere by everyone. Some people just don't care and never will.

It'd be interesting to see a hurling association set up. There'd be a huge schism as many (a huge majority, if I'm honest) would stay loyal to the GAA and play the "official" competitions, teams, Liam MacCarthy etc.. The new group would have no grounds, no GAA funds, no sports council funding etc.

Anyone who thinks the GAA would let a new split organisation use their grounds is deluded. Why would they give them the oxygen they need, when they can just nip it at the bud? The new organisation would quickly fold when they've no grounds, no media deal etc. Even if Tipp or Cork GAA wanted to let them use Semple or Páirc Uí Chaoimh, the GAA would punish them for playing outside sports.

CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1130 - 21/10/2017 20:37:28    2056876

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Replying To CastleBravo:  "I think ye're falling into the trap that many separatists fall into i.e. assuming that everyone in your group (in this case, all hurlers in Ireland) is as fervent as ye, and that anyone who doesn't share a hatred of football is a turncoat or victim of some oppressor (football) brainwashing them.

It's funny reading lads claim that in counties where football is dominant, it's because the evil county board crushed hurling which would have been more popular otherwise.Yet with a straight face they turn around say that in counties where hurling is dominant, it's because that's to be expected an even then only because of a valiant effort by the county board to avoid hurling extinction.

Hurling would be my main game, but I think it's a mistake to assume that everyone wants to play it. Hurling has no divine right to be played everywhere by everyone. Some people just don't care and never will.

It'd be interesting to see a hurling association set up. There'd be a huge schism as many (a huge majority, if I'm honest) would stay loyal to the GAA and play the "official" competitions, teams, Liam MacCarthy etc.. The new group would have no grounds, no GAA funds, no sports council funding etc.

Anyone who thinks the GAA would let a new split organisation use their grounds is deluded. Why would they give them the oxygen they need, when they can just nip it at the bud? The new organisation would quickly fold when they've no grounds, no media deal etc. Even if Tipp or Cork GAA wanted to let them use Semple or Páirc Uí Chaoimh, the GAA would punish them for playing outside sports."
True but most people I know who dont like hurling have freely admitted to never having watched a game. There is huge ignorance surrounding the game all over the country and the GAA is doing little to change that.
Growing up in Galway city I was s14 years old before I had ever even watched a game and now I absolutely love it. Of course not everyone is going to list hurling as their favorite sport, but the percentages would definitely rise if its detractors (and being a Meath man Im sure youve come across them yourself), bothered to even try it out.

3Dhurling (Laois) - Posts: 24 - 21/10/2017 21:31:24    2056884

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Agreed. There would be a huge schism. And if the GAA came down hard then I think hurling would win. Those GAA grounds developed by locals for their club would never be locked up by the GAA. It just wouldnt be stood for by the local people. Do you think some guy could stand guard over the pitch..
Look at splits in the past like Rugby league from Union. While Both started out as rugby union it's still a valid comparison. Both sports found their feet and carried on after a tough birthing. I think now would be a good time for a split and both sports could end up winning after the initial turmoil.

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 730 - 22/10/2017 17:09:16    2056998

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Replying To bloodyban:  "Agreed. There would be a huge schism. And if the GAA came down hard then I think hurling would win. Those GAA grounds developed by locals for their club would never be locked up by the GAA. It just wouldnt be stood for by the local people. Do you think some guy could stand guard over the pitch..
Look at splits in the past like Rugby league from Union. While Both started out as rugby union it's still a valid comparison. Both sports found their feet and carried on after a tough birthing. I think now would be a good time for a split and both sports could end up winning after the initial turmoil."
Again, you're assuming everyone in every hurling club will buy in to quitting the GAA and starting up a hurling association. Whereas I'd wager that just about all of those hard working locals who built the club want to remain in the GAA.

The desire for a hurling only association is basically non existent (outside of this topic), I've never seen it discussed elsewhere, never mind the entire hurling population of Ireland actually seriously thinking of doing it.

CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1130 - 22/10/2017 19:31:03    2057032

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It's discussed quiet a bit in Munster. If heard it brought up many times albeit jokingly at first but seriously lately.My local club discussed it at an agm 2 years ago and only one member dissented that i can recall. If someone Like JP McManus stepped in with monetary backing then the dream could become reality rather quickley

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 730 - 23/10/2017 11:58:02    2057193

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One thing nobody has mentioned, which I am very surprised about, is if hurling breaks away from the GAA where are they supposed to play their games? Because they won't be allowed use the current GAA stadiums.

So to the original poster, where will the All Ireland final be held for instance? In an open country field in the middle of the country with a few ropes around the sidelines to keep the 80,000 off the pitch? You won't see much of the match on that day when the crowd is 750 deep behind the ropes!

mike03 (Limerick) - Posts: 1997 - 23/10/2017 12:30:16    2057204

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Replying To PoolSturgeon:  "The GPA publicised an initiative of theirs some years ago to couple traditional hurling counties with the "weak" counties for coaching purposes. I don't know if that was just PR stuff or if something actually came out of it. But even so, all the effort in the world will not bear fruit if you have a county board that prioritises Gaelic football and does not treat both sports equally. That is the case in so many counties. There should be a separate hurling and football board in all counties. They would need to come together to collaborate on a fixtures list of course but a separate hurling board is the only way that real development can take place within most counties. We made a retrograde step in Galway some years ago when we amalgamated the football and hurling boards but you can get away with that in a county like Galway where both games have got equal status and there's no danger (in theory at any rate) that one sport will be prioritised over the other."
I remember this. Donegal got paired with Kilkenny! I think Henry Shefflin was flown up one night in a helicopter to attend a Donegal training session... and that was the end of it. It was more about PR spin for the GPA than anything else

himachechy (Donegal) - Posts: 149 - 23/10/2017 17:07:11    2057300

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