I'm still sifting through it, but it looks like the CCCC's hurling championship proposals have changed, and now limit the Liam McCarthy competition to 10 teams (5 Leinster incl Galway, and 5 Munster), and remove the 'tier 2' teams (Westmeath, Antrim, Carlow, Kerry, Laois and Meath) from the Liam McCarthy. What do people think of that? Seems like a step backwards, no?

For one, if they're doing that, I don't see why they wouldn't merge that tier with the Christy Ring (5 tiers is too much). But regardless, whatever way you work it, its restricting participation in the top tier to less than one third of country, which seems like a step backwards to me. ESPECIALLY in light of the great championship we've just had.

These proposals were rushed and hurried from day one, and seemed to lack the required consideration that should have gone into widespread changes.
What do people think? Does anyone see an upside to this?

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 05/09/2017 16:59:01    2043074

Agree. They seemed to have devalued the competitions from Christy ring downward. Basically the allowed too many teams that were not up to provincial standard into leinster. Now they realise there mistake and the answer is to call it tier 2 and let them play away amongst themselves. Surrey the winners of that group deserve a chance to keep hurling in leister. Especially considering offaly are guranteed games in leinster

Bimb (Carlow) - Posts: 452 - 05/09/2017 17:11:53    2043082

Agree. They seemed to have devalued the competitions from Christy ring downward. Basically the allowed too many teams that were not up to provincial standard into leinster. Now they realise there mistake and the answer is to call it tier 2 and let them play away amongst themselves. Surrey the winners of that group deserve a chance to keep hurling in leister. Especially considering offaly are guranteed games in leinster

Bimb (Carlow) - Posts: 452 - 05/09/2017 17:24:43    2043092

What a further joke and insult to any county trying to break through an ever thickening glass ceiling.

So 'Tier Two' is basically the new Christy Ring but without a trophy (a sort of no mans land). Win it and you can play in the proper championship the next year.

Passer_By (Carlow) - Posts: 509 - 05/09/2017 17:27:32    2043095

I agree with what was said on the Sunday Game after the All-Ireland. If it's not broke, then don't fix it. It's a knee jerk reaction to the football super 8s. I would rather have fewer games and be looking forward to them, than having lots of dull games.

Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, and Tyrone will hammer two teams in the group stages of the super 8s next year as opposed to one in a quarter final. I don't want to see a similar thing happen in hurling where we have dead rubber games.

It's a massive insult to the round robin teams in Leinster too. Westmeath gave Tipp a big scare in Thurles. Under the proposed changes Westmeath, Carlow, Laois, Kerry, Meath, Antrim etc. are being treated with complete disregard. I would be furious if I was a hurling supporter in those counties and rightly so.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 05/09/2017 17:35:30    2043098

Absolutely disgraceful treatment to Kerry, a Leinster side wins the Christy ring and they go straight into leinster but if Kerry win it the have to play a play off against the bottom Munster side. Basically consigning Kerry to tier 2 with no chance of progression. How is this developing the game

as_ky (Kerry) - Posts: 535 - 05/09/2017 17:40:10    2043103

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 05/09/2017 17:51:45    2043108

M Lyster (Antrim) - Posts: 461 - 05/09/2017 18:40:56    2043131

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 05/09/2017 19:55:22    2043148

I'm a bit confused by this, if anyone can clarify!

All the 2017 'Leinster' round robin teams have effectively been relegated to Tier 2 for 2018 with no possibility of playing in next year's Liam McCarthy?

If so, I can imagine this doing a damage to teams on that level as players are likely less motivated if there's no possibility of compete at a higher level i.e like Westmeath v Tipp this year.

Could this Tier 2 not just take place in May / June with the winner getting to play in LMcC?

Morty (Westmeath) - Posts: 209 - 05/09/2017 20:15:50    2043150

Usual nonsense and contempt for the non traditional counties. 6 team competition and1 can get promoted out which means loads of dead rubber matches.

But it's nothing new. If the gaa could just ignore everyone outside the top counties they would.

carlovia (None) - Posts: 1517 - 05/09/2017 20:49:56    2043157

jobber (Westmeath) - Posts: 1445 - 05/09/2017 21:03:44    2043160

What they should do is play this earlier in the months, May and June. Top two teams play off in a Final, which a trophy should be made, They should call it Keady Cup. The two teams in the final then go in to play for the Liam McCarthy, one team goes to the Leinster and the other Goes to Munster.
Problem solved!!

oakleafersir (Derry) - Posts: 808 - 05/09/2017 21:15:14    2043165

carlovia (None) - Posts: 1517 - 05/09/2017 21:44:29    2043174

It's disgraceful

Jack_Sparrow (Westmeath) - Posts: 1014 - 05/09/2017 22:01:06    2043185

Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 05/09/2017 22:07:40    2043188

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 05/09/2017 22:22:43    2043193

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1246 - 05/09/2017 22:39:02    2043202

Hopefully common sense will prevail and they will leave well enough alone. The championship is working well in its current format.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 05/09/2017 22:49:20    2043205

The question I'd ask is, what problems are these changes seeking to address? The problems in inter-county hurling is that too few counties can compete at the top level. And the fewer counties involved, the less interest in inter-county hurling there is. So if changes are made, they should be addressing problems that need addressing.

For example, rather than demote the tier 2 teams, I'd actually like to see changes that revitalize the Ring competition and preserve tier 2 teams status. That could be done by combining the 'tier 2' and Ring championships. I know that sounds like a backward step initially, but I don't mean that as a demotion for tier 2 teams. More for an enlarged Ring 'super' competition (of the 4 'tier 2' teams and 8 Ring teams) to replace the current provincial round robin comp, with the top 2 Ring teams going on to play the 3rd place teams in Leinster and Munster, that same year.
It would:
- increase possible participation in the AI series from 10 teams, to 22 teams
- allow for the lower tier competitions to be played deeper into the summer, and finish at the same time as the provincial round robin series. Playing the Ring/Rackard/Meaghar finals at the same time as the provincial finals,is much better than what we have now.
- Give all existing Ring teams higher profile games against the 4 tier 2 counties, while still allowing the tier 2 counties to face off against each other (tier 2 teams would still have the same opportunity they currently do, just with extra games)
- As its not bound by provincial limits, with some thought and promotion, it could become a much more interesting competition than the provincial comps.
- after year 1, perhaps increase the number of teams playing in Leinster and Munster to 6 each, to better facilitate promotion/relegation thereafter (being realistic, ballydalane made a fair point related to that)

I'm sure there are holes that could be poked in the above idea, but the point is this is where improvement is needed. If the powers that be don't take a holistic approach to the hurling championships, they'll do more harm than good.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 06/09/2017 00:16:38    2043234