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Open The Lid on Dublin's Finances

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Replying To KingdomBoy1: "Ah look it's just an idea is all, and I think is going to happen eventually as football dies out in the rest of the country. Des Cahill showed the subs for the dubs forwards the other day and all 6 players (2 of them former Potys) would get on every other team on the country including Kerry and Mayo . Their 3rd string team won the o'Byrne cup this year so they have the talent for 3 teams really." Let's just imagine that Dublin are split into, say, four....and every year or second year those four teams contest the AI semi-finals - would other counties then call for Dublin to further split or would they then have to take a look at their development structures etc.? Or perhaps put a cap on funding to Dublin? If Kerry were to win 2,3, or 4 All-Irelands close together again would the Kerry fans say this is not fair on the rest of the country, regardless of how their success was achieved? How many Munster titles have Kerry in comparison to Clare? Is it fair ? Should Kerry be split for the Munster championship? Why is it that people are calling for a successful team to be punished?? Does it hark back to 'everyone gets a medal' mentality? dubdec99 (Dublin) - Posts: 180 - 30/08/2017 08:42:17 2040573 Link
In reply to the OP, would it not make more sense to open the lid on all counties finances? Lots of money has been pumped into counties and clubs up and down the country over the years. With Dublin being so dominant surely it begs the question of where other counties are going wrong. A thorough review of accounts in this counties to see where income and expenditure have been wasted might just help future prospects. People keep on referring to this 'professional setup' that Dublin have with little knowledge of what such a setup entails. In the context of Irish begrudgery, a professional setup could be something as simple as the manager using a Whatsapp group to send team wide texts instead of sending individual texts on his old nokia because he finally paid a few extra quid to own a smartphone (yes I know who that particular club manager is). keithlemon (Australia) - Posts: 920 - 30/08/2017 09:44:38 2040602 Link
Replying To Laois76: "No. I'd restructure the championship into senior, intermediate and junior for a start. I wouldn't have a super 8. The county is sacrosanct to the gaa in my opinion." It's probably a discussion for a different thread, Here the emphasis is on finance, so we'll leave it neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 30/08/2017 17:05:30 2040825 Link
LETS DEAL IN FACTS, well here are the FACTS you asked for, some might be surprised or unaware at the level of money available to Dublin. 1/ SPONSORSHIP, currently Dublin earn €3.75 Million through their sponsorship deal with AIG. Previously they earned €750,000 a year from Vodafone over four years. No other county comes remotely near this figure or can ever hope to as the wealthiest & largest companies are based in Dublin. 2/ GAMES DEVELOPMENT FUNDING, in 2016 Dublin got €1.46 Million, 14% of the total. They got more than any Province combined. The next highest figure was Cork who got €249,000, this despite the fact that Cork have 33,832 registered players & Dublin have 39,197. Other counties figures for 2016 were, Galway €130,204, Leitrim €131,498, Roscommon €144,748 & the lowest was Fermanagh with €109,000. Between 2010 & 2014 Dublin got 48% of the GAA's entire Games Development Funding. The other 52% was divided between the other 31 counties plus London & New York. Director of Finance for the GAA Tom Ryan said when questioned about the imbalance, that there would be no change in the foreseeable future, bad news for all other counties. The average investment per player in Dublin is €274.70 in contrast to Donegal's €20.10 ! Dublin also have the highest number of Games Development/Coaching Officers with 60 full time & a large number of part timers also. Contrast this with Cork who have the next highest number at 10 full time staff despite Cork having 33,832 registered members & Dublin having 39,197 members. The average number in other counties is a lot less. 3/ IRISH SPORTS COUNCIL GRANT, many GAA people are completely unaware of this grant which was initiated by Bertie Ahern as Taoiseach at the time. Whilst Dublin may not receive grants for coaching from the Provincial Council they get €1Million per year from the Irish Sports Council, no other County Board gets this exclusive funding & any Provincial Funding is a miniscule figure in comparison to this. 4/ INFRASTRUCTURAL FUNDING, another poster said it was grossly unfair not to include this figure, quoting PUC development. Well Dublin use Croke Park for the vast majority of home C'ship games & rarely play away from it, it's very disingenuous to mention PUC & not Croke Park which has received the largest share of infrastructural funding in the history of the GAA & which Dublin benefit from greatly. Many of the current infrastructural projects are been done in conjunction with the RWC bid. Let's wait & see also what infrastructural funding the Spawell Complex will get from Croke Park & whether loan arrangements by Croke Park are part of the deal. Many are also unaware that the current rental turnover from the Complex is €600,000, quite a large sum of money going to Dublin GAA as the new owners. Another infrastructural project along with the Spawell Complex completely overlooked by the Dubs on here is Abbotstown. Yes it's for national use but it is going to be chiefly used by those in Dublin. Not many are going to hire buses, take a full day off, pay for food etc to go up from the West of Ireland to use it. Dublin have already been using it under Bryan Cullen using the Gym & indoor facilities. Not many people aware of that either. So infrastructural projects have been at a pace in Dublin as any other county. 5/ BARS/RESTAURANTS, having played for one north side club in the nineties, there turnover from that then exceeded what Leitrim spent in 2016. Most bars/restaurants are run as Limited Companies by the clubs & their accounts are easily accessible on Solocheck for a small fee. One club made a tax settlement with Revenue in 2013 for €101,000. The funding in my old club was mainly from the bar/restaurant at the time. The best I ever visited & credit to their club is Parnells & it is a fantastic building. moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 30/08/2017 20:38:02 2040875 Link
Continuation of previous post : There have been a few new clubs in Dublin over the recent times also, Ranelagh Gaels, Shankill GAA, Tolka Valley Harps, Samildanach GAA, which is in stark contrast to the rest of the country where clubs are folding or having to amalgamate to survive. Some clubs such as Na Fianna & Ballyboden have over 3,000 members which contrasted with Leitrim which has only 3,570 registered members. These figures are astronomical. Cuala as All Ireland club hurling champions have over 1,600 members. In conclusion, a county with a population of 1.3 Million, the greatest economic growth, the highest number of players, the highest number of coaches on the ground, the greatest number of supporters, most home games in Croke Park, most live televised games, highest rate of sponsorship, highest rate of games development funding, whose demographics ensure that the trends will continue are set to dominate. They are current All Ireland U 21 champions, have won 11 out of the last 12 Leinster titles, 4 out of the last 5 NFL titles & have won 4 out of the last six All Ireland titles with a chance v Mayo in the next few weeks, there is certainly a trend there. Most certainly the lid needs to be lifted on the finances & the GAA need to end the inequity or they will be left with counties who will have to fold. But this is what they want, the Super 8 is the advent of this but in fact they are currently creating a Super 1 & their inequitable funding proves this. I look forward to the barbs of clown, red thumbs from the green thumb gang & the usual deflection & dismissal from the Dubs & their hangers on here, water off a Ducks back. The GAA have some case to answer & some of the facts that guys asked for but didn't produce themselves even though they did analysis, lol, are clear to see above. moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 30/08/2017 20:53:07 2040882 Link
Replying To moc.dna: "Continuation of previous post : There have been a few new clubs in Dublin over the recent times also, Ranelagh Gaels, Shankill GAA, Tolka Valley Harps, Samildanach GAA, which is in stark contrast to the rest of the country where clubs are folding or having to amalgamate to survive. Some clubs such as Na Fianna & Ballyboden have over 3,000 members which contrasted with Leitrim which has only 3,570 registered members. These figures are astronomical. Cuala as All Ireland club hurling champions have over 1,600 members. In conclusion, a county with a population of 1.3 Million, the greatest economic growth, the highest number of players, the highest number of coaches on the ground, the greatest number of supporters, most home games in Croke Park, most live televised games, highest rate of sponsorship, highest rate of games development funding, whose demographics ensure that the trends will continue are set to dominate. They are current All Ireland U 21 champions, have won 11 out of the last 12 Leinster titles, 4 out of the last 5 NFL titles & have won 4 out of the last six All Ireland titles with a chance v Mayo in the next few weeks, there is certainly a trend there. Most certainly the lid needs to be lifted on the finances & the GAA need to end the inequity or they will be left with counties who will have to fold. But this is what they want, the Super 8 is the advent of this but in fact they are currently creating a Super 1 & their inequitable funding proves this. I look forward to the barbs of clown, red thumbs from the green thumb gang & the usual deflection & dismissal from the Dubs & their hangers on here, water off a Ducks back. The GAA have some case to answer & some of the facts that guys asked for but didn't produce themselves even though they did analysis, lol, are clear to see above." Your solutions?? If Galway gaa concentrated on harnessing the potential of Galway city/county, money would not be a problem. If a full back line like Galways' haven't a clue how to defend is that down to lack of AIG type sponsorship? The Faheys/Meehans 1998-2001 had no such problems! Also you've won 2 U21 all-ire titles in 2011 and 2013 and were in this year's final. Lack of players coming through?! If the senior full back line was sorted you're not far off the mark with the footballers, your hurlers are in an all-ire final. If my county team were in an all-ire senior final the last thing i'd be worryied about was Dublin gaelic football. The rural drift to urban centres...that's life. What can be done about rural areas having less people than their county towns? Have some sort of Stalinist policy in reverse and move them from the towns? Galway isn't suffering from population loss. The Corofins/Salthills aren't exactly struggling for players and having to amalgamate. You have enough resources to assemble a panel of 30 good footballers. Neither is Laois suffering in that regard. In the last 20 years our pop has grown from 68K to 84K. A lot are commuting Dubs. But in towns like Abbeyleix and Portlaoise gaa people are active on the ground getting these second generation Dubs to play hurling and football. Country clubs have to amalgamate alright. To tell you the truth in Laois having 16 decent senior football clubs is better than 24 poor ones. Is it Dublin county's fault that it has 1.3M pop? If you split Dublin you destroy the county as a gaa entity. Also a lot of current Dublin gaa players are sons of former prominent Dublin GAA men? McCaffrey, Bernard Brogan, Dean Rock, James McCarthy to name but a few. These players have a handed down tradition rather than being part of pop growth. To reiterate Kerry are going for 4 minor titles in a row. The U17 final had Tyrone v Roscommon. Kildare won 3 Leinster minor titles, 2014-16. Huge amounts of money were put into Dublin hurling too, bar the Leinster title of 2013 no huge progress was made. Certainly to the extent of dominating the game. Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 31/08/2017 04:51:48 2040972 Link
Replying To Laois76: "Between 2004 and 2009 Kerry won 4 of 6 all-ireland football titles. Between 2011 and 2016 Dublin won 4 of 6 all-ireland football titles. When Kerry won, and beat the Dubs like in 2004, 2007 and 2009 it was because the Kingdom produced lovely natural footballers. Dublin for all their population and resources just produced athletes, they weren't natural footballers. In the same way their hurlers are never described as silky or natural. However when Dublin won their recent all-irelands beating Kerry in 2011, 2013, 2015 and 2016 a lot of people didn't want to give them the credit they deserved. Few said Dublin are now producing complete, natural footballers. The 'athleticism' over skill label was still pedaled for a while. Then the common refrain from the begrudgers was they have a huge population and they bought their success. Now the population of Dublin was much the same 10 years ago when they could only produce athletes! Meath has a population of 190,000, Kildare 220,000. Posters from these counties are cribbing about the Dubs advantages, just some posters. Yet Mayo with a population of 130,000 drew with the Dubs over the last 2 years. Lost by a point in an all-ireland in 2013 and beat them in 2012. Going by recent form they'll compete well in the final. Colm O'Rourke made a point in his Sindo column that really Meath and Kildare have no excuses for not doing better. I think Kildare, at underage, are trying to address this. Double standards??" meaths population is larger because dubs moved out here. you don't see those kids in meath jerseys.... ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 31/08/2017 08:25:04 2040984 Link
Replying To arock: "You do presumably believe the GAA should be in the business of promoting - the GAA? right? How would you do that? Explain how you would abandon the current model and go with a new one that excludes the FACT that approx 30% of the population lives in Dublin? Just ignore Dublin and everything the GAA earns (from Dublin) gets 100% ploughed back in, Dublin would stlii have their own revenues because of its population. Dublin part finances the promotion of the GAA through its own funding, very few other counties do that. Every new player brings with them potentially a new family of fans, followers helping finance the whole edifice. Your model excludes Dublin and Dublin players, clubs from any kind of subvention, based on a prejudice that Dublin clubs get money - name one? I go around the country and see these huge GAA grounf=ds some exclusively and unashamdely promoting a single code - where did all that money come from? Certainly not from the local county board." 75% of the money goes to dublin 25% to the rest of the country. you make the argument for population? think about that.. the rest of the country combined has a larger population than dublin.. ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 31/08/2017 08:27:57 2040987 Link
Replying To ziggy32001: "meaths population is larger because dubs moved out here. you don't see those kids in meath jerseys...." Ok Ziggy. It's probably different with ye're long standing rivalry. My experience in Laois is they wear Dublin and Laois jersies (commuters kids). But we have a fair few playing club in Laois and in development squads. Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 31/08/2017 11:22:15 2041069 Link
'moc.dna ...I look forward to the barbs of clown, red thumbs from the green thumb gang & the usual deflection & dismissal from the Dubs & their hangers on here, water off a Ducks back.' You really think you're the upper most eschelon poster. The shining night on the white horse, the purveyor of ultimate truth. You jumped in to call me a 'brown noser' last week when i said a few friendly words to a poster. You had no idea of the context being the guardian of higher standards that you are you insulted me. Laois76 (Laois) - Posts: 1270 - 31/08/2017 11:27:30 2041072 Link
shining knight! Laois76 (Laois)* - Posts: 1270 - 31/08/2017 11:49:50 2041091 Link
Replying To ziggy32001: "75% of the money goes to dublin 25% to the rest of the country. you make the argument for population? think about that.. the rest of the country combined has a larger population than dublin.." Those aren't close to the real figures ffs Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4217 - 31/08/2017 12:55:35 2041124 Link
Replying To moc.dna: "Continuation of previous post : There have been a few new clubs in Dublin over the recent times also, Ranelagh Gaels, Shankill GAA, Tolka Valley Harps, Samildanach GAA, which is in stark contrast to the rest of the country where clubs are folding or having to amalgamate to survive. Some clubs such as Na Fianna & Ballyboden have over 3,000 members which contrasted with Leitrim which has only 3,570 registered members. These figures are astronomical. Cuala as All Ireland club hurling champions have over 1,600 members. In conclusion, a county with a population of 1.3 Million, the greatest economic growth, the highest number of players, the highest number of coaches on the ground, the greatest number of supporters, most home games in Croke Park, most live televised games, highest rate of sponsorship, highest rate of games development funding, whose demographics ensure that the trends will continue are set to dominate. They are current All Ireland U 21 champions, have won 11 out of the last 12 Leinster titles, 4 out of the last 5 NFL titles & have won 4 out of the last six All Ireland titles with a chance v Mayo in the next few weeks, there is certainly a trend there. Most certainly the lid needs to be lifted on the finances & the GAA need to end the inequity or they will be left with counties who will have to fold. But this is what they want, the Super 8 is the advent of this but in fact they are currently creating a Super 1 & their inequitable funding proves this. I look forward to the barbs of clown, red thumbs from the green thumb gang & the usual deflection & dismissal from the Dubs & their hangers on here, water off a Ducks back. The GAA have some case to answer & some of the facts that guys asked for but didn't produce themselves even though they did analysis, lol, are clear to see above." You're facts aren't water tight. The investment per person number is incorrect. A journalist I'm not being allowed to name popularised a number of these facts. His method was incorrect. He calculated the 48% number incorrectly by not taking into account the money given to Provincial councils who pay for GDOs outside Dublin. You also fail to mention that the Irish Sports council give in the region of €2.6m to the GAA outside of Dublin. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4217 - 31/08/2017 13:01:53 2041129 Link
Dublin get 14% of the GAA development fund. 28% of the Sports Council Development fund, which is a 26 counties body. Neither are all that far off being in proportion to their population numbers. Funding is administratively treated differently for Dublin to the rest of the country by these 2 organisations. Not unreasonable considering Dublin is very different to the rest of the country. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4217 - 31/08/2017 13:07:23 2041133 Link
County Dublin has a massive population, which naturally translates to Dublin GAA having a larger pool of clubs and members. So naturally in the larger GAA picture, Dublin will receive the largest portion of GAA funding. I think that is acceptable and understandable, especially considering the GAA now has a massive presence in the capital because of this funding and is competing well against rival sports. That's a positive thing. The proportional funding to Dublin GAA isn't strictly the issue, its when people realise that the outcome of that funding is a single senior team in each code, Hurling and Football. Particularly the success of the Dublin footballers has probably got peoples backs up a little, especially with reports of them living fully professional lifestyles, with perks like free apartments, free cars, meals delivered 3 times per day etc. The amount of coaching and development manpower that Dublin can apply at every level is now miles ahead of the rest of the Country, which is in part possible thanks to the amount of funding they can avail of. But in truth they got smart people in key positions within Dublin GAA and those smart people are putting the funds to good use, for the greater good of Dublin football. They collectively worked together for the greater good of their county, and I respect that and wish other Counties boards closer to home could realise the benefits of doing that. GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 31/08/2017 17:21:39 2041269 Link
Replying To Whammo86: "Those aren't close to the real figures ffs" But they're the figures he wants to believe! Just like it's gospel that the GAA tap up referees before big games to make sure they manipulate a draw the 75% figure has passed from the realm the make believe into the land of fact. What's more interesting, Dublin receive substantial but proportional to population funding or Dublin players eat cavier paid for by funds earmarked for country hospitals? MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13707 - 31/08/2017 17:39:47 2041277 Link
Replying To Laois76: "'moc.dna ...I look forward to the barbs of clown, red thumbs from the green thumb gang & the usual deflection & dismissal from the Dubs & their hangers on here, water off a Ducks back.' You really think you're the upper most eschelon poster. The shining night on the white horse, the purveyor of ultimate truth. You jumped in to call me a 'brown noser' last week when i said a few friendly words to a poster. You had no idea of the context being the guardian of higher standards that you are you insulted me." LOL. moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 31/08/2017 18:19:09 2041289 Link
Replying To Laois76: "Your solutions?? If Galway gaa concentrated on harnessing the potential of Galway city/county, money would not be a problem. If a full back line like Galways' haven't a clue how to defend is that down to lack of AIG type sponsorship? The Faheys/Meehans 1998-2001 had no such problems! Also you've won 2 U21 all-ire titles in 2011 and 2013 and were in this year's final. Lack of players coming through?! If the senior full back line was sorted you're not far off the mark with the footballers, your hurlers are in an all-ire final. If my county team were in an all-ire senior final the last thing i'd be worryied about was Dublin gaelic football. The rural drift to urban centres...that's life. What can be done about rural areas having less people than their county towns? Have some sort of Stalinist policy in reverse and move them from the towns? Galway isn't suffering from population loss. The Corofins/Salthills aren't exactly struggling for players and having to amalgamate. You have enough resources to assemble a panel of 30 good footballers. Neither is Laois suffering in that regard. In the last 20 years our pop has grown from 68K to 84K. A lot are commuting Dubs. But in towns like Abbeyleix and Portlaoise gaa people are active on the ground getting these second generation Dubs to play hurling and football. Country clubs have to amalgamate alright. To tell you the truth in Laois having 16 decent senior football clubs is better than 24 poor ones. Is it Dublin county's fault that it has 1.3M pop? If you split Dublin you destroy the county as a gaa entity. Also a lot of current Dublin gaa players are sons of former prominent Dublin GAA men? McCaffrey, Bernard Brogan, Dean Rock, James McCarthy to name but a few. These players have a handed down tradition rather than being part of pop growth. To reiterate Kerry are going for 4 minor titles in a row. The U17 final had Tyrone v Roscommon. Kildare won 3 Leinster minor titles, 2014-16. Huge amounts of money were put into Dublin hurling too, bar the Leinster title of 2013 no huge progress was made. Certainly to the extent of dominating the game." Never mentioned full back lines, wasn't equating teams performances to funding or sponsorship. Post is in relation to the inequity in funding. No mention either of splitting Dublin at any stage in any post, not sure what you were reading. Perhaps you should read it again, slowly. moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 31/08/2017 18:24:54 2041291 Link
Replying To Whammo86: "You're facts aren't water tight. The investment per person number is incorrect. A journalist I'm not being allowed to name popularised a number of these facts. His method was incorrect. He calculated the 48% number incorrectly by not taking into account the money given to Provincial councils who pay for GDOs outside Dublin. You also fail to mention that the Irish Sports council give in the region of €2.6m to the GAA outside of Dublin." It was calculated correctly & proven to be, hence it was published. As for the Irish Ports Council grant of €2.6 Million you mention, post up what County Boards, not clubs, got of this figure you mentioned. As it was Dublin county board we are talking about in the post. moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 31/08/2017 18:28:35 2041292 Link
Replying To Whammo86: "Dublin get 14% of the GAA development fund. 28% of the Sports Council Development fund, which is a 26 counties body. Neither are all that far off being in proportion to their population numbers. Funding is administratively treated differently for Dublin to the rest of the country by these 2 organisations. Not unreasonable considering Dublin is very different to the rest of the country." The 14% figure is for 2016, that figure was 48% from 2010 to 2014. What grounds are you saying that Dublin deserves to be treated differently ? moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1212 - 31/08/2017 18:31:11 2041293 Link

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