National Forum

Mickey Harte stays

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I myself think the man is a legend I think theirs another All Ireland their give the man a chance to do it.

Sheaamy1976 (Tyrone) - 30/08/2017 11:28:22    2040659

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Only Tyrone Gaels can really answer this but my opinion looking in from the outside:

Tyrone have talent and an excellent underage setup in the county. Micky Harte has turned Tyrone into a footballing superpower who are not going to slip away into obscurity. That said the style of play and playing to a "system" is awful to watch and holding Tyrone back. There is no plan B. Tyrone are almost impossible to beat if they build up a lead against you but if the opposition goes ahead its game over....just like when Con Callaghan scored that goal the last day, the game was over and everyone knew it.

On the flip side it could be a case of be careful what you wish for. There is no guarantee a new manager will bring success. Is there anyone in Tyrone capable of taking over the reins? I assume Mickey Harte will walk away at his own choosing...

I have great respect for the man, he came to our club a few years ago and he has that presence about him but maybe it is time to step away?

yew_tree (Mayo) - 30/08/2017 11:51:11    2040670

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Created the below topic on the Tyrone Forum, but sure here is my take on it

I really don't want this to get into a Micky Harte hating thread, but surely now we can assume that some sort of plan has to be put into place for the future of Tyrone football. If not next year, then we have to start planning on replacing Micky at some stage and it clearly can't be left up to the man himself as he has made it perfectly clear that he has no intention of leaving anytime soon.

Our brand of football at the moment will not take us any further than winning what is now a very weak provincial title.

Micky has brought untold success to Tyrone over the years and we are all very grateful but it is getting a little bit ridiculous now. 15 years is too long to be still playing the same system and our management team seem unwilling or are unable to try anything different.

I for one could live with a couple of years floating between division 1&2 and missing out on an Ulster title if it meant that we could develop our players to play instinctively again.

It is now time for a change.

Wally (Tyrone) - 30/08/2017 12:06:39    2040676

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The only question I have for Tyrone lads is can they name me a modern thinking manager with the know how to get more out of their county men than MH? if they whole heartedly believe so then I wouldn't object to change but so far I've heard little to nothing about replacements and nothing but 'time to go'.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - 30/08/2017 12:06:40    2040677

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Time for change. So fed up watching the horrible football we play. Mayo last year, Dublin this year. Tactics all wrong. We need to try and win games, not spend the whole 70 mins trying to stop the opposition scoring. Anyone in Croker last Sunday could see we needed to try something different after 10 mins. What did we do ?? Nothing. I don't think we would have beaten the Dubs but at least we could have tried. But we blew it big style last year against Mayo with those tactics and we don't seem to have learnt anything. Change us long overdue

Redhandsam (Tyrone) - 30/08/2017 12:19:29    2040685

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Replying To Sheaamy1976:  "I myself think the man is a legend I think theirs another All Ireland their give the man a chance to do it."
Do you not think he has had his chance Sheaamy ? How long more can you give him ?

catch22 (USA) - 30/08/2017 12:20:54    2040686

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Replying To Sheaamy1976:  "I myself think the man is a legend I think theirs another All Ireland their give the man a chance to do it."
they've been saying that for the last 10yrs and he hasn't delivered. Sometimes you can just stay around too long. Time to push the reset button and get new fresh faces and ideas on board. Sentimentality is no longer good enough, supporters had got used to a certain amount of success and living on the successes of the 00s team hasn't delivered another AI. As evidenced on sunday past, the players were devoid of any idea how to continue as they have been coached to a system and when it failed no plan seemed to be in place if plan a didn't work. Looking at the side line they also didn't seem to have a clue what to do, it looked like they were stunned, with mh standing like an expressionless statue and resigned to the fact that they'd got it completely wrong. Time to move over mickey your record is impeccable and you owe tyrone nothing, in fact tyrone owe you a deep gratitude for the success and the expectation of even more success.

bulmccabe (Tyrone) - 30/08/2017 12:20:58    2040687

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I have said it before and I will say it again that the fairest and most natural process to replace a senior manager is to allow the underage management team progress and bring their players through.

This means that the trust and relationship is already there with the majority of the panel.

We are a big country with huge resources and an underage structure that most other counties would envy. We have great young footballers coming through year after year and I believe they are as good as what any other county has. We can't keep bringing up the old argument that we don't have a Peter Canavan or Stephen O'Neill anymore. They were once in a generation players and we need to let that go.

We should now let Peter, Brian and Fergal take over as most of the guys on the panel are going to be from their All Ireland winning U-21 team, then in 3-4 years time let Colin Holmes take his lads through.

At this stage it is worth a chance.

Wally (Tyrone) - 30/08/2017 12:27:16    2040690

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Mickey Harte is the Arsene Wenger of the GAA. A well respected man who has achieved a lot in the noughties and who has refused to change his beliefs and tactics to adapt to the modern game. As a manager he owes the county nothing and form the outsiders perspective unless hes willing to change tact; he should walk off into the sunset.

theblackcard (Mayo) - 30/08/2017 12:37:39    2040694

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I think after a beating like that which there wasn't even a slight silver lining. Nothing should be on or off the table in Tyrone.

Mickey Harte can do so much - this system like it or not is his brainchild, but as Jim McGuinness so often said, "alot is made of management but ultimately it has to come from the players"...I didn't see one Tyrone player get in a Dublin player face until Darren McCurry came off the bench.

Tyrone to stand any chance against the Dubs had to bring ultra aggression and spite - they didn't even so much as lay a hand legally/illegally which I think is the most extraordinary thing of the whole affair (except that cowardly kick by Colm Cavanagh) - the players surely got stage fright - I was looking at Matty Donnelly, a big lad - never got so much as a kick, Sean Cavanagh vanished altogether, Peter Harte although not being a physical presence is a symbol for Tyrone - did he even touch the ball?

That being said, Dublin are an awesome outfit - That cheering of passes on or around the 25th minute will long stick in my mind. Alot of people in Tyrone need to have a serious long look at things honestly - this could be a positive turning point, if its approached in the right way, head on and meet the challenge embraced, or it could be the start of a decline. Football looks like it's beginning to make the change back to 'traditional' styles, will Tyrone evolve with the game?

GetOverTheBar (Tyrone) - 30/08/2017 12:38:51    2040695

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Stay for one more year, then go.

oakleafersir (Derry) - 30/08/2017 12:42:24    2040696

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It's an internal matter for Tyrone but when the time comes for new leadership look no further than Peter the Great.

suckvalleypaddy (Galway) - 30/08/2017 12:53:44    2040702

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Not sure whether Mickey should stay or go but I definitely wouldn't base it on the display last weekend. For me the Tyrone players did not play anywhere near their full potential, maybe the occasion got to them. People are talking about no plan B but plan A never kicked into action. If the players had of executed plan A then that would have kept Tyrone in the game, they wouldn't have won the game but it would have been closer. Tyrone were playing great stuff this year and putting up massive scores, so its not fair to say they have no attacking plan.

You could get rid of Mickey and end up with someone worse. Look at Donegal - Banty is favourite to get the job lol. Even if someone like Canavan is appointed, the playing style would be very similar I think.

Green_Gold (Donegal) - 30/08/2017 13:13:56    2040716

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I think Mickey Harte should step down. He has nothing to prove to GAA followers, having won 3 All Ireland titles in the last decade, putting Tyrone up with the best counties.

thelongridge (Offaly) - 30/08/2017 13:32:24    2040723

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Replying To Green_Gold:  "Not sure whether Mickey should stay or go but I definitely wouldn't base it on the display last weekend. For me the Tyrone players did not play anywhere near their full potential, maybe the occasion got to them. People are talking about no plan B but plan A never kicked into action. If the players had of executed plan A then that would have kept Tyrone in the game, they wouldn't have won the game but it would have been closer. Tyrone were playing great stuff this year and putting up massive scores, so its not fair to say they have no attacking plan.

You could get rid of Mickey and end up with someone worse. Look at Donegal - Banty is favourite to get the job lol. Even if someone like Canavan is appointed, the playing style would be very similar I think."
It is a fair point that Tyrone did not play close to their potential on Sunday but on the other hand they just let Dublin waltz through them at every opportunity.

Don't get me wrong, this current Dublin side is one of the best, if not the best team to ever have played but we made them look unstoppable which I don't think they are. If you push up on their kick outs, match their intensity levels and put them under pressure by attacking their defense at every opportunity then you can cause them real problems, we did none of these as we expected our system to triumph regardless of how we actually performed individually.

I just don't believe that Mickey can take us any further. Our previous U21 Management team may play a similar style but they may also be up for trying something different. Even a new voice in the changing room can have a massive difference on the players attitude in a big game like All Ireland Semi-Finals.

Wally (Tyrone) - 30/08/2017 13:46:09    2040733

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Replying To suckvalleypaddy:  "It's an internal matter for Tyrone but when the time comes for new leadership look no further than Peter the Great."
can't see him leaving the lucrative sky job { to get travel expenses to drive 3mile to garvaghy ahem } plus he wouldn't want to step in just yet with the hysteria to keep mh. Maybe time for tony Donnelly and fergal McCann to come back as things seemed to slip when those two quit , no doubt the county will be split no matter what the outcome

bulmccabe (Tyrone) - 30/08/2017 13:53:04    2040739

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Replying To oakleafersir:  "Stay for one more year, then go."
Why?


(Not having a go and haven't made my mind up on what I think Tyrone should do, just wondering what your logic is)

cavanman47 (Cavan) - 30/08/2017 13:59:03    2040741

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Replying To bulmccabe:  "can't see him leaving the lucrative sky job { to get travel expenses to drive 3mile to garvaghy ahem } plus he wouldn't want to step in just yet with the hysteria to keep mh. Maybe time for tony Donnelly and fergal McCann to come back as things seemed to slip when those two quit , no doubt the county will be split no matter what the outcome"
Tony Donnelly and Fergal McCann left in 2014, shortly after we were comprehensively beaten by Armagh in a 2nd round qualifier in Omagh. Whatever anyone's thoughts on Mickey, you must be the only man in Tyrone who yearns for a return to those halcyon days...

Thomas Clarke (Tyrone) - 30/08/2017 16:01:25    2040799

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Too soon to say.

We won't really know how good Dublin really is until after the final. Mayo, Kerry and Tyrone are in the same bracket of ability (Tyrone were criticised last year v Mayo, but despite playing poorly enough, they still ran Mayo close, unlike v Dublin at the weekend); with Dublin some way in front of any of them. If Mayo win or at least run it close, then you can say something about a Tyrone management failing; as that would suggest that, in addition to Dublin being superb, Tyrone didn't even show up. But if Dublin also brush Mayo aside, then Mickey's position looks better as it may then be the simple case that Tyrone just met a far better team and played as well as they were let and that no manager would have achieved much different.

PS: As for all the crying about Tyrone's "system", reality is all teams have "systems"; Dublin can play ultra-defensively, the only difference is they do it much better than Tyrone these days; and as for kick passing etc, didn't Dublin have about twice as many hand-passes as Tyrone last weekend, 300 to 150?! It's more accurate to say that Tyrone were beaten by a far better team. Whether Dublin are a far better team full stop; or whether they were just a far better team on the day, well, the final will shed some light on that question.

essmac (Tyrone) - 30/08/2017 16:35:20    2040816

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Replying To essmac:  "Too soon to say.

We won't really know how good Dublin really is until after the final. Mayo, Kerry and Tyrone are in the same bracket of ability (Tyrone were criticised last year v Mayo, but despite playing poorly enough, they still ran Mayo close, unlike v Dublin at the weekend); with Dublin some way in front of any of them. If Mayo win or at least run it close, then you can say something about a Tyrone management failing; as that would suggest that, in addition to Dublin being superb, Tyrone didn't even show up. But if Dublin also brush Mayo aside, then Mickey's position looks better as it may then be the simple case that Tyrone just met a far better team and played as well as they were let and that no manager would have achieved much different.

PS: As for all the crying about Tyrone's "system", reality is all teams have "systems"; Dublin can play ultra-defensively, the only difference is they do it much better than Tyrone these days; and as for kick passing etc, didn't Dublin have about twice as many hand-passes as Tyrone last weekend, 300 to 150?! It's more accurate to say that Tyrone were beaten by a far better team. Whether Dublin are a far better team full stop; or whether they were just a far better team on the day, well, the final will shed some light on that question."
Time will indeed tell but I have little doubt that Mayo will be far closer that Tyrone were.
Now, perhaps it was an off day but they seemed completely lost as did management.
MH has been brilliant for Tyrone but perhaps it is time to move on from the style which at present seems to hinder rather than help.
The problem is it doesn't look like MH has seen that the game is moved on.

catch22 (USA) - 30/08/2017 16:54:13    2040821

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